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Old 02-21-2011, 04:07 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
(the more liberal, the better) and liberal causes like Planned Parenthood?
Jim,
You're improving.
page 3 before you took the abortion u-turn

Bryan

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Old 02-21-2011, 04:27 PM   #92
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Jim,
You're improving.
page 3 before you took the abortion u-turn

I can't give him crap though because he and I are on the same page when it comes to the ridiculousness of Unions.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:29 PM   #93
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What is going on in Wisconsin is just the beginning of a sort of class warfare arising between unionized gov't workers and the private sector. Much has changed in the private sector even before the 2008 economic crash in terms of job loss, wage freezes and reductions, and reduced benefits (or increased personal contribution to benefits) in the private sector.

People in the private sector no longer wish to pay taxes for benefits that they cannot afford for themselves. A friend said to me (on another website), "Don't forget gov't employees pay taxes too!" However, this is not the point, it's like two guys pay a $5 cover charge to enter a nightclub and for one guy (union) it's an open bar and the other guy (private) still has to pay for every drink.

Some statistics from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

2010, median earnings of unionized government workers were 25% higher than earnings of private workers and 17% higher than non-unionized gov’t workers. (and yes, I've heard the questionable argument about adjusting for education levels)

95% of unionized gov’t workers have a defined benefit pension plan compared to only 21% of private sector workers -- over 4 times as many! Defined plans can be worth many 10's of thousands of dollars lifetime, depending on wage scale.

Health and dental plans: Unioned gov’t workers (95% and 71% respectively). Private sector workers (71% and 46% respectively).

Further, private sector workers (when they do have such benefits) typically have to contribute more into the plan than unionized gov't workers.

Finally, another argument that pro-union gov't workers tout is that many gov't workers do not qualify for social security (this varies from state to state). However, those who don't qualify never paid in FICA! Would I love to have not paid in FICA for the last 35 years and put that into personal retirement plan? You damned straight I would.

I hope the Governor of Wisconsin shuts those unions down..and would love to see major reform in the "commonwealth" of Massachusetts.

Last edited by Sweetwater; 02-21-2011 at 04:54 PM..

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Old 02-21-2011, 04:55 PM   #94
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and would love to see major reform in the "commonwealth" of Massachusetts.
Will never, ever happen. The state and towns will go bankrupt, yet still not see a need for changes.

Nice post Paul.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:28 PM   #95
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Will never, ever happen. The state and towns will go bankrupt, yet still not see a need for changes.
JohnnyD, when did you become so cynical?

I'm counting on your generation to march on Beacon Hill and fight for change!

By the way, I just read that Guitarist Tom Morello (Rage Against the Machine) called Governor Walker "the Mubarak of the Midwest." Now, let's see, Mubarak enriched himself on the backs of everyday workers and afforded his small, elite group of friends benefits not available to others. So, I ask you, who looks more like Mubarak, the governor or the unions?

Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:57 PM   #96
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JohnnyD, when did you become so cynical?

I'm counting on your generation to march on Beacon Hill and fight for change!

By the way, I just read that Guitarist Tom Morello (Rage Against the Machine) called Governor Walker "the Mubarak of the Midwest." Now, let's see, Mubarak enriched himself on the backs of everyday workers and afforded his small, elite group of friends benefits not available to others. So, I ask you, who looks more like Mubarak, the governor or the unions?
Being a rockstar doesn't make you an authority on anything, I wish Bono would realize that. Unfortunately, you have the MTV generation who thinks that just because a person is on tv, that they know what they're talking about.

When a celebrity speaks, the Sheeple will follow.

You know me well enough, I've always been cynical. People are lazy and unless their their hand is forced, nothing will change. The British had to lay of 100,000 government workers. Why? Not because they foresaw problems, but because they were out of money.
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:37 PM   #97
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Jim,
You're improving.
page 3 before you took the abortion u-turn
If I get banned from this board, so be it, I'm tired of this dance...

Rockhound, instead of changing the subject, how about answering my god-damned question? Is that too much to ask?

