Striper mortality

[Slipknot]

OK so seeing how the stocks are deemed in trouble by the fish managers like we have been saying for quite a while now, maybe we can have a discussion about how we as surfcasters can avoid any undue stress or harm to bass we intend to release. I think we all try to handle the bass carefully but there are other factors like water temps, oxygen levels etc. Choosing not to fish catch and release in riskier less than ideal conditions is one helpful way to avoid mortality.
I think less chance of foul hooking a bass in another way. In this youtube, Dave describes a way to reduce the number of hooks on plugs so as not to add risk to foul hooking a fish. One front hook is pretty much all you need. He describes how adding a worm weight in place of rear hooks does not really effect the action and I think it is a really good idea.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=09ByNzVOR0Y

There are other things we can do and also boat guys can do so maybe we can discuss it now that the bass are around again.


Running list:

1. Crush your barbs, one of the simplest easy things to do.
2. Don't weigh a large bass by the mouth on a boga. If you must remove fish from water, measure it quickly to calculate the weight or just estimate, the fun part is catching and letting here swim away anyway.
3.Plug fishing with single hooks whether it's like Outflow fishing describes or some other way to eliminate the 2nd belly hook or tail hooks.
4. Have the right weight gear for the job so as not to stress the fish out, don't fish the canal for large with a noodle rod another words.
5. don't use M-80's
6. limit your handling of the fish and the time it takes, if possible unhook it while still in the water.
7. Try not to fish catch and release in warm water temps

[Guppy]

That’s good stuff, nice to see

Facebook yesterday there was some rocket scientist holding up a schoolie with blood coming out of its gil plate....something about “there back” or good fishing today....

[Rockfish9]

Good thread Bruce, last few years, I've tried to unhook more fish boat side on larger fish with a plastic lip gripper and ARC dehooker, also already made the move to in line circle hooks with live bait (i wont fish chunks )when Maine made it mandatory. ..
When fishing for smaller fish, i try to use single hooks on lures and pinch or grind the barbs.
There have been many debates on light line versus heavy line,my thought is the lighter line allows a fish to tire out so it won't injure itself,by light line, I don't mean line light enough to a fish until it goes belly up, common sense needs to apply, and that's another issue upon itself..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[MAKAI]

Most of my plugs are rigged with in line single hooks. All rear trebles are gone.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[zimmy]

Stop the hanging of big fish on the boga.

[pbadad]

Great thread. Recently I have been redesigning a few of my builds to use 1 hook and counter acting the loss of the 2nd belly. I spoke at our clyb meeting with Dave Anderson on the worm weight idea. I have used split shot suspended on wire but like the worm weight. This makes existing designs les invasive. That 2nd hook is the damage hook to both us and fish. On the plastic swimmers I am experimenting with inline belly and tail hooks using an earth magnet in belly to hold hook. I have caught schoolies this season on modified mag darters but each hook up was on rear. Seems they hit the plug but miss hooking the front hook but upon hook set the rear inline hooks the fish. Evidence was on one fish the belly single was flipped around on penetrated into the plug back. I would assume larger fish will inhale these plugs and hook the front.
I will start a thread soon on plug forum to get builders ideas on building a 2 hook into a one hook lure and maintaining the action.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by pbadad

Great thread. Recently I have been redesigning a few of my builds to use 1 hook and counter acting the loss of the 2nd belly. I spoke at our clyb meeting with Dave Anderson on the worm weight idea. I have used split shot suspended on wire but like the worm weight. This makes existing designs les invasive. That 2nd hook is the damage hook to both us and fish. On the plastic swimmers I am experimenting with inline belly and tail hooks using an earth magnet in belly to hold hook. I have caught schoolies this season on modified mag darters but each hook up was on rear. Seems they hit the plug but miss hooking the front hook but upon hook set the rear inline hooks the fish. Evidence was on one fish the belly single was flipped around on penetrated into the plug back. I would assume larger fish will inhale these plugs and hook the front.
I will start a thread soon on plug forum to get builders ideas on building a 2 hook into a one hook lure and maintaining the action.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

There are two factors, one the weight, most known, second is the drag which is not significant - I used to wrap some solder to the middle belly hook for a little of both

[Clammer]

