Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 02-17-2011, 04:48 PM   #1
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Anyone following what's going on in Wisconsin?

To me, what the Dems are doing here is cowardly, cry-baby obstructionism. Should generate some interesting debate! God forbid teachers pay 14% of healthcare costs (everyone else pays 30% - 40%).

Missing Wisconsin Democrats Who Skipped Anti-Union Vote Left the State, Senator Says - FoxNews.com

I thought elections had consequences? That's what all the Dems were saying aftre 2008?
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 02-17-2011, 06:45 PM   #2
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
And I've had all I can take with these unbelievably greedy teachers acting as if they are taking a vow of poverty for the good of the kids. The Gov of Wisconsin is asking that teachers increase the portion of their healthcare plans to 12.6 percent, WHICH IS LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT THE AVERAGE TAXPAYER IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR PAYS for their healthcare.

In other words, the governor is proposing that teachers pay HALF AS MUCH for their healthcare as the rest of us, and - GASP! - the teachers are all calling in sick, forcing schools to close.

Tell me again why I'd be wrong for calling these teachers blood-s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g parasites? They're not willing to pay HALF of what everyone else has to pay?

And these legislators get to flee the state, and presumably still get paid for their services? And Republicans get called obstructionists?
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 02-17-2011, 07:23 PM   #3
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
To me, what the Dems are doing here is cowardly, cry-baby obstructionism. Should generate some interesting debate! God forbid teachers pay 14% of healthcare costs (everyone else pays 30% - 40%).

Missing Wisconsin Democrats Who Skipped Anti-Union Vote Left the State, Senator Says - FoxNews.com

I thought elections had consequences? That's what all the Dems were saying aftre 2008?
The dems are doing what their voter-base wants.

The best line I heard from this:
Union Person: We're going to have our voices heard come the next election. These officials will be put out of office because of this.
The Republican Response: We feel as though the voters got their point across on November 2 when they elected us to fix these problems because the Democrats weren't.

We've gotten into many long threads about the Unions. I'll be very interested in what comes from this. Wisconsin isn't the only place that this is happening - New York, New Jersey and a few others are putting together similar actions, with some Democratic support in many of those cases.
JohnnyD is offline  
Old 02-17-2011, 07:29 PM   #4
striperman36
Old Guy
iTrader: (0)
 
striperman36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 8,760
I'll take a matching, insurance raise, come on, let's get a reality check for the rest of commercial business.
striperman36 is offline  
Old 02-17-2011, 08:30 PM   #5
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
The dems are doing what their voter-base wants.

The best line I heard from this:
Union Person: We're going to have our voices heard come the next election. These officials will be put out of office because of this.
The Republican Response: We feel as though the voters got their point across on November 2 when they elected us to fix these problems because the Democrats weren't.

We've gotten into many long threads about the Unions. I'll be very interested in what comes from this. Wisconsin isn't the only place that this is happening - New York, New Jersey and a few others are putting together similar actions, with some Democratic support in many of those cases.
"The dems are doing what their voter-base wants."

BBut why do liberals, unless they are in a union, want to be taxed into oblivion so that a few folks can get rich?

I'd love anyone here who supports the union workers, to answer ONE question...Given the economic situation where are all on, how can unionized employees complain about paying less than half of what everyone else pays? Why do unionized employees deserve such preferential treatment.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 02-17-2011, 08:39 PM   #6
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
The dems are doing what their voter-base wants.

The best line I heard from this:
Union Person: We're going to have our voices heard come the next election. These officials will be put out of office because of this.
The Republican Response: We feel as though the voters got their point across on November 2 when they elected us to fix these problems because the Democrats weren't.