Yeah, I know, I get worked up about silly little things like the whosale slaughter of 4000 babies a day. I'm always making something out of nothing.

Since you didn't even attempt to address the question I asked, I'll take that to mean you have no answer. Because no one should have their pay involuntarily confiscated and given to political causes that are contrary to your ethics.
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:41 PM   #98
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People in the private sector no longer wish to pay taxes for benefits that they cannot afford for themselves. :
Bingo.

These unions like collecvtive bargaining? Really?

I have news for them. The taxpayers of Wisonsin did some collective bargaining of their own last November, it was called an "election". The majority of the citizenry voted for the party who said they would cut union benefits, and guess what, that's what they're doing.

What's good for the goose...

Hey Mass. isn't that hopeless, they elected Scott Brown, right?
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:44 PM   #99
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\
Hey Mass. isn't that hopeless, they elected Scott Brown, right?
What's he turning into now.. Book Deal, Major Speaking bucks, Insider Deals. They all turn into trough feeding plutocrats, living off the sheeple
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:45 PM   #100
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Bingo.

These unions like collecvtive bargaining? Really?

I have news for them. The taxpayers of Wisonsin did some collective bargaining of their own last November, it was called an "election
Two thumbs up to Jim!!

Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn.
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:16 AM   #101
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If I get banned from this board, so be it, I'm tired of this dance...Rockhound, instead of changing the subject, how about answering my god-damned question? Is that too much to ask?
What question? For the record, you changed the subject with the leap between union dues and planned parenthood

Unions typically fund those that help the unions. Just like the Koch give money to those that support their causes. Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood?

Seriously, you're like arguing with the dog from Up, but instead of getting distracted by a squirrel, it's the 'Abortion' right turn.

Do I think everything about every union is fair? Of course not. Do I think that when a union supports a politician they all run out and vote for said pol? No. Do I think the benefit to the workers, in things like healthcare and worker rights outweigh the dues, in most cases, yes.

As far as getting banned, this isn't the other site, and I'm more apt to ignore list people than report them.

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:52 AM   #102
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What question? For the record, you changed the subject with the leap between union dues and planned parenthood

Unions typically fund those that help the unions. Just like the Koch give money to those that support their causes. Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood?

Seriously, you're like arguing with the dog from Up, but instead of getting distracted by a squirrel, it's the 'Abortion' right turn.

Do I think everything about every union is fair? Of course not. Do I think that when a union supports a politician they all run out and vote for said pol? No. Do I think the benefit to the workers, in things like healthcare and worker rights outweigh the dues, in most cases, yes.

As far as getting banned, this isn't the other site, and I'm more apt to ignore list people than report them.
well, union dues and membership generally are not voluntary and neither is abortion(for the aborted).....
isn't planned parenthood an inaccurate name?...shoudn't it be "unplanned"...and....anything but "parenthood"?
they both, through their actions, produce a lot of democrat voters for life

only because you asked Bry

my favorite argument against abortion came from one of the founders of the suffrage movement "women's rights" who said, (paraphrasing) we've worked very long and hard to reach a time when we are not treated by society as property, it would be wrong to treat our unborn children as property...you get the idea....

ask yourself...which will land you in more trouble currently? stepping on a piping plover..... or aborting a/your child?


what is "the Koch"?

Last edited by scottw; 02-22-2011 at 08:04 AM..
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:19 AM   #103
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well, union dues and membership generally are not voluntary
The 2 places where I've worked in a Union environment neither was Mandatory to join the union.

of the 2, GE did require you to pay a fee to the union if you didn't join that was equal to the Union Dues.

The Shipyard, where I am currently working, is completely voluntary, no fee charged if you decide to not to join.

I'm not %100 sure but I think it is Illegal to force somebody to join a Union. I'll see igf I can find something on the Internet about it.

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:21 AM   #104
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Scott,

This is not an abortion debate, and planned parent hood does more than abortions. but thats not for this thread

Jim:
You made the connection, show me the money. Where did a major union give money directly to PP?

