Do it right the first time...

[Rockfish9]

This thread is for anyone setting up a shop, or setting up a new dust collector...or is unhappy with the current set up..

last week while planeing some boards for a "honey do" project, I clogged the pipe going from the thickness planer to the dust collector...
My present unit is a 850 cfm Delta that I bought when I set up my new shop( 4 years ago), it seemed to do a pretty good job on the smaller stuf.. or so I thought....after clogging the pipe for the umpteenth time, I decided to do something about it....
as an aside, I work as a miantenance mechanic in a machine shop and work with ductwork all the time, so I should ( and do) know better.. but when I installed my ductwork, i used 4" plastic pipe ( in the name of cheapness and ease of installation), ( drain pipe) so the correct( T-Y's) fittings are hard to come by, so I used "T"'s to branch off from the main line( which prior was an UNDERSIZED 4" line) and short radius 90's for the drops... never bothering to ground anything( it takes time to do it right)... after the clogging fiasco, I was ready for a new, more powerfull collector, but first the ductwork need to be "sized" for the new unit.... using 22 gauge snap fit galvy duct work, I fabricated a main 6" trunk, each branch was then split off using a 6" T-Y then sized accordingly( all joints were sealed with sealant and/or taped) most trunks were 4" plastic, with ground wires inside the duct and another spiral wrapped and joined at the main trunk to eliminate statric electricity ( an amazing amount of fine dust clings to the inside of those non grounded plastic pipes), which was eventualy grounded to the dust collector and each machine ( thickness planer called for 5" to maintain 400 cfm)... manifolds were made for the smaller table top tools( chops saw, band saw scroll saw and sanders) these were given their own drop...at the end of the main 6" trunk, it was terminated with a T-Y with a capped end for inspection and easy clean out...

At the dust collector end, I moved my pre collection drum from under the lathe bench where it served only the lathe and moved it to sevice the whole system, it was fitted with quick disconnects to aid in emptying the drum( prior I had to release hose clamps and remove hoses...

Just for "laughs" I fired up the old unit( which now I may be keeping) ,with the farthest blast gate open I was able to "stick" a piece of cardboard over the end of the main when I removed the cap and it pulled it tight tot he duct... I tosed a handfull of wood chips in the air cose to the last 4" drop and it all vanished instantly.. the static pressure ( suction) at that gate was eaisily double what it was prior to the upgrade...I progressed down the line all the way back to the first drop ( the first lathe) the static presure ( by hand feel and saw dust test) was pretty much the same as the last drop, telling me that the system is now running as efficeiantly as possible with the original dust collector.. tonight I fire up the planner....

Summary:.. all those twists and turns, T's and undersized pipe. severly restricted the air flow ( cfm) from my old unit... I knew that in air flow, smooth transistions and a larger main trunck are advised, .. I just never realized they made THAT much of a differance.

[numbskull]

This stuff confuses me no end.

As I understand it, larger ducts are more efficient, but require higher HP blowers to maintain air velocity high enough to carry chips, which is why most home shop collectors are designed for smaller duct work. For 6" pipe you may be looking at 3-5hp machines. You also need to upgrade the dust bags (both quality and surface area)to handle this increased pressure (or the dangerous small dust gets blown right through). Finally, most good systems now make use of a cyclone to reduce bag clogging. The cyclone has to be designed specifically for the HP of the collector. Even then, capturing the dust/chips at the source becomes a nightmare.

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by numbskull

This stuff confuses me no end.

