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Old 03-04-2014, 02:43 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Piscator View Post
It wasn't an attempt at humor, sound like a poor interpretation on your part...Jesus...what has the world come to here...I went and googled the term and looks like some have turned this into something more...take it from the Erasmus translation..."a garden tool".

Reminds me why I don't come on this thread much anymore, everyone is so uptight and looking for any reason to jump on someone.

PS. Putin is Eurotrash...might as well bring the KGB into the investigation too
Damn you're sensitive
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:56 PM   #32
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Damn you're sensitive
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Chicks dig my sensitivity...

"I know a taxidermy man back home. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him!"
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:58 PM   #33
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Chicks dig my sensitivity...
"Chicks" is rather degrading , don't you think?
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Old 03-04-2014, 03:05 PM   #34
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"Chicks" is rather degrading , don't you think?
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Don't be so sensitive Steve.....

"I know a taxidermy man back home. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him!"
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:34 PM   #35
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It wasn't an attempt at humor, sound like a poor interpretation on your part...Jesus...what has the world come to here...I went and googled the term and looks like some have turned this into something more...take it from the Erasmus translation..."a garden tool".

Yes, it was, really, an attempt at humor. Apparently a VERY POOR attempt since you took it seriously. I did say your phrase was obviously not meant to be a racial reference. I thought that the use of "spade" as a racial slur was more widely known, but in no way did I mean to say anything negative about your post--which I thought was a good retort to Nebe's post. My admonition to "be careful" was kidding and in reference to so much of the "spying" being done on us in the name of security. I should have made that more clear. Maybe some smiley emoticon would have helped. I apologize for my stupid ignorance

Reminds me why I don't come on this thread much anymore, everyone is so uptight and looking for any reason to jump on someone.

If there were some emoticon for eating humble pie I'd insert it here. Again, I wasn't jumping on you, it was, really, truly, friendly kidding about how some PC/diversity folks, as JohnR put, it would find a reason to do so.

PS. Putin is Eurotrash...might as well bring the KGB into the investigation too
I also agree with that.

On the other hand, if you were just joking as well, you got me.

P.S. That's why I liked JohnR's explanation better than mine.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:35 PM   #36
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You guys are all a bunch of crazy crackers.....
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:56 PM   #37
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I also agree with that.

On the other hand, if you were just joking as well, you got me.

P.S. That's why I liked JohnR's explanation better than mine.
Detbuch, no worries at all. I leaned something though...lots of stuff on Google related to how that phrase has transformed....

"I know a taxidermy man back home. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him!"
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:59 PM   #38
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You guys are all a bunch of crazy crackers.....
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Cracker.....wait a minute. Like

or

"Cracker, sometimes white cracker or cracka, is a derogatory term for white people,[1] especially poor rural whites in the Southern United States. In reference to a native of Florida or Georgia, however, it is sometimes used in a neutral or positive context and is sometimes used self-descriptively with pride."

Or do you just mean we are nuts?


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Old 03-04-2014, 07:44 PM   #39
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...and agreement with those who were not on the "dream team."
These may be the neocons you claim to have no knowledge of, or perhaps it's all one in the same.

Quote:
And an ultimate dismantling of the dream teams policies by those who followed. But that's, as Spence likes to say, old news
Wha? I thought Obama was getting pounded from the Left because he left so much Bush era policy in place.

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And if he were true to the implication that old news is no longer relevant, one wonders why he likes to so often bring up old news. I guess if that tactic suits his argument of the present moment (but subject to change the next day or hour in another thread) it's acceptable--after all, it's CHANGE. And change is the highest aspiration of the progressive mind. Apparently, the more often, the better.
Premium grade spin here

Quote:
But I digress. I may actually agree with the important negotiations being with the EU. If Spence means by that negotiations amongst Russia, the EU, and Ukraine. In fact, those are the ONLY relevant negotiations. And, power to truth, if the EU is not militarily strong enough or morally resolute enough to stand up to the same of Putin's Russia, the "negotiations" may be one sided in results.
I'm not sure EU might has anything to do with that. NATO responsibility would supersede the EU if it came to blows. It will be up to the EU leadership -- especially Germany -- then make the financial gamble that buffering Russia right now is worth it.

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As far as "economic" sanctions--those cut both ways. Besides, Russia has always managed to be outside of Western Europe's economic sphere. And it is forming other alliances rapidly, now, in response to threats against its hegemony in what it considers its sphere of influence.
I think Russia has a lot more to lose from sanctions than the US. What are they going to do, not repay their debt to the West?

-spence
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:21 PM   #40
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These may be the neocons you claim to have no knowledge of, or perhaps it's all one in the same.

Nope. How it "played out" involved the back and forth opposition and agreement of the Dems and everyone else. Besides, that's old news.

Wha? I thought Obama was getting pounded from the Left because he left so much Bush era policy in place.

Oh, so the Obama policy and the 9/11 policy are much the same. And yet you imply that Obama's is better, and the Repubs haven't had a worthwhile one in 10 years. Anyway, the 9/11 policy is old news.