We've gotten into many long threads about the Unions. I'll be very interested in what comes from this. Wisconsin isn't the only place that this is happening - New York, New Jersey and a few others are putting together similar actions, with some Democratic support in many of those cases.
Another thing Johnny? I know you have the respect of many here (including me), and I know you own your own business. If your employees got together and said "Johnny, we demand that you give us pensions for life, and we're only willing to pay 0.2% of the cost, so you pay the other 99.8%. We also want health insurance, wnd we're only willing to pay 6% of the cost, so you pay the other 94%">

Could you absorb that cost? Would you be able to pass that cost onto your customers? I didn't catch what type of business you own, so maybe it's not applicable to you, but I'm curious...
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 07:58 AM   #7
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
The dems are doing what their voter-base wants.
they all hopped on a bus and left the state...this is hilarious...I guess their voters want them to leave?

we will enjoy two years of this class warfare and public sector and union thug unrest from the "ME PARTY" until the Community Organizer is reelected...
scottw is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:17 AM   #8
Fly Rod
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Fly Rod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gloucester Massachusetts
Posts: 2,678
Only one word for the democrats of Wisconsin,

"COWARDS!"
Fly Rod is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:30 AM   #9
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Rod View Post
Only one word for the democrats of Wisconsin,

"COWARDS!"
You left out selfish.

They can balance their budget without raising taxes, if the unions would be willing to pay half as much for their benefits as everyone else.

And they respond by throwing a tantrum.

I agree that the proposed bill is unfair, because I don't see why unionized workers shouldn't pay THE SAME as everyone else. Why should the taxpayers bear that burden? Anyone?
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 09:49 AM   #10
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
"The dems are doing what their voter-base wants."

BBut why do liberals, unless they are in a union, want to be taxed into oblivion so that a few folks can get rich?

I'd love anyone here who supports the union workers, to answer ONE question...Given the economic situation where are all on, how can unionized employees complain about paying less than half of what everyone else pays? Why do unionized employees deserve such preferential treatment.
Unless specifically stated, everything below is just my opinion from observations and educated guesswork. This is going to be a long one, so sorry in advance.

I believe there are two main groups in play that contribute to the large number of people that are supporting the unions:
1. The "What about the children?" group. This group (I'm speculating) consists of your cliche 'bleeding-heart liberals', non-property owners and, to be expected, people with children.
These people feel as though teachers make major sacrifices in their lives "because they care about the kids." They don't look at the big picture - in some areas (like WI) teachers are paid less than average *but* receive killer benefits, the pension, shorter work days and other contract-dictated protections.

2. The anti-establishment group. These are your typical Democrat that believes Unions protect 'the little guy'. My guess is that this group consists mostly of middle income people, may or may not own a home or younger folks especially college age or just after college. This group believes that the towns (and all businesses) will abuse the little guy at ever chance they can get. The mindset of these people is (and this was actually said to me yesterday when I told them I'm anti-Union): "Well, I hope you get stuck in some non-Union job in the private sector and your boss walks in one day and tells everyone they are cutting pay by 50% across the board." When I asked for an example of this ever happening, I was told "You just don't get it."
Essentially, I consider this group misguided. They have a philosophical difference from me. To argue with them and try to change their opinion would be as futile as debating with someone why my religion is better than yours. Unless there is an epiphany, philosophical differences won't be resolved.

There are a few commonalities between both these groups. They are small picture type of people, tunnel-visioned on only the exact subject at hand without looking at the broader ramifications. They don't think "how are we going to pay for this?". They don't understand why using today's employees to pay yesteryear's retirees
is unsustainable. More likely than not, they don't understand how a pension works or what the dollar-value is on the Cadillac plans these Unions argue for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Another thing Johnny? I know you have the respect of many here (including me), and I know you own your own business. If your employees got together and said "Johnny, we demand that you give us pensions for life, and we're only willing to pay 0.2% of the cost, so you pay the other 99.8%. We also want health insurance, wnd we're only willing to pay 6% of the cost, so you pay the other 94%">

Could you absorb that cost? Would you be able to pass that cost onto your customers? I didn't catch what type of business you own, so maybe it's not applicable to you, but I'm curious...
I don't deserve any more respect than the next guy.

To your question, I'd fire all of them. Done. Looking at that large an increase in overhead, I'd keep only my managerial staff and subcontract all the other positions because it would be cheaper. Then I'd tell the staff remaining that if they wanted to pull that crap, they're the next ones gone. Legal? Very questionable, but it sure as hell would get the point across. Most of my staff gets paid better and with more schedule flexibility (8hr day inc. paid lunch, rarely a 'no' if they ask to leave early, never asked to try to come in during bad weather) than any of my competitors pay and they know it.

Loyalty and paying for high quality and excellent service has gone away in my industry. As such, any additional costs have to be absorbed.
JohnnyD is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:46 AM   #11
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
[QUOTE=JohnnyD;837903]Unless specifically stated, everything below is just my opinion from observations and educated guesswork. This is going to be a long one, so sorry in advance.