As I understand it, larger ducts are more efficient, but require higher HP blowers to maintain air velocity high enough to carry chips, which is why most home shop collectors are designed for smaller duct work. For 6" pipe you may be looking at 3-5hp machines. You also need to upgrade the dust bags (both quality and surface area)to handle this increased pressure (or the dangerous small dust gets blown right through). Finally, most good systems now make use of a cyclone to reduce bag clogging. The cyclone has to be designed specifically for the HP of the collector. Even then, capturing the dust/chips at the source becomes a nightmare.

the main purpose of a cyclone is to cut down on the debris passing through your impeller , thus landing in a collection bin instead of a bag that needs to be cleand/emptied
I actualy have charts and formulas for figuring this stuff out.. I'm already running 1 micron 40 gallon bags( which even when cleaned, have a shelf life) and a cyclone pre sepperator...my blower wheel is 11.5".. and free wheels at 3450 rpm's.. and even though the port is 4" it moves a sufficient volumne of air..... the smaller the pipe, the more resistance, the more turns/"t"s the more resistance.. branch speed should be approx 400 fpm.. main trunk approx 350fpm.... all that said, I wanted to upgrade to a canister type fine dust filter instead of a pair of bags( a royal PITA service).... in the end, the cost of a new canister, was half of a new unit.. I just ordered a 2 HP, 1500 cfm unit.... with 1 mic canister filter and disposable 60 gallon bags.... DONE!

[Grapenuts]

all these problems wood disappear if u just shot it right outside..no back presure from bags or cans to interfear....it's called mulch and I don't care what part of the country your from,it's what makes loam.

[eskimo]

Finally grounded my DC this past weekend after having the kit for 6 months. Never felt like I turned enough to cause a problem but I'm usually the example whenever I think like that.

I also changed from T's to Y's after seeing a friends setup that he uses for making cutting boards. Also wish I paid up and got metal blast gates when I purchased the plastic kind.

[Diggin Jiggin]

I run a shop vac, but only once or twice a year.
Ahhh shop envy...

[GFGF]

Bought my grizzly cyclone dec 08 but couldnt afford the ductwork untill dec 09. gave me plenty of time to concider duct design. " Bills cyclone" web page has lots of info.
my take on it: keep the ducts as large as possible for as long as u can. if and when you do get down to 4" plastic, try using stickey foil tape inside and out of the pipe with a screw or bolt to connect the 2 for a ground.
if u stay with a 7 or 6" duct, there's a huge diff. in volume when u bush that pipe down to 2.25" ( shop vac hose) your shop vac will have more suction than the dust system.big impeller=big duct
I started my woodshop in 1988 but never felt i needed a DCS untill i started turning lures a few years ago. wrong.shulda done it sooner .cough cough.
GF

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Grapenuts

all these problems wood disappear if u just shot it right outside..no back presure from bags or cans to interfear....it's called mulch and I don't care what part of the country your from,it's what makes loam.

And I thought that was my secret

[Rockfish9]

Now that I've been using it for a few weeks, and have recieved several PM's and questions about the new system, I'll share what I've done...in pictures.

the new DC is a PSI 1500 cfm single stage powered by a 2 HP motor turning a 12" steel impeller.. the inlet is 6" and coinsides nicely with my 6" Main trunk duct work... I originaly wanted to install a cyclone, but I have height limitations and a cyclone with enough cfm simply wont fit... this one make it by 1/2"... I chose a 1 micron canister type that is 40" tall and gives superrior filteration to a bag type, a disposable bag catches the debis that is drawn in or shaken from the canister...I've included the fan curve with my first photo...

[Rockfish9]

pictured are the main ducts and the branches, because I had over 40' of plastic, i did utilize it for the branch ducts that could accomodate 4" restrictions...notice the spiral wrap of bare copper on the pipe, ther is also a ground wire on the inside, they are mated externaly and grounded to the main pipe which is in turn grounded to the collector , each branch is also terminated at each machine..

[Rockfish9]

the first branch terminates at the lathe and a floor sweep directly under the lathe, aluminum blast gates control the flow to either duct...

[Rockfish9]

the first shot is kind of a long view of the duct work as it travels away from the DC...

Next picture is of a small hood I affixed to the chop saw, this was problematic and took several tries to get it right.. now it is nearly perfect..

on the same table, controlled by it's own drop and blast gate is the drill press...

[Rockfish9]

next is the beast that started all the trouble, the planer..this thing always made a mess, and clogged the pipe... no longer, i made the hood from a forced hot air floor sweep..because of the volume needes ( 550 -600 cfm) I ran a 6" duct to the drop, a 5" blast gate and 5" pipe...