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:26 AM   #105
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The 2 places where I've worked in a Union environment neither was Mandatory to join the union.

of the 2, GE did require you to pay a fee to the union if you didn't join that was equal to the Union Dues.

The Shipyard, where I am currently working, is completely voluntary, no fee charged if you decide to not to join.

I'm not %100 sure but I think it is Illegal to force somebody to join a Union. I'll see igf I can find something on the Internet about it.
I said "generally" I believe one of the Wisconsin issues would allow teachers out of the union....dues are not optional in many instances


NPR
Weakening Labor, Weakening Democrats

If you ask labor professor Paul Mishler from Indiana University in South Bend, this battle is only nominally about state budgets.

"What they see as a fiscal crisis is really an excuse to go after the social and political strength of the unions," he says.

The impetus for change is chiefly coming from Republican legislators who realize if they can weaken the unions, they also weaken the Democrats, who are often backed by labor.

Mishler also sees it as another front in the struggle between businesses and workers.

In Indiana, the Chamber of Commerce is a driving force behind efforts to make paying union dues optional. Republican Rep. Gerald Torr ushered that bill through a key committee Monday.

"If the union is providing a good service ... and all of those employees decide to continue paying dues, this bill will have zero effect on them and they will still have the same collective bargaining rights that they have today," Torr says.

Actually, in the 22 states where union dues are voluntary, unions are exceptionally weak. People tend not to volunteer to pay union dues any more than they volunteer to pay taxes.

Richard Vedder, an economist at Ohio University, says so-called right-to-work states, where union dues are voluntary, do tend to see more job growth.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:27 AM   #106
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Scott,

This is not an abortion debate, and planned parent hood does more than abortions. but thats not for this thread
sorry buddy, just tryin' to help

actually, if you want a link, the Wisconsin governor is under assault from planned parenthood and the abortion brigade in conjunction with the unions...google unions planned parenthood

also...

Washington, DC – Planned Parenthood, the nation’s largest abortion business, has added five new board members of the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, its political arm. The new members have curious ties to unions, left-wing billionaire George Soros, and the Democratic Party.

One of the top Planned Parenthood recruits is Michael Vachon, an adjunct associate professor at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs who is an advisor to billionaire left-wing political activist George Soros.

Minyon Moore heads the state and local affairs practice at the Dewey Square Group but she is also the former CEO of the Democratic National Committee and was an assistant to pro-abortion President Bill Clinton as director of White House Political Affairs.

Irma Esparza is the chief of staff for Washington, D.C. councilmember Kwame Brown but she was previously associated with the labor union AFSCME.


AFSCME came under fire in 2003 for co-sponsoring a pro-abortion march that abortion advocacy groups, including Planned Parenthood, planned for April 2004.

Officials from the group’s Washington headquarters appeared along with abortion advocacy organizations at a June press conference announcing the pro-abortion march but would not respond to questions about why the division of AFL-CIO would endorse the pro-abortion march.

Joanne Egerman is another new board member for Planned Parenthood who comes from its affiliate ranks, as she serves on the board of the Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts. However, she is also a member of the regional and national boards of the Anti-Defamation League and the gay and lesbian group Mass Equality.


And Naomi Aberly, the fifth new board member for the abortion business’ political advocacy group, has been active in Obama for America, has been a Democratic fundraiser and involved in local Planned Parenthood abortion businesses.


“At this crucial political juncture, we need the judgment and experience that each one of these five prominent individuals brings to our organization,” Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards said. “They will play a very important role in supporting the Action Fund’s execution of its political program this fall.”

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Old 02-22-2011, 08:47 AM   #107
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From Lawyers.com about Unions.....Strictly Informational

Your New Job and Joining a Union - Lawyers.com

When starting a new job there are several decisions you could be faced with. One of these involves whether or not to join a union. Groups of employees have the right to form unions in order to bargain collectively with employers and to protect their rights. Unions thrive in every level of society and encompass many different types of jobs, including manufacturing, teaching, and film production. When faced with the decision to join a union, make sure you know your rights.