I believe there are two main groups in play that contribute to the large number of people that are supporting the unions:


one more...politicians that are afraid of losing their base of support or having them show up on the lawn of their home terrorizing their family.....great analysis JD

hey, there was a story here yesterday of an ambulance co. that was having to lay off a slew of workers because of reductions in either medicare or medicaid reimbursements, can't remember which...are you affected by cuts like those with your operation?
scottw is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:57 AM   #12
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
File this under the category of "you cannot make this up".

Turns out the 14 Democratic senators who fled the state (remember, they fled the state because they were opposed to these union cuts) are staying in a hotel in Illinois.

THEY ARE STAYING IN A NON-UNION HOTEL.

In other words, when these azzholes are spending their own money, they have no intention of absorbing the cost of insane union demands. But these SAME JERKS think all of the taxpayers should be forced to pay that which these clowns won't pay themselves.

Nancy Peolisi is siding with the unions. Nancy Pelosi owns vineyards and hotels in California, zero of which are unionozed.

And I get criticized for saying liberalism is a mental disorder.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 11:03 AM   #13
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
one more...politicians that are afraid of losing their base of support or having them show up on the lawn of their home terrorizing their family.....great analysis JD
Honestly, I don't even bother considering politicians. They will do/say whatever they need to in order to appease their voting base. None of them have any backbones... not a single one.

Quote:
hey, there was a story here yesterday of an ambulance co. that was having to lay off a slew of workers because of reductions in either medicare or medicaid reimbursements, can't remember which...are you affected by cuts like those with your operation?
Haven't been on an ambulance in almost 2 years. I keep my emt credentials current, do continuing education and things like that as a fallback plan should anything happen with my company. Turnover is typically high at ambulance companies so it's pretty easy to find a job with at least one of the 4-5 companies in the area.

Costs me up to $500/year to keep my credentials current and 50 hours of classroom time but I consider it a small price to pay to have a fall back plan should the s#$% hit the fan and I need new employment or to pick up a second job.
JohnnyD is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 11:28 AM   #14
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Honestly, I don't even bother considering politicians. They will do/say whatever they need to in order to appease their voting base. None of them have any backbones... not a single one.


Haven't been on an ambulance in almost 2 years. I keep my emt credentials current, do continuing education and things like that as a fallback plan should anything happen with my company. Turnover is typically high at ambulance companies so it's pretty easy to find a job with at least one of the 4-5 companies in the area.

Costs me up to $500/year to keep my credentials current and 50 hours of classroom time but I consider it a small price to pay to have a fall back plan should the s#$% hit the fan and I need new employment or to pick up a second job.
oh, I was under the impression that your company was an ambulance co.
scottw is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 01:13 PM   #15
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 10,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
I agree that the proposed bill is unfair, because I don't see why unionized workers shouldn't pay THE SAME as everyone else. Why should the taxpayers bear that burden? Anyone?
Should they pay more? sure.
Should they lose their right to collective bargining? No. that is the crux of this right now. Funny how the police and fire unions were conviniently left out this time around....

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
RIROCKHOUND is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 01:21 PM   #16
Fly Rod
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Fly Rod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gloucester Massachusetts
Posts: 2,678
"Assault on the unions." spoken once again from a great intellect.

Guess who.

Here is a hint: Spoke out aganist Cambridge police.

He can not balance his own budget, why would he want to speak out aganist the Gov. of Wiscosin?

On another note, It is illegal for teachers and firemen to be protesting on strike in Wisconsin. Fire any teachers or firemen that do not have a letter from their doctor stating that they were sick.

No school, "they really are in it for the kids." Oh really.

Governor and legislators should hang tuff.
Fly Rod is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 03:01 PM   #17
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
Should they pay more? sure.
Should they lose their right to collective bargining? No. that is the crux of this right now. Funny how the police and fire unions were conviniently left out this time around....
"Should they lose their right to collective bargining? No."

There is no consensus in this country that we have a fundamental right to collective bargaining.

"that is the crux of this right now."

The hell it is. The unions are screaming that the proposed cuts (excluding the loss of CB) are too stiff.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 04:05 PM   #18
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 10,349
Fine, let use the cost angle alone.