[Rockfish9]

beyond the planer, the trunk is 4" and services the jointer, it requires 250cfm and is feed by a 2 1/2" drop ( vacume cleaner hose) this drop has a quick disconect and eaisily reaches the router table..

the main branch is terminated in a T-Y that is capped for easy access as a clean out....

[Rockfish9]

att eh junction of the planer branch is a drop for the band saw... at the drop is a "utility" drop that can be used ( with adapters) for the table saw or craftsman lathe tha I use to drill with, the hose drop is a rigid colapsable one that can be folded away if the lathe table is moved ( it's on casters)..

[Grapenuts]

nice set up....I loved mine too, but with the amount of juice the thing sucks up and the high cost of elect. down here, the old lady won't let me turn it on anymore...so I'm back to letting the chip fall where they may and when they get to deep..out comes the broom,shovel and barrel.

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by Grapenuts

nice set up....I loved mine too, but with the amount of juice the thing sucks up and the high cost of elect. down here, the old lady won't let me turn it on anymore...so I'm back to letting the chip fall where they may and when they get to deep..out comes the broom,shovel and barrel.

I hear ya on the power draw.. this one has a sarting draw of 9 amps and runs on 6....less than a toaster...

[eskimo]

wow! that's extensive. I like the hood on the miter saw.
looking at your shop makes me feel lazyyy

[eastendlu]

Nice post on the dust collector and ducts.I noticed something also and show you how you can get another 150 to 200 cfm more from that dust collector .You are going to get a kick out of it.The hose connecting the blower to the filter if you change it out to piping it will improve the cfm due to static pressure. Here are two grizzly dustcollectors one with the bag filter is 2hp 1550 cfm and the other 2hp 1700 cfm see the differences not just the filters.

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by eastendlu

Nice post on the dust collector and ducts.I noticed something also and show you how you can get another 150 to 200 cfm more from that dust collector .You are going to get a kick out of it.The hose connecting the blower to the filter if you change it out to piping it will improve the cfm due to static pressure. Here are two grizzly dustcollectors one with the bag filter is 2hp 1550 cfm and the other 2hp 1700 cfm see the differences not just the filters.

exactly.. the yellow pipe that feeds the collector is smoothe bore, made by a company called flexaust... I have a piece ordered for the outlet hose to replace the factory one...

On the other hand.. the thing realy is over kill for everything I need, the excetion being the planer.... when running one machine, say the lathe for instance, if I open a second gate the motor speeds up .. quite a bit... the static pressure drops slightly, even though the motor/wheel has sped up.... I'm thrilled with the effciency of the system... a huge up grade over what I had before....

[eastendlu]

Joe i am going to get in so much trouble now after looking at all those nice pics. I guess its time to reorganize the shop.

[Rockfish9]

Hey Lu.. notice anythging about any of the lathes????

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

att eh junction of the planer branch is a drop for the band saw... at the drop is a "utility" drop that can be used ( with adapters) for the table saw or craftsman lathe tha I use to drill with, the hose drop is a rigid colapsable one that can be folded away if the lathe table is moved ( it's on casters)..

Your electric meter must set neighborhood records when you are running that system.

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Your electric meter must set neighborhood records when you are running that system.

no sir... almost everything has been converted to 220 volts... I've put amp draws on most of the stuff.... draws very little....

[eastendlu]

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

Hey Lu.. notice anythging about any of the lathes????

Some real fine dust on the tubed one

[ProfessorM]

that setup sucks

[eastendlu]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

that setup sucks

Why not enough titanium used?

[ProfessorM]

literally sucks wood dust.


BTW Did you ever send me that darter?

[eastendlu]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

literally sucks wood dust.


BTW Did you ever send me that darter?

Nope going out early next week i got stuck doing something else sorry Paul my bad.Plus i still have to George a pic of another musso that i have come across.

[Slipknot]

I like that a lot Joe

I have a similar dust collector and just upgraded the filter to the same pleated 1 micron canister. Now that I finally bought a real band saw, I want to redo all new ducting to all my machines and 6" pipes will be the mains.