I stopped using M-80,s ><

seriously ..I was watching two guys in yaks Sat Night . they were catching schoolies on poppers were if they had put on lead heads they would have had a 100 more hits . anyway .I watched in guy . fight a fish to the point he chases it & then keeps holding the rod making the fish fight longer . at this point I kept watching only only to see how big it was , sadly final he slid in close ………..I don,t think it was 20" .
havng fun is great & light line is ok . but not to the point were your fishing with very little or no drag ><><
He was too far away for me to start my rant & noe quite enough daylight to get me boat [5 minutes] away . were I would rocked his world & then some .

really getting IDGAF on fishing ……… watched golderns swim the other night .rod never left the truck ><>>

[Slipknot]

If I am fishing and there are only small fish around, I just use single hook leadhead with rubber or something and I crush the barbs.


I will edit my first post and keep a list going as we get replies. All good stuff people.

[ivanputski]

*I have removed most tail trebles , especially on darters, as they always
seem to end up on the eye on in the face .somewhere.

*Really trying to not hammer schoolies on days where its easy to catch 50 of them.


*I will be skipping catch and release tournaments that require
measuring and photographing fish for entries.
The reality is, that even with an extremely efficient system I had for doing
this, I still had times where the fish was out of the water for just way too
long (especially after a long fight in warm months.)
No need for me to add to the potential release mortality of multiple fish just for a chance to win more gear that I already own.



This sounds crazy, but I almost feel that we are only a few short years away from removing all hooks from our plugs, and counting 'hits" as successful
fishing. If the act of fishing with hooks damages fish, and there arent enough fish to go around, lets be honest we are screwed... unless the stock rebounds.

[ThrowingTimber]

Everytime someone takes and shares a picture of a schoolie with a front treble in its mouth, and the rear treble poking into its gills or belly a searobin earns its wings...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[bart]

What I don’t understand is why the concern now? Because the stocks are low? That’s like everyone complaining how the ASMFC waits until the stock is overfished before making any adjustments to the size/bag limits. Why not only use a single belly treble all along if you’re really that concerned about the fish?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by bart

What I don’t understand is why the concern now? Because the stocks are low? That’s like everyone complaining how the ASMFC waits until the stock is overfished before making any adjustments to the size/bag limits. Why not only use a single belly treble all along if you’re really that concerned about the fish?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'll do my best to answer your questions.


"What I don’t understand is why the concern now?" I am sure there was concern in the past and there is concern now and there will be in the future, this is not a new thing. I think there should be more awareness for all, including new fishermen and old.

"Because the stocks are low?" Nope, because conservation is a good thing. If everyone paid attention to Bob Pond, maybe things would be better.

"That’s like everyone complaining how the ASMFC waits until the stock is overfished before making any adjustments to the size/bag limits." I get your point but essentially no, I think we can have a discussion and bring the subject up to broaden some horizons. I don't know about you but I could learn a few more things and better ways and techniques.

"Why not only use a single belly treble all along if you’re really that concerned about the fish?" Some have, some were not aware and some may have halfway did that. I think Dave's worm weight idea was more is more than just about conservation and mortality, it shows you can still be as effective with plugs and get similar action so your catch rate does not suffer from simply removing a hook or two.

Good questions but we should look forward and try to reduce the numbers of fish that don't make it that they are telling us we are killing. Maybe raising the level of care so in the backs of our minds we can be more conscientious that is all.

I personally have put less pressure on the bass by not going fishing as many trips as I used to. I know there was a time when I did that in the past due to the cost of gasoline, and other times due to work but now I try to focus on fewer more quality trips.

[ivanputski]

Bart, My guess is that the recent few years of decline , release mortality rates, etc. have made people more aware of things that no one ever thinks about when
fishing is booming. We all know that hooking a fish in the face isnt doing it any favors, but how many of us knew that 10% of properly released fish are suspected not to make it? I understand your question, and I agree, why not just do it anyway? I just think that its the lean times that make us think a bit harder about how to reduce the daily impact we have as we fish.

[PaulS]

I have either gone to single tail hooks or cut off 2 of the 3 trebles on rear hook. I also crushed all my barbs. I have doubled my attempt to keep fish in the water and not hang it by a boga. I didn't fish that much for holdovers this winter as just hammering schoolies gets old fast. I will fish the canal prob. 2 -3 times this year but as with prior years won't try to catch as many fish as I think I can knowing I'm still going to have fish who are released die.

[JFigliuolo]

I think all this will amount to little if any significant results. More people DON'T care than DO. Sadly, it's that simple...

