President Obama's health care--

[RIJIMMY]

ok - so lets educate people instead of dumping trillions into forcing people to have insurance and forcing me to pay for it.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

ok - so lets educate people instead of dumping trillions into forcing people to have insurance and forcing me to pay for it.

Welcome back, Jim! It's been very quiet in here without you. I hope things are better.

As for your point about educating people, I don't think that's possible. The politicians don't want educated citizens. They want everyone to need the govenment to do their thinking for them.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by fishbones

The politicians don't want educated citizens.

That is why the administration is pushing these programs through at warp speed.

They know if the people had enough time to digest them they wouldn't support them.

They already have government control of the banks and car companies with the big apple being Health Care and the control over 1/6 th of our economy.

Hey, they don't even want the Congress to be educated with proposing1100-1600 page bills with 5 hours to read them before voting.

Meantime polls show 80% of our Citizens are happy with their Health Care.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Everything you said is exactly my point. Younger people don't know any better. One major sickness could medically bankrupt a person and screw them over for the next 10+ years.

So, because the young sometimes make stupid decisions, we should take away there ability to choose?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

So, because the young sometimes make stupid decisions, we should take away there ability to choose?

Where exactly did I say anything like that?

Are you so used to bitching about and trying to find something wrong with everything I say that you're completely blind to the fact that I'm against the Health Care Reform that's being proposed?

Edit: If you've paid any attention to my posts over the past few months, you'd know I'm against increased social welfare in all aspects and we should be cutting people off for making stupid decisions instead of rewarding them.

[Raven]

close to 100.000 people are dying each year due to staff infections
contracted in the hospital... from non standardized
health practices as reported on the news tonight....

this is costing us 40 BILLION a year

so any health reform has to include provisions to
prevent this from happening.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Raven

close to 100.000 people are dying each year due to staff infections
contracted in the hospital... from non standardized
health practices as reported on the news tonight....

this is costing us 40 BILLION a year

so any health reform has to include provisions to
prevent this from happening.

Good point Rav, and in addition there is more and more nosocomial
resistant staph which won't respond to current antibiotics and is killing people.

Why will Pharma research and develop new antibiotics if they can't make a decent
profit.

Are they addressing non standardized health practices in the HC Bill?
We don't know and chances are your Congressmen don't know either.

[scottw]

it's sooo much better under socialized medicine...



British Hospitals Struggle to Limit ‘Superbug’ Infections

Britain has one of the worst rates of hospital-acquired M.R.S.A. bloodstream infections in Europe, second only to Greece, and the problem is getting worse. The National Audit Office, a government watchdog organization, announced this month that there had been an 8 percent increase in the number of all staphylococcus aureus, or staph, infections in the bloodstream, to 19,311 in 2004 from 17,933 in 2001. Of those, 40 percent were resistant to the antibiotic methicillin.

But that reveals only a slice of the problem because the Department of Health, which began to keep figures on the infections in 2001, does not track the existence of staph infections outside the bloodstream, in wounds or in the urinary tract.

One in 10 patients contracts a staph infection while staying in England’s hospitals, which rank among the oldest and most crowded in Western Europe. Because superbugs multiply easily in unhygienic surroundings, dirty hospital wards and unclean hands contribute to their spread from patient to patient.

[Raven]

standing operating procedures


my wife has to deal with those on a daily basis
because they work with Hospital tubes
that have to be exact sizes and all that

but to learn that hospitals don't have the same
procedures... or s.o.p's blows my mind

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Why will Pharma research and develop new antibiotics if they can't make a decent profit.

Last time I checked, a few years ago, the average margin on Pharma was around 25%...that's not a bad profit.

Two opposing factors:

1) The current pharma environment drives companies to invest in category killer drugs that will produce massive returns.

2) The potential for litigation will prevent companies from moving on high-risk R&D investments.

So there's a lot more $$$ by producing the next Viagra rather than the staph-killing antibiotic that will rot 1 in 10:000's organs.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Last time I checked, a few years ago, the average margin on Pharma was around 25%...that's not a bad profit.



-spence

No, not a bad profit for drugs after the years of research and the amount
of compounds studied to produce one, then the cost of studies to prove it is safe and effective before it goes before the FDA for final approval.

Then there are, of course, the many drugs that now keep patients out
of costly hospital stays and increase length and quality of life.