It is illegal to coerce you to join a union. This can be a thin line. It is true that a union cannot force you to join. However, you might find that it is clearly in your best interest to join. Actors cannot get roles in major motion pictures unless they are part of the Screen Actor's Guild or they can somehow convince the production company to pay a fine for using a non-union actor. While no one can force you to join a union there may be practical considerations that make it very difficult to not join if you want to work in a particular industry.

You are always covered by a union's collective bargaining. Whether or not you choose to become a union member, the collective bargaining will benefit you. You will receive all the same benefits as a union member except for any that are designated as solely member benefits. However, if the union gets better pay and better benefits, it is for all employees union or not.

Even though you may not be forced to join a union it is possible you may be forced to pay dues. Some states have passed Right to Work laws which prevent educators and others from being forced to pay union dues when they are not union members. In states that have not passed one of these laws educators and others may not be forced to join the union, but they will be forced to pay the union fees.

A union cannot charge excessive dues. The dues charged by a union can't be too high.

The union can't force an employer to punish a worker for not being a union member. Once again this can be a tricky point. You cannot be penalized by an employer who has already hired you, but, depending on your industry, you might find it difficult to find work.

It is illegal for a union to use threats, intimidation or violence.

A union must bargain with an employer in good faith. A union is not allowed to make demands so unreasonable that they know there is no way the employer could ever capitulate. There must be actual effort to work something out that both sides can agree to.

Remember, it is your choice whether or not you join a union. Get the facts beforehand about what benefits membership will give you and whether or not you will be required to pay dues regardless of whether you join.

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Old 02-22-2011, 09:02 AM   #108
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also...from National Right to Work

Question: Can I be required to be a union member or pay dues to a union?

Answer: You may not be required to be a union member. But, if you do not work in a Right to Work state, you may be required to pay union fees.

Employment relations for almost all private sector employees (other than those in the airline and railroad industries) are covered by the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA).

Under the NLRA, you cannot be required to be a member of a union or pay it any monies as a condition of employment unless the collective bargaining agreement between your employer and your union contains a provision requiring all employees to either join the union or pay union fees.

Even if there is such a provision in the agreement, the most that can be required of you is to pay the union fees (generally called an "agency fee.") Most employees are not told by their employer and union that full union membership cannot lawfully be required. In Pattern Makers v. NLRB, 473 U.S. 95 (1985), the United States Supreme Court held that union members have the right to resign their union membership at any time.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:06 AM   #109
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What is happening in WI is a sign of the times. We more than likely will not see anything like that here in MA because much of our economy is union based and no pol is going to bite the hand that feeds them. More and more though people are getting fed up with going to work every day or lookinog for work every day and supporting a public machine that does little to support them and theirs. We feed the government money to pay salaries and social programs that constantly run askew and just simply don't make sense. Anytime there is any type of budget deficit the same tired argument is rolled out. The first thing they say they are going to cut is education. Then elederly services and then you will hear about how there won't be enough money to put gas in the firetrucks and police cars. Not one politician evertalks about reducing their support staff. Or God forbid here in MA we take away the AAA that welfare recipients get for free or the flexible spending money for things like tobacco and alcohol. My wife is a teacher and I am glad she is because without her overinflated salary of 80k a year plus benefits and extras I would be on welfare and I work 60 plus hours a week keeping a business barely afloat to make sure my employees have paychecks and I can continue to pay my taxes and contribute to unemployment insurance. I now am beginning to see an upswing and could hire people but because I can't predict where the people will be working in six months I choose to work 70 to 80 hours a week instead. Because if I for hire these people and need to lay them off in six months it will cause another increase in my unemployment insurance which could potentially bankrupt me. If the teachers in WI have a problem with the increase in Co pay and loss of collective bargaining tell them to go find another job that pays them to work 6 hours a day 180 days a year and covers 80 percent of their health insurance for them and their families while pulling down an above average salary. I would be willing to bet they will be happy to return to work.

The days of the private sector handing out 100,000 plus dollar jobs is gone. The private sector is absorbing this recession and there needs to be concessions on both sides. It is getting a bit ridiculous.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:16 AM   #110
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What question? For the record, you changed the subject with the leap between union dues and planned parenthood

Unions typically fund those that help the unions. Just like the Koch give money to those that support their causes. Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood?