[Rockfish9]

I do not think it's all of a sudden, it seems, to me anyway, most of us have been slowly, changing our ways, because we have been around long enough to have seen this play before, we know the ending, so slowly, in our own small way we are doing what we feel is reasonable to enjoy our sport, and make a move towards conserving the species...I stopped selling fish in 2004 for this very reason...I've made many changes in my habits since then, and I know others have done so as well..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[numbskull]

The above is all fine and good but replacing the people who have mismanaged the fishery is far more important.......and we all know that is not going to happen.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by JFigliuolo

I think all this will amount to little if any significant results. More people DON'T care than DO. Sadly, it's that simple...

Agree 100%. I would add that if they fish the canal 2x per year or go out on their friends boat and catch a keeper, most people will keep it. I'm constantly asked how many fish I bring home and people look at me funny when I say I throw them all back.

[piemma]

Christ, Rob, I haven't had a treble hook on the back of any of my plugs in 15 years. Those of us who use to fish 100 nights a year and lived through the moratorium knew that we had been injuring fish with the rear treble. Didn't serve any useful purpose anyway as most bass take the plug head on.
I use to wade the reefs in Narraganset all night and the last thing you needed was being waist deep in the water and trying to unhook a 20# fish with trebles swinging all over the place.

[striperswiper75]

Is there any available information on the leading causes of mortality in released fish? Is time out of water a greater cause than a treble in a gill plate? Or is a gut hook (line cut as close to hook as possible before release) more harmful than a set or rear trebles in the side of the head?

I would think that time out of water is the biggest culprit, followed by a gut hook while fishing bait, then hook in the gills. I'm curious what others think.

[Guppy]

Proposal to Reduce Striped Bass Release Mortality
This winter DMF will be proposing to implement two new conservation measures for the striped bass fisheries aimed at minimizing the number of fish that are killed through hooking and releasing. The proposed measures would prohibit the use of gaffs and mandate the use of in-line circle hooks when using live or cut natural baits.

The Massachusetts recreational striped bass fishery is primarily catch and release. Our anglers release about 93% of all the striped bass they catch. Discards in the commercial striped bass fishery, though difficult to quantify, are also believed to make up a significant share of the catch, especially given the larger minimum size for that fishery. Studies have shown that about 9% of released striped bass will die from the effects of hooking and handling (called release mortality). Given that recent stock assessments have shown that fishing mortality is increasing, we think it is time to institute some broad-based and effective measures to lower the mortality rate and ensure the future health of the striped bass stock.

We have heard from many anglers that feel a no-gaffing rule in the striped bass fishery is a no-brainer. Using a gaff to assist in bringing your catch aboard causes significant injury to the fish and there is often no way to tell the precise length of this fish until it is removed from the water. Given that our fisheries release large numbers of striped bass that are just below the legal size limit, we feel it is irresponsible to continue to allow the practice. Numerous other Atlantic coast states have already implemented such a provision in their striped bass fisheries, including Maine, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Maryland, and Virginia.

The mandatory use of in-line circle hooks is the single most effective way to decrease mortality in striped bass. There are many studies that demonstrate the efficacy of circle hooks in lowering release mortality in striped bass and other species. Deep hooking (i.e., when the hook catches in the esophagus or gills rather than the lip) is the major contributor to release mortality. It has been demonstrated that the use of circle hooks, as compared to j hooks, greatly reduces the incidence of deep hooking and therefore mortality. The latest catch estimate from the revised Marine Recreational Information Program (see page 7) indicates that Massachusetts recreational anglers released almost 13 million striped bass in 2017. If we apply the release mortality rate of 9%, that means over 1 million striped bass died after being released. That’s compared to only 300,000 that were taken home and eaten! Clearly the mortality resulting from fishing in Massachusetts can have an effect on the striped bass population. That’s why DMF is proposing the mandatory use of circle hooks for anglers using certain natural baits. A study in Maryland found a 90% reduction in mortality when using in-line circle hooks. Imagine if we could reduce the number of release deaths from over a million fish to 100,000!

DMF will be bringing the proposal to implement these two conservation regulations to public hearing this winter. We seek the public’s input on certain aspects of how the regulations will apply. For instance, should the gaffing and circle hook rules apply to the recreational, for-hire, and commercial sectors universally or should some groups be exempt; should artificial lures with bait (e.g., tube and worm) be included? We hope to see you at the public hearings and let us know your opinion.