What do you think the government will consider a fair profit for development
of a new drug and why shouldn't a company develope a product where there
is a profitable market for it?

[scottw]

Barney Frank.."I've had people come to us and complain, "Well, if you do that, I can't make any money." The answer is that's not my job. We're not here to help you make money. We are here to help have a system in which you will make money as an incident of your providing funds(or drugs) to those who will use it productively(or to those who need them)."

didn't you read Newsweek...."we're all Socialists now"....Americans, American corporations and small businesses exist for the sole purpose of funding the government which is growing at exponential rates...they don't care about profits for any of these businesses because they simply take/tax whatever they think they need regardless of the damage, if the business fails it just leaves one more area for another newly created government entity to fill the void....

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Welcome back, Jim! It's been very quiet in here without you. I hope things are better.

As for your point about educating people, I don't think that's possible. The politicians don't want educated citizens. They want everyone to need the govenment to do their thinking for them.

nope, no better, still in limbo, just waiting. Thank god for Hospice.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Jim:
thoughts are with you and yours bud...

if you need a night out and want company, give me a shout.

[justplugit]

Take care, Jim. My P+T are with you.

[UserRemoved1]

these assclowns are going to tell you how to raise your kids...SUUUUUUUURE

http://townhall.com/columnists/Chuck...1_in_obamacare

[justplugit]

Had the opportunity to watch the Arlen Specter Town Hall Meeting in Lebanon Pa. and the NH Obama Broadway Show today.

Imho, the PA. citizens took Senator Specter to the wood shed with their
knowledge of the HC Bill. They knew their stuff and stood and exercised their their freedom of speech.
The Senator had admitted previously he needed himself and 10 lawyers to know what was in the Bill.

When the President in NH, was asked how they would pay for the bill he admitted
they were exploring ways. Buy something then figure out how to pay for it?

When he was asked how they would attract new Doctors and Nurses he said
they would help finance education for Primary Care Physicians. No mention
of the additional costs to educate the Specialists that can require another 2-4 years of training or that the HC Bill Sec 1501 pg. 659-670 - Doctors in Residency calls for the government to tell the Physician where he will do his residency.
A lot of fine print hidden in this bill.

Imho today's score:

Gun/Bible clinging, astroturf, status quo, American citizens -1
Elitist intellectuals_______________________________-0

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Imho, the PA. citizens took Senator Specter to the wood shed with their
knowledge of the HC Bill. They knew their stuff and stood and exercised their their freedom of speech.
The Senator had admitted previously he needed himself and 10 lawyers to know what was in the Bill.

When the President in NH, was asked how they would pay for the bill he admitted
they were exploring ways. Buy something then figure out how to pay for it?

When he was asked how they would attract new Doctors and Nurses he said
they would help finance education for Primary Care Physicians. No mention
of the additional costs to educate the Specialists that can require another 2-4 years of training or that the HC Bill Sec 1501 pg. 659-670 - Doctors in Residency calls for the government to tell the Physician where he will do his residency.
A lot of fine print hidden in this bill.

Imho today's score:

Gun/Bible clinging, astroturf, status quo, American citizens -1
Elitist intellectuals_______________________________-0

I didn't see that one, but from the one's I have seen, it's been people just screaming propaganda. Repeating the same paranoid stuff I hear on Conservative radio.

Like Newt and Palin talking about how terrible the "Death Panels" will be, even though there is nothing like that in the bill. But like Newt said, "The bill is 1000 pages long. No one knows what is in it."

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I didn't see that one, but from the one's I have seen, it's been people just screaming propaganda. Repeating the same paranoid stuff I hear on Conservative radio."

I keep hearing about paranoid Conservative radio. There are a lot of different shows accross the country that I have no knowledge of, but the few that I have access to seem quite reasoned. I hear reasoned, well thought-out objections to the national plan, expressing, I assume, many of the valid points that you allude to (though you have not yet expressed them here, so I don't know if they're the same valid points that you have). Also, the shows that I listen to, have many Liberal callers and they are given time to express their opinions. A couple put Liberal callers on first. One host can be gruff to what he considers stupidity, but the others are quite civil.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I keep hearing about paranoid Conservative radio. There are a lot of different shows accross the country that I have no knowledge of, but the few that I have access to seem quite reasoned. I hear reasoned, well thought-out objections to the national plan, expressing, I assume, many of the valid points