Seriously, you're like arguing with the dog from Up, but instead of getting distracted by a squirrel, it's the 'Abortion' right turn.

Do I think everything about every union is fair? Of course not. Do I think that when a union supports a politician they all run out and vote for said pol? No. Do I think the benefit to the workers, in things like healthcare and worker rights outweigh the dues, in most cases, yes.

As far as getting banned, this isn't the other site, and I'm more apt to ignore list people than report them.
"What question?"

I'm sorry, I assumed you read my post before you insulted me for its content. Here is what I wrote...

"why do these labor unions get to force people to join them? If I want to be a public schoolteacher, why am I forced to join a damn union?"

"Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood? "

I have 2 brothers who teach, both have shown me financials from their union that show donations to Planned Parenthood. I don't see why someone who wants to teach kids is forced into giving money to causes that may be reprehensible to them. I think that's a legitimate question.

"it's the 'Abortion' right turn"

I picked Planned Parenthood, which liberals are always saying is about a lot more than abortion, by the way. But I could easily have said, "why are teachers forced to give money to unions who donate to liberal politicians"? It wasn't any right-turn, I'm talking about the insane, absolute power that these unions have.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:19 AM   #111
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The 2 places where I've worked in a Union environment neither was Mandatory to join the union.

of the 2, GE did require you to pay a fee to the union if you didn't join that was equal to the Union Dues.

The Shipyard, where I am currently working, is completely voluntary, no fee charged if you decide to not to join.

I'm not %100 sure but I think it is Illegal to force somebody to join a Union. I'll see igf I can find something on the Internet about it.
As far as I know, union membership is mandatory for teachers in every town in CT. And for damn sure it's mandatory in WI, that's one of the things that the Gov is proposing to change, that union membership should be voluntary. Imagine that, giving people a choice as to whether or not they want to join a group, just because they work in a public capacity. Who could disagree with that, right? The unions disagree, loudly.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:22 AM   #112
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Scott,

This is not an abortion debate, and planned parent hood does more than abortions. but thats not for this thread

Jim:
You made the connection, show me the money. Where did a major union give money directly to PP?
I'm not going to take the time to ask my brothers to scan their union's financials. Planned Parenthood is not the point, mandatory union membership is the point.

I'm a conservative. Let's say my dream is to teach kids. If I want to be a schoolteacher, why is it fair that in order to teach, I MUST give mopney to the union which will make donations to politicians that I abhor. Why must I go through that, just because I want to teach?
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:45 AM   #113
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"What question?"

I'm sorry, I assumed you read my post before you insulted me for its content. Here is what I wrote...

"why do these labor unions get to force people to join them? If I want to be a public schoolteacher, why am I forced to join a damn union?"

"Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood? "

I have 2 brothers who teach, both have shown me financials from their union that show donations to Planned Parenthood. I don't see why someone who wants to teach kids is forced into giving money to causes that may be reprehensible to them. I think that's a legitimate question.

"it's the 'Abortion' right turn"

I picked Planned Parenthood, which liberals are always saying is about a lot more than abortion, by the way. But I could easily have said, "why are teachers forced to give money to unions who donate to liberal politicians"? It wasn't any right-turn, I'm talking about the insane, absolute power that these unions have.
Do your 2 brothers schools have sex ed?
Guess where the info comes from.

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Old 02-22-2011, 10:53 AM   #114
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Do your 2 brothers schools have sex ed?
Guess where the info comes from.
Oh boy, you got me. I guess teachers, by virtue of the fact that they work in a building where sex ed is being taught, have no right to oppose abortion.

Oh, wait. They don't perform abortions during sex ed class, you see. But they do perform abortions, lots of 'em, at Planned Parenthood.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:10 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Oh boy, you got me. I guess teachers, by virtue of the fact that they work in a building where sex ed is being taught, have no right to oppose abortion.