[Clammer]

Do they really believe that the mass , Rec fishery is 95% C&R ………………. I guess they don,t count the canal

those guys fishing in the canal . that have the outfits worth more than their cars/ truck/s are not going home empty handed

[Jenn]

My issue has always been "we dont ever really know" but if your catching and either keeping or releasing you never truly know on the releasing part. If you are fishing and catching / releasing you cant truly know but have to assume some amount of mortality even when releasing. I have caught 20 times more largemouth in my life than stripers so I am basing most of my response on that expertise specifically but I have caught 10 bass in a couple hours on the same lure/ method and release 9 confident they would live no issue but that one ....that one was roughed up and bled more than the other 9 combined......we've all been there and cant deny it happens. Catch and release all you want...make yourself feel good about releasing but fact of the matter is you are weakening every fish you catch in some manner. Some (and maybe most) will survive....but some will suffer. Some may die 15 minutes later and some may not... some will heal, some might suffer infection and die a month later....my point is we cant prove catch and release is a hundred percent survival or hundred percent fatality. some will go one way or other...just like humans in a fight. Some could die in minutes from a blow to the head or some could get so brutally beaten and live against all odds. But don't ever assume every fish you release magically survives just because you released it.

[piemma]

Great post Jenn. EXACTLY!!
This is why I stopped fishing for hold overs years ago and for schoolies years ago. Why do people think that just because they release a fish it lives?

It's stupid to fish for schoolies, in my opinion. All you are doing is injuring juvenile fish. I know, "it's my right and I am within the law." That doesn't make you conservation minded. All you are doing is satisfying a primal instinct to prove you can conquer an adolescent animal with a brain the size of a pea.

I'm sure this post will piss off a ton of folks. Tough ^^%$$&!

[wdmso]

This is why I stopped fishing for hold overs years ago and for schoolies years ago. Why do people think that just because they release a fish it lives?


for the same reason people think just because you CR they Die

.. the best you can do is attempt to minimize the damage you do cause.. type hooks barbs or barbless dont use trebles unhook the fish in the water or dont target them all will help reduce fish moritaly..

but we still allow gill nets seine boats fish traps and pollution all effect this issues but not all equally

[Clammer]

Paul , not getting into any issues with ya .

but why do you hit a little white ball & then go chase it ??????????
I realize its not the same but the reason is …………………………… you really enjoy it . same reasons

Me , I have fun catching schoolies …………….. sometimes I only go for 1/2 a hour .But that 1/2 may be just what I need for the soul .
large I fish from the 3rd week of may & thru June & then if they are there or not I,m done ,
when I,m fishing the dead of night of a flay calm .& a 20" slams a 3" weightless sluggo right out of no where ………… to me that awesome ………….
I know there is no correct answer to this subject …………………. It makes me happy & at this stage …..if I was having fun sitting on glass I would do it ><>

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Clammer

Paul , not getting into any issues with ya .

but why do you hit a little white ball & then go chase it ??????????
I realize its not the same but the reason is …………………………… you really enjoy it . same reasons

Me , I have fun catching schoolies …………….. sometimes I only go for 1/2 a hour .But that 1/2 may be just what I need for the soul .
large I fish from the 3rd week of may & thru June & then if they are there or not I,m done ,
when I,m fishing the dead of night of a flay calm .& a 20" slams a 3" weightless sluggo right out of no where ………… to me that awesome ………….
I know there is no correct answer to this subject …………………. It makes me happy & at this stage …..if I was having fun sitting on glass I would do it ><>

Mike, I understand and my comments were not directed at you.

I have seen guys on the West Wall and the Canal throw fish 30 feet. Bryan and I watched guys kick schoolies back in the surf at the Fire Beach because they were afraid to touch the fish. So my comments were directed at the nitwits who don't know to handle a fish. Sorry if you thought I was directing at you.

[Guppy]

You’d have a hard time convincing me that pulling a shoolie out by the lip , remove hoook and toss him back in is gonna kill him...
I’m not talking taking a bow and a picture just pull the hook and heave him in....

This is from memory,,,, :-)

[Got Stripers]

Can’t even remember the last plug I fished, I’m a single hook plastic nut as most know, so I don’t have much to adjust. I also am more interested in good eaters and very rarely just go striper fishing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device