You love to use the analogy of the increasing taxes to pay for the unions and public workers you clearly demise. Joe taxpayer has a budget, then his taxes double and he can't afford his house anymore, sound familiar?

Lets flip the coin. These people have budgets and expenses etc.. and the govenor et al., want that to change significantly, drasticly increasing their costs to what you pay in the private sector. (FWIW, We have family benefits from a private insurer. We don't pay anywhere near 30-40% of health care costs. When my son was born the largest bill was for the cable in the hospital room.)

How do you expect the teachers to react? Oh no problem, we'll jump onboard. No, they will try and fight for what they percieve to be right. I forgot, your wife, when she goes back to taching will take the pension in the meantime because it is whats best for your family, while lobbying for it to change to a 401K.

I'm not saying either side is right, but it doesn't make either side wrong. Joe blow losing his house because taxes went up, ot Joe teacher losing their house because their health care costs went up.

then again, all those teachers are rich grady-white owning scam artists anyways

have a good weekend.

And JohhnyD, I like your posts, but if you really believe most teachers work shorter days, comeone... less days, yes, shorter, not really, and I'm a property owning, kid having left center liberal, where does that put me?

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
RIROCKHOUND is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 05:55 PM   #19
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
no idea where to even start with that one but I think they're being asked to pay 12% of their hc premiums and contribute to their pensions....draconian

I think Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton just showed up...it's not a real protest till they arrive.....

Last edited by scottw; 02-18-2011 at 06:00 PM..
scottw is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 06:55 PM   #20
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
Fine, let use the cost angle alone.

You love to use the analogy of the increasing taxes to pay for the unions and public workers you clearly demise. Joe taxpayer has a budget, then his taxes double and he can't afford his house anymore, sound familiar?

Lets flip the coin. These people have budgets and expenses etc.. and the govenor et al., want that to change significantly, drasticly increasing their costs to what you pay in the private sector. (FWIW, We have family benefits from a private insurer. We don't pay anywhere near 30-40% of health care costs. When my son was born the largest bill was for the cable in the hospital room.)

How do you expect the teachers to react? Oh no problem, we'll jump onboard. No, they will try and fight for what they percieve to be right. I forgot, your wife, when she goes back to taching will take the pension in the meantime because it is whats best for your family, while lobbying for it to change to a 401K.

I'm not saying either side is right, but it doesn't make either side wrong. Joe blow losing his house because taxes went up, ot Joe teacher losing their house because their health care costs went up.

then again, all those teachers are rich grady-white owning scam artists anyways

have a good weekend.

And JohhnyD, I like your posts, but if you really believe most teachers work shorter days, comeone... less days, yes, shorter, not really, and I'm a property owning, kid having left center liberal, where does that put me?
"You love to use the analogy of the increasing taxes to pay for the unions and public workers"

It's not an analogy, that's literally what happens. Where do you think the money comes from to pay for these benefits?

"We don't pay anywhere near 30-40% of health care costs. When my son was born the largest bill was for the cable in the hospital room.)"

You need to get the facts. No one is saying that folks in the private sector pay a 30% co-pay. But we do pay 30% of the cost of our healthcare insurance policy through work. That's what we're talking about. We pay 30% of the premiums, teachers in WI pay 6%. That's fair!!

"How do you expect the teachers to react?"

(1) I expect them to show up for work the next day, or make room for those who will
(2) I expect them to thank their lucky starts that the proposal still only asks them to pay half what everyone else pays
(3) I expect them to thank their lucky stars that they still have pensions, which no one else has
(4) I expect them to say, "gee, you all went through this same thing 15 years ago? Now I almost know how you feel, but not quite, since I still have tenure, a pension, I'm still exempt from social security...

"I forgot, your wife, when she goes back to taching will take the pension in the meantime because it is whats best for your family, while lobbying for it to change to a 401K. "

You're damn right we'll lobby for 401(k)'s. That's clearly what's right, and in Wisconsin, these cuts are what the public voted for. That's what we call "democracy", you see. Although, she probably won't go back.