Premium grade spin here

Spin vs. spin. May be premium grade, but could never match the quality of yours.

I'm not sure EU might has anything to do with that. NATO responsibility would supersede the EU if it came to blows. It will be up to the EU leadership -- especially Germany -- then make the financial gamble that buffering Russia right now is worth it.

Coming to blows is so 19th century. The wrong side of history, as J. Kerry would say. Surely the NATO wouldn't stoop to outdated tactics. Financial gamble? You mean sanctions actually do cut both ways as in your " The Russian economy is nothing without access to western banking, trade and his ability to sell natural gas to the EU at a premium"? That is, there is actually trade in which BOTH parties gain or lose?

I think Russia has a lot more to lose from sanctions than the US. What are they going to do, not repay their debt to the West?

-spence
But I thought you said the important discussion was with the EU, Ukraine, and Russia.
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:59 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Piscator View Post
Cracker.....wait a minute. Like

or

"Cracker, sometimes white cracker or cracka, is a derogatory term for white people,[1] especially poor rural whites in the Southern United States. In reference to a native of Florida or Georgia, however, it is sometimes used in a neutral or positive context and is sometimes used self-descriptively with pride."

Or do you just mean we are nuts?


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Old 03-04-2014, 10:45 PM   #42
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Shouldn't there be an ICE CREAM flavor Named after PUTIN?

I mean, COME ON Now


Last edited by Raven; 03-04-2014 at 11:06 PM..
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:50 PM   #43
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Lets call a spade a spade...not many take Obama and his "team" seriously either.
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I am pretty sure that is almost exactly what Putin calls Obama.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:25 PM   #44
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This is pretty heavy...

I like this perspective from the WP.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...39c_story.html

-spence
Spence, here is another perspective sort of along the lines of, or at least allied with, your heavy article. I think you would agree with it, if it's not too aggressive for your tastes. I like parts of it. But I wonder why it takes an American as well as American treasure for something like this to happen. I do like the call for reinstating the plan to install the anti-ballistic sites in Poland and Czechoslovakia which the Obama administration eliminated. And I really like the call for stepping up U.S. oil production including the lifting of the bans on government sites. That would really benefit our sluggish economy as well as replace the need for Ukraine and Western Europe to depend on Russian high priced oil while it would remove Putin's ace against economic sanctions.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/03/05/...-in-the-teeth/
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:57 PM   #45
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Spence, here is another perspective sort of along the lines of, or at least allied with, your heavy article. I think you would agree with it, if it's not too aggressive for your tastes. I like parts of it. But I wonder why it takes an American as well as American treasure for something like this to happen. I do like the call for reinstating the plan to install the anti-ballistic sites in Poland and Czechoslovakia which the Obama administration eliminated. And I really like the call for stepping up U.S. oil production including the lifting of the bans on government sites. That would really benefit our sluggish economy as well as replace the need for Ukraine and Western Europe to depend on Russian high priced oil while it would remove Putin's ace against economic sanctions.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/03/05/...-in-the-teeth/
I said above that we have several economic options that would do Russia serious harm. The Administration has certainly indicated this is a route we're willing to go down.

As for his assertion the Ukraine should cut off Crimea from services...that's pretty unwise IMHO and would give Putin further rationale to move under the guise of protecting Russians...

-spence
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:57 PM   #46
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This thread makes me crave Poutine
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:02 PM   #47
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I like Tracinski's approach, but it would take an administration that doesn't pussy foot around, wouldn't pull shields from the Poles and Cheks, have open mikes revealing "we'll talk after the election" and pushing re-set buttons.
The message has already been sent ,and unless there is a 360, Putin will milk it for all it's worth.

" Choose Life "
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:21 PM   #48
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I like Tracinski's approach, but it would take an administration that doesn't pussy foot around, wouldn't pull shields from the Poles and Cheks, have open mikes revealing "we'll talk after the election" and pushing re-set buttons.
The message has already been sent ,and unless there is a 360, Putin will milk it for all it's worth.
The reality is as Obama once noted...the Cold War really is over. Putin can play games but most of what was the Eastern Bloc are now EU and NATO members.

Without strong ties to Western antagonists and an energy dependent economy Russia has little to offer, it's a 3rd world country.

-spence
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:02 PM   #49
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The reality is as Obama once noted...the Cold War really is over. Putin can play games but most of what was the Eastern Bloc are now EU and NATO members.

Without strong ties to Western antagonists and an energy dependent economy Russia has little to offer, it's a 3rd world country.

-spence
Which is why I don't understand why the U.S. has to be involved. We could supply the Eastern Europeans with some weaponry and technology. The combined EU has more than enough resource and manpower to stand on their own, and to slap Putin and his ambitions silly. Even more so, since most of the Russian people don't want to go the mat for their Stalin-lite dictator's expansionist desire if it means they have to sacrifice and die for it. That would be the most demonstrative and lasting way for the Europeans to discourage threats from tyrannical bullies.

