Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-17-2010, 03:43 PM   #61
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
JD, you have lost your mind! My positions are being supported across America. Both sides of you?....not so much.
Yeah, we've seen your peers:


JohnnyD is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 03:48 PM   #62
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
So how are #2 and #3 supported or are you going to vaguely group those in with people that disagree with Obama?


These numbers don't really support your argument much at all aside from the HC part. Oh, so people that don't like Obama and didn't like the HC proposal voted for the guy that's a Republican and against the HC proposal?

And you still haven't address your "Dropping Like Flies" comments that you try to continue making. It would be easy to say that the Dems see the writing on the walls and are jumping ship, if it weren't for the same number of total Republicans, in both the House and Senate combined, that are not running re-election.

Wiki has a clean layout of who's dropping out.
* Retiring Democrats (5 seats)
* Retiring Republicans (6 seats)
* Democratic incumbents (13 seats)
* Republican incumbents (12 seats)

United States Senate elections, 2010
your combining two concepts/posts. You said very clearly that the Brown win was not a reflection on Dems or Obama, the data draws a different conclusion, you decide.

The points I noted where key points Brown was running on, he was very clearly running on these. the poll data does not address it, however i would infer that less taxes = less government and that was clearly outlined in the poll.

As Far as Dems dropping like flies, I dont know of any high profile Reps dropping out, my ignorance, but the headlines the past few weeks have been filled with dems - Dodd, Dorgan, Kennedy, Bayh, . Bayh is not leaving saying he is to old, he is leaving saying things suck and I want out. I have to say that if you think this has nothing to do with Brown's win, the tea party movement or anti-Obama sentiment. Your nuts. Look at how bad this was for Repubs during the Bush years but you didnt see this kind of Exodus.

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 04:03 PM   #63
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
your combining two concepts/posts. You said very clearly that the Brown win was not a reflection on Dems or Obama, the data draws a different conclusion, you decide.
I did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Thus the problem with your argument. You assume that everyone votes based on policy and the issues. If the Presidential campaign taught us anything, it's that many people vote on sensationalism and voting against what's currently happening in the state.
JohnnyD is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 04:04 PM   #64
buckman
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
buckman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
Blog Entries: 1
Bayh is leaving to distance himself from Obama's mess.
He will be Obamas opponent come 2012 and may just run as an Independent.
buckman is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 04:12 PM   #65
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
I did?
from Johnny D -
"Also, you (and just about everyone else) have pretty consistently made the Scott Brown vote a "Vote against the Democrats" and I disagree."

The poll data suggests otherwise.

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 05:28 PM   #66
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
from Johnny D -
"Also, you (and just about everyone else) have pretty consistently made the Scott Brown vote a "Vote against the Democrats" and I disagree."

The poll data suggests otherwise.
Now you're the one combining two different concepts/posts.
JohnnyD is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 05:40 PM   #67
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
Bayh is leaving to distance himself from Obama's mess.
He will be Obamas opponent come 2012 and may just run as an Independent.
Bayh is leaving because he is a moderate in a disgustingly polar Congress. If he tries to reach across the aisle, he had to deal with the fallout from the more senior, and more liberal, Democrats. If I remember correctly, Bayh has the most votes against Obama of all Dems.

He would fail miserably in a run for President though. The way politics are run now, the White House isn't made for a moderate. He probably wouldn't hold up well through the Primaries.

We need more people in Congress like him - somewhat middle of the road representatives that aren't afraid of working with the other side. Right now, the House and Senate are a pathetic political analogy of the Red Sox and Yankees.
JohnnyD is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 06:13 PM   #68
justplugit
Registered Grandpa
iTrader: (0)
 
justplugit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east coast
Posts: 8,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Right now, the House and Senate are a pathetic political analogy of the Red Sox and Yankees.
Good analogy of the mess.

" Choose Life "
justplugit is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 06:19 PM   #69
buckman
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
buckman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
Blog Entries: 1
I thought Obama was going to bring great unity?
buckman is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 06:35 PM   #70
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
here are the stats - you draw you own conclusion, seems obvious to me
I agree, it does seem obvious...

From your report...

Quote:
56% of Massachusetts voters named health care as the most important issue. That suggests it was a big issue, but Democrat Martha Coakley actually won among those voters by a 53% to 46% margin.
So it looks like the biggest issue was health care, but Coakley actually won support from those voters....

Here's the stat that I find interesting.

Quote:
While there was a somewhat similar correlation to views about Democratic Governor Deval Patrick, there was a clear suggestion that perceptions of the governor’s performance hurt Coakley. Among those voters who approve of the president’s job performance but disapprove of the governor’s, Brown won 93% to seven percent (7%). These voters accounted for just over 15% of all voters.
Considering that Brown won with 51.8% to Coakley's 47.1%, there are plenty of stats that can explain the results.