The Republicans did not like Sonia Sotomayor, so they asked her tough questions during her hearings. They didn't sabotage the democratic process. Yet they were still called "obstructionists" by lefty morons.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 06:56 PM   #21
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
no idea where to even start with that one but I think they're being asked to pay 12% of their hc premiums and contribute to their pensions....draconian

.....
Yeah, I thought Lincoln freed the salves????
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:48 PM   #22
Fly Rod
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Fly Rod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gloucester Massachusetts
Posts: 2,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
Fine, let use the cost angle alone.

You love to use the analogy of the increasing taxes to pay for the unions and public workers you clearly demise. Joe taxpayer has a budget, then his taxes double and he can't afford his house anymore, sound familiar?

Lets flip the coin. These people have budgets and expenses etc.. and the govenor et al., want that to change significantly, drasticly increasing their costs to what you pay in the private sector. (FWIW, We have family benefits from a private insurer. We don't pay anywhere near 30-40% of health care costs. When my son was born the largest bill was for the cable in the hospital room.)

How do you expect the teachers to react? Oh no problem, we'll jump onboard. No, they will try and fight for what they percieve to be right. I forgot, your wife, when she goes back to taching will take the pension in the meantime because it is whats best for your family, while lobbying for it to change to a 401K.

I'm not saying either side is right, but it doesn't make either side wrong. Joe blow losing his house because taxes went up, ot Joe teacher losing their house because their health care costs went up.

then again, all those teachers are rich grady-white owning scam artists anyways

have a good weekend.

And JohhnyD, I like your posts, but if you really believe most teachers work shorter days, comeone... less days, yes, shorter, not really, and I'm a property owning, kid having left center liberal, where does that put me?
I do not know where you live, but, a teacher is not losing their home where I live and properties are not cheap here. The teachers here go to a 2nd job for the summer, at least those that want to work.

I exspect them to act sencesibily. When most Americans in the private sector pays 60/40 for health insurence, they should have no qualms paying 12-14 percent.

I do not pay 30-40 percent either, the company that I work for pays the whole premium, I do pay the first 1,000.00 of a hospital bill visit and the insurence pays everything else the rest of the year. My first visit this year cost 6,000, I paid the 1,000, my second visit the other day was 3,000.

In Wisconsin the average pay is 68,000 and with benifits is 86,000 not bad for 180 days. When I went to school 180 days is a half year, maybe you use modern math today.

I have expenses also and I do not sleep on the job for 24 hours like a fireman and then go to my day job for the next three days before retuning to my fire job get hurt on the day job and claim it on my city job.
Fly Rod is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:57 PM   #23
Fly Rod
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Fly Rod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gloucester Massachusetts
Posts: 2,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
You left out selfish.
No!, I did not leave out selfish.

I was talking about the dems, they are Cowards.

Yes!, the workers are selfish.
Fly Rod is offline  
Old 02-18-2011, 09:39 PM   #24
stcroixman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warwick
Posts: 541
Dylan - the times they are a changin'- what is interesting is that changes must aand will be made.

Preliminary observation on my part - Democrats not facing reality and Republicans coming on too heavy could ruin a great game plan.

Republicans could score big if they soften their edge by 25%

Democrats have too big an adjustment to make on this IMO.
stcroixman is offline  
Old 02-19-2011, 06:37 AM   #25
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
absolutely, the good thing is that we are having this conversation and all is on display, I hope that they show up at every capitol and state their grievances and one by one we can bring the contracts in line with the reality of the rest of the country and decrease the power held by the unions over the various levels of government, it won't be easy, might get ugly but these things need to be addresssed, people are going to be upset but there is just no way to continue to fund these benefits and entitlements as constituted....and the Justice Brothers will have something to keep them busy
scottw is offline  
Old 02-19-2011, 06:46 AM   #26
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Rod View Post
I do not pay 30-40 percent either, the company that I work for pays the whole premium, I do pay the first 1,000.00 of a hospital bill visit and the insurence pays everything else the rest of the year. My first visit this year cost 6,000, I paid the 1,000, my second visit the other day was 3,000.

In Wisconsin the average pay is 68,000 and with benifits is 86,000 not bad for 180 days. When I went to school 180 days is a half year, maybe you use modern math today.