Maybe they just haven't fully bought in to what a union requires. Maybe they like and want to keep their differences intact, including the eternal squabbles and hates and jealousies among each other. And maybe they are just too used to depending on Big Brother America stepping in to do the dirty, bloody, and expensive heavy lifting. And maybe too many of them have their own internal problems, ethnic and economic, that concern them more than the fate of Ukraine.

The greatest good for their union, if they want to keep it and make it work, would be for them to get a unified backbone and punch the bully in the face, without outside help, and keep punching till he can't get up.
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:18 AM   #50
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Which is why I don't understand why the U.S. has to be involved. We could supply the Eastern Europeans with some weaponry and technology. The combined EU has more than enough resource and manpower to stand on their own, and to slap Putin and his ambitions silly.
Maybe they could get together a "Rainbow Coalition" to fight the oppressor....send a double message to Putin.

Call it "Operation Slap-Tickle"


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Old 03-06-2014, 06:19 AM   #51
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...and even though I posted the above...you pretty much nailed it. Why do we need to jump in and fix everything...

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:54 AM   #52
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one billion in aid should cure their problem...after all we do not need them dollars to repair our infrastructure....which crook is going to hide that billion....
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:11 AM   #53
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The reality is as Obama once noted...the Cold War really is over.

-spence

The cold war maybe over as it was once described, but if he looks out
the window and sees Iran, Syria, North Korea, and now the Ukraine,
the winter vortex is coming fast.
I really doubt the EU wants to make the sacrifices needed to pressure
Russia. As was stated ,it is the US that always carries the heavy load and it's
time Europe stood up to the plate and lead the way.

" Choose Life "
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Old 03-06-2014, 03:50 PM   #54
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Hmmmmm Russia sinking ships . This can't be goodi
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Old 03-06-2014, 03:57 PM   #55
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We should just do what we did when they invaded Moldovia and Georgia.
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:12 PM   #56
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Which is why I don't understand why the U.S. has to be involved. We could supply the Eastern Europeans with some weaponry and technology. The combined EU has more than enough resource and manpower to stand on their own, and to slap Putin and his ambitions silly. Even more so, since most of the Russian people don't want to go the mat for their Stalin-lite dictator's expansionist desire if it means they have to sacrifice and die for it. That would be the most demonstrative and lasting way for the Europeans to discourage threats from tyrannical bullies.
It's not about weapons, Russia's ability to use direct military force is geographically quite limited. They went to Crimea as it was one of the few important places they thought they could get away with it. The thing is they already have a military presence there and by treaty can have a very large military presence until 2048. Aside from some economic output does Crimea really gain them all that much? Given the push back from the West a land grab into eastern Ukraine doesn't seem very likely.

It's amazing how the GOP has jumped on Obama even going so far as to blame him for Crimea because he's "weak." I think the opposite may be true, our policy is putting a lot of strain on Russia and forcing their hand.

Regardless, the lack of unity must be giving Putin all the reassurance they need that we won't act. If anything, comments by the likes of Sen Graham and Rep Rogers are emboldening Russia's actions.

Quote:
Maybe they just haven't fully bought in to what a union requires. Maybe they like and want to keep their differences intact, including the eternal squabbles and hates and jealousies among each other. And maybe they are just too used to depending on Big Brother America stepping in to do the dirty, bloody, and expensive heavy lifting. And maybe too many of them have their own internal problems, ethnic and economic, that concern them more than the fate of Ukraine.

The greatest good for their union, if they want to keep it and make it work, would be for them to get a unified backbone and punch the bully in the face, without outside help, and keep punching till he can't get up.
Certainly the EU should act more as a union, but that doesn't count us out of it. We don't rely on Russia for much compared to the EU and they'll need our backing to lessen any economic ties, they can't do it alone.

Germany is the real nut here with I think Poland a rising second...

-spence
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:50 PM   #57
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There is something in Crimea that he wants, or wants to keep from getting out. What it is? I don't have a clue. It is clearly important enough to have risked all the goodwill he built (and now lost) from Sochi.
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:51 PM   #58
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So this is the GOPs fault now .
The lack of unity , Spence??
Your hypocracy amazes me .
You even list the offending Senators .
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:56 PM   #59
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There is something in Crimea that he wants, or wants to keep from getting out. What it is? I don't have a clue. It is clearly important enough to have risked all the goodwill he built (and now lost) from Sochi.
I think he's just trying to disrupt the movement of the last Eastern Bloc states Westward.

Putin really seems to believe he can bribe his own people with revenue from energy, hold Europe by the balls, pretend he's a modern leader with Sochi and still act like a thug.

He may be delusional.

-spence
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:57 PM   #60
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So this is the GOPs fault now .
The lack of unity , Spence??
Your hypocracy amazes me .
You even list the offending Senators .
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Never said it was the fault of the GOP.

But for a party who claims to have the moral high ground many sure seem to be suffering for daylight.

-spence
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