Personally, I think the idea of those liberal Mass voters rejecting "Kennedy's seat" is a bit over rated.

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 06:45 PM   #71
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Bayh is leaving because he is a moderate in a disgustingly polar Congress. If he tries to reach across the aisle, he had to deal with the fallout from the more senior, and more liberal, Democrats. If I remember correctly, Bayh has the most votes against Obama of all Dems.
More importantly he could win his next election easily.

What should be troubling for the DNC is that he announced his plans without informing them first. He wanted out...

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 06:48 PM   #72
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
your combining two concepts/posts. You said very clearly that the Brown win was not a reflection on Dems or Obama, the data draws a different conclusion, you decide.

The points I noted where key points Brown was running on, he was very clearly running on these. the poll data does not address it, however i would infer that less taxes = less government and that was clearly outlined in the poll.
I love it...

RIJIMMY sez = the data draws a different conclusion

RIJIMMY sez = the poll data does not address it

So the facts are clear, yet to make his point he relies on his inference

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 07:20 PM   #73
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
I love it...

RIJIMMY sez = the data draws a different conclusion

RIJIMMY sez = the poll data does not address it

So the facts are clear, yet to make his point he relies on his inference

-spence
I was too distracted by his inaccurate reference to my position that I missed his comical inference that taxes = less government. So, as long as the government cuts taxes, they should be entitled to regulate every facet of my life?
JohnnyD is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 07:38 PM   #74
buckman
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
buckman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
I was too distracted by his inaccurate reference to my position that I missed his comical inference that taxes = less government. So, as long as the government cuts taxes, they should be entitled to regulate every facet of my life?
They already do. Join the "tea party". Your a better fit then you'll admit
buckman is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 07:47 PM   #75
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
They already do. Join the "tea party". Your a better fit then you'll admit
Are you a member?

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 09:00 PM   #76
buckman
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
buckman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
Are you a member?

-spence
Sure, didn't you see me in the pics. JD posted
buckman is offline  
Old 02-17-2010, 09:13 PM   #77
Backbeach Jake
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Backbeach Jake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Here and There Seasonally
Posts: 5,985
G.W. Bush's greatest accomplishment was the polarization and division of the people and legislature of the United States. He used it as a tool to get elected, but the division lives on as a cancer that prevents anything positive from getting accomplished in America. So much distrust and hatred has dragged us down to an impotent blustering, fumbling, incompetent caricature of what we once were. Negative is the daily norm, two negatives make a nothing. It's high time to just knock it the hell off and concentrate on the job at hand. That job includes us all. Who wants to live in a country with very rich vs. very poor? Other peoples failure does not make your success greater. In fact, it is to the contrary.
Backbeach Jake is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 01:06 AM   #78
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake View Post
G.W. Bush's greatest accomplishment was the polarization and division of the people and legislature of the United States. He used it as a tool to get elected, but the division lives on as a cancer that prevents anything positive from getting accomplished in America. So much distrust and hatred has dragged us down to an impotent blustering, fumbling, incompetent caricature of what we once were. Negative is the daily norm, two negatives make a nothing. It's high time to just knock it the hell off and concentrate on the job at hand. That job includes us all. Who wants to live in a country with very rich vs. very poor? Other peoples failure does not make your success greater. In fact, it is to the contrary.
How old was GW when he started this polarization? I've been around for a long time, and, as far as I can remember, the legislature has always been polarized. As for the people, when have Democrats and Republicans not hated each other (politically)? I recall my Democrat co-workers hating GW's daddy, who was kind of a nice guy, even saying and making signs at rallies that shouted "Nuke Bush!"
detbuch is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 06:33 AM   #79
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
GW Bush was a Unitifier...not a Dividifier...
scottw is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 06:53 AM   #80
The Dad Fisherman
Super Moderator
iTrader: (0)
 
The Dad Fisherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,176

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
The Dad Fisherman is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 07:33 AM   #81
Joe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 3,650
From what I've read, the Clinton Impeachment is what ratcheted up the level of polarization to what it is now.

Joe is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 07:59 AM   #82
buckman
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
buckman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
From what I've read, the Clinton Impeachment is what ratcheted up the level of polarization to what it is now.
I think you could be right Joe but if I recall the Dems effed over GB1 pretty good too.
Remember the good old days, when a lie "no new taxes" could bring down a President.
buckman is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 08:09 AM   #83
Joe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 3,650
Don't be too concerned, there was an article yesterday on the front page of the Tea Party website which alluded to the goal of impeachment.

Joe is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 08:11 AM   #84
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,188
Who was the repub. famous for his dirty tactics who ended up dying of brain cancer about 7 years ago???

I just shook my head when one of the complaints/examples of hypocrisy voiced by Bayh was of the 7 repubs. who co-sponsored the recent deficit reduction bill and then actually voted against it.
PaulS is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 08:22 AM   #85
buckman
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
buckman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Who was the repub. famous for his dirty tactics who ended up dying of brain cancer about 7 years ago???

I just shook my head when one of the complaints/examples of hypocrisy voiced by Bayh was of the 7 repubs. who co-sponsored the recent deficit reduction bill and then actually voted against it.
Reminds me of Obama voting for Bush's budgets and then saying he inherited Bush's deficit. Especially when the Dems controlled things during those years.
buckman is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 08:48 AM   #86
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
I love it...

RIJIMMY sez = the data draws a different conclusion

RIJIMMY sez = the poll data does not address it

So the facts are clear, yet to make his point he relies on his inference

-spence
F'in stupidity, if you and Johnny cant follow a logical discussion, dont waste my time. Brown had issues he was running on..period. The poll has data...period. Some of Browns running points were addressed as key MA issues in the poll, others were not. I noted which where addressed and which were not. Has nothing to do with my opinion. I clearly separated them. as I said twice, now 3 TIMES. you draw your own conclusion. the data is there......

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 09:32 AM   #87
fishbones
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
fishbones's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Easton, MA
Posts: 5,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
F'in stupidity, if you and Johnny cant follow a logical discussion, dont waste my time. Brown had issues he was running on..period. The poll has data...period. Some of Browns running points were addressed as key MA issues in the poll, others were not. I noted which where addressed and which were not. Has nothing to do with my opinion. I clearly separated them. as I said twice, now 3 TIMES. you draw your own conclusion. the data is there......
I don't think it's a matter of stupidity with JD and Spence. Spence just likes to play devil's advocate. You know he's actually not all that liberal. He likes a good debate and when proven wrong, he stops visiting the thread. It happens all the time, when he runs out of ways to spin his argument.
With JD, he just can't accept when he's been proven wrong. If he sees that someone's getting the upper hand, he makes personal attacks on their intelligence. I guess when you think you're the smartest person in the room, you feel entitled to act like it. Wait a second, I jsut realized that describes our current President to a tee.

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
fishbones is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 10:31 AM   #88
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
I don't think it's a matter of stupidity with JD and Spence. Spence just likes to play devil's advocate. You know he's actually not all that liberal. He likes a good debate and when proven wrong, he stops visiting the thread. It happens all the time, when he runs out of ways to spin his argument.
This is utter nonsense.

I have demonstrated a consistent ability to keep mindless political threads going longer than perhaps anyone else on the site

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 10:35 AM   #89
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
I think you could be right Joe but if I recall the Dems effed over GB1 pretty good too.
Remember the good old days, when a lie "no new taxes" could bring down a President.
Bush 41 made a massive flip flop and couldn't spin it as he had no charisma...you can't say the Dem's were out of line here, the issue was with the voters.

From what I've read the difference in tone started in the House under Clinton. Certainly there has always been intense partisanship, but pre-Clinton Republicans and Democrats were often friends and would go have a drink after a good fight on the floor.

Today, your party leadership will chastise you for fraternizing with the enemy.

I blame Tom Delay and Newt Gingrich.

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 02-18-2010, 11:07 AM   #90
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
With JD, he just can't accept when he's been proven wrong. If he sees that someone's getting the upper hand, he makes personal attacks on their intelligence. I guess when you think you're the smartest person in the room, you feel entitled to act like it. Wait a second, I jsut realized that describes our current President to a tee.
The irony of the above if amusing. I've yet to make a personal attack that wasn't in reciprocation. I'm sure it'll be easy to quote some of my posts here out of context to 'prove' the contrary. Then there is you who chooses to chime in and make consistent personal attacks and criticisms of me that are completely unprovoked. I guess when you're arrogant, you feel entitled to act however you see fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY
F'in stupidity, if you and Johnny cant follow a logical discussion, dont waste my time. Brown had issues he was running on..period. The poll has data...period. Some of Browns running points were addressed as key MA issues in the poll, others were not. I noted which where addressed and which were not. Has nothing to do with my opinion. I clearly separated them. as I said twice, now 3 TIMES. you draw your own conclusion. the data is there......
A logical discussion? You mean make a point, then find a poll and say that it supports your point, and then say that the poll doesn't address everything and we should draw our own opinions? But then "less taxes = less government" for some reason so the poll did include everything.

However, it all comes down to your original point:
Quote:
from Johnny D -
"Also, you (and just about everyone else) have pretty consistently made the Scott Brown vote a "Vote against the Democrats" and I disagree."

The poll data suggests otherwise.
...which I still disagree with.

The poll data demonstrates correlation but gives no suggestions for causation. As such, the poll data suggests the tendencies of voters but not the reason behind their votes.
JohnnyD is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com