I have expenses also and I do not sleep on the job for 24 hours like a fireman and then go to my day job for the next three days before retuning to my fire job get hurt on the day job and claim it on my city job.
your company factors the cost of insuring you into your total compensation...you might recieve a larger salary if you were not being insured, these teachers etc. don't look at it that way in my opinion, it is an entitlement to them, they rarely talk about total compensation...only the salary...they just expect full health benefits with little or no out-of-pocket on their behalf and expect a pension payment till they depart

the figures that I read were average teacher salary $56,594.61 ...on benefits there was a discrepancy between what the state reported and the schools but it was either around 32k(According to William Johnston, the district’s executive director of business, teachers during the 2008-09 school year received an average of $31,507.97 in benefits, an $11,000-plus discrepancy compared with state data....
or 42k(According to Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction data, the average fringe benefit for Unified teachers was worth $42,666 )...
so total average teacher compensation is/was about 90-100k

please browse these numbers...imagine if every city and town published these???? total cash compensation is mind bogglingEmployees Salaries Lookup
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1c23e1c8f6a45b4254769969132f9cbd.jpg
Views:	427
Size:	123.8 KB
ID:	44630   Click image for larger version

Name:	1237.jpg
Views:	426
Size:	364.4 KB
ID:	44635  

Last edited by scottw; 02-19-2011 at 10:26 AM..
scottw is offline  
Old 02-19-2011, 03:41 PM   #27
TheSpecialist
Hardcore Equipment Tester
iTrader: (0)
 
TheSpecialist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Abington, MA
Posts: 6,234
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
"The dems are doing what their voter-base wants."

BBut why do liberals, unless they are in a union, want to be taxed into oblivion so that a few folks can get rich?

I'd love anyone here who supports the union workers, to answer ONE question...Given the economic situation where are all on, how can unionized employees complain about paying less than half of what everyone else pays? Why do unionized employees deserve such preferential treatment.
First no one in a union is getting rich.

Second instead of all of this anger towards union employees, whether public sector of private sector for what they have, shouldn't you all be saying if they can get it, why shouldn't I ?

Bent Rods and Screaming Reels!

Spot NAZI
TheSpecialist is offline  
Old 02-19-2011, 03:50 PM   #28
TheSpecialist
Hardcore Equipment Tester
iTrader: (0)
 
TheSpecialist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Abington, MA
Posts: 6,234
Blog Entries: 1
Just out of curiosity, if all of this taxes goes to employees and benefits how is everything else payed for?
Are you for Social Security?

Are you for Medicaid? Are you for public assistance?

Bent Rods and Screaming Reels!

Spot NAZI
TheSpecialist is offline  
Old 02-19-2011, 05:42 PM   #29
TheSpecialist
Hardcore Equipment Tester
iTrader: (0)
 
TheSpecialist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Abington, MA
Posts: 6,234
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
your company factors the cost of insuring you into your total compensation...you might recieve a larger salary if you were not being insured, these teachers etc. don't look at it that way in my opinion, it is an entitlement to them, they rarely talk about total compensation...only the salary...they just expect full health benefits with little or no out-of-pocket on their behalf and expect a pension payment till they depart

the figures that I read were average teacher salary $56,594.61 ...on benefits there was a discrepancy between what the state reported and the schools but it was either around 32k(According to William Johnston, the district’s executive director of business, teachers during the 2008-09 school year received an average of $31,507.97 in benefits, an $11,000-plus discrepancy compared with state data....
or 42k(According to Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction data, the average fringe benefit for Unified teachers was worth $42,666 )...
so total average teacher compensation is/was about 90-100k

please browse these numbers...imagine if every city and town published these???? total cash compensation is mind bogglingEmployees Salaries Lookup

Buying just think if they got rid of buying back accrued sick time on retirement how much that would save?

Bent Rods and Screaming Reels!

Spot NAZI
TheSpecialist is offline  
Old 02-19-2011, 06:09 PM   #30
179
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
179's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Outer Banks NC, Charlestown RI
Posts: 1,053
What is going on in Wisconsin will soon be brought to RI, these unions are killing the states and must be brought down. The problem is there are few politicians willing to take the incredible media assault that will surely follow. For you bleeding heart liberals who think teachers are underpayed figure out their hourly rate based on a F/T job with more that 3-months off.

If I were Governor I would give these Teachers one more chance to get back to work or they are suspended without pay, don't like that then you are fired! The same could be said for the Union bought and payed for Democrat Representatives.
179 is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com