Oh, wait. They don't perform abortions during sex ed class, you see. But they do perform abortions, lots of 'em, at Planned Parenthood.
They can complain to their union boss, or just not pay dues to the equivalent of their part of the donation if they feel that strongly.

Problem solved!

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:14 AM   #116
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They can complain to their union boss, or just not pay dues to the equivalent of their part of the donation if they feel that strongly.

Problem solved!
In CT (as I'm sure in most places), the dues come directly out of the teachers' paycheck, and teachers do NOT have the option of witholding a portion of their dues. If they did, I agree, problem would be solved. But that's not an option.

Unions don't like giving members options, you see, they want guaranteed union dues so they can buy democrats who will reward them with insane benefits.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:15 AM   #117
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In CT (as I'm sure in most places), the dues come directly out of the teachers' paycheck, and teachers do NOT have the option of witholding a portion of their dues. If they did, I agree, problem would be solved. But that's not an option.

Unions don't like giving members options, you see, they want guaranteed union dues so they can buy democrats who will reward them with insane benefits.
So sue the union.

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Old 02-22-2011, 12:02 PM   #118
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So sue the union.
Sure! A humble civil servant, suing the unions, which have all of the politicians in their pockets!

Or, you could do what the taxpayers in Wisconsin did, and vote for Republicans. That's just what they did. Problem is, the unions and the Democrats are undermining the democratic process because in this case, it didn't fit their personal agenda...

As Obama likes to say (or at least, he USED TO like to say this) "elections have consequences".
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:59 PM   #119
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looks like Indiana democrats are fleeing their state as well

interestingly, they need to flee to neighboring states with democrat governors otherwise they can be arrested and returned to their own states...

the Founding Fathers would be proud I'm sure....

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Old 02-23-2011, 10:04 AM   #120
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From Lawyers.com about Unions.....Strictly Informational

Your New Job and Joining a Union - Lawyers.com

When starting a new job there are several decisions you could be faced with. One of these involves whether or not to join a union. Groups of employees have the right to form unions in order to bargain collectively with employers and to protect their rights. Unions thrive in every level of society and encompass many different types of jobs, including manufacturing, teaching, and film production. When faced with the decision to join a union, make sure you know your rights.

It is illegal to coerce you to join a union. This can be a thin line. It is true that a union cannot force you to join. However, you might find that it is clearly in your best interest to join. Actors cannot get roles in major motion pictures unless they are part of the Screen Actor's Guild or they can somehow convince the production company to pay a fine for using a non-union actor. While no one can force you to join a union there may be practical considerations that make it very difficult to not join if you want to work in a particular industry.

You are always covered by a union's collective bargaining. Whether or not you choose to become a union member, the collective bargaining will benefit you. You will receive all the same benefits as a union member except for any that are designated as solely member benefits. However, if the union gets better pay and better benefits, it is for all employees union or not.

Even though you may not be forced to join a union it is possible you may be forced to pay dues. Some states have passed Right to Work laws which prevent educators and others from being forced to pay union dues when they are not union members. In states that have not passed one of these laws educators and others may not be forced to join the union, but they will be forced to pay the union fees.

A union cannot charge excessive dues. The dues charged by a union can't be too high.

The union can't force an employer to punish a worker for not being a union member. Once again this can be a tricky point. You cannot be penalized by an employer who has already hired you, but, depending on your industry, you might find it difficult to find work.

It is illegal for a union to use threats, intimidation or violence.

A union must bargain with an employer in good faith. A union is not allowed to make demands so unreasonable that they know there is no way the employer could ever capitulate. There must be actual effort to work something out that both sides can agree to.

Remember, it is your choice whether or not you join a union. Get the facts beforehand about what benefits membership will give you and whether or not you will be required to pay dues regardless of whether you join.

a funny but 100% true story. In a former job, our business cards had to have the GCIU logo in the corner to state that the cards were printed by a union. One of my team visited a union shop and did not have the logo, they had a great meeting and at the end he handed him his card, they saw there was no logo and rudely escorted him out of the building. Its a scam, give your business to union shops or else we wont do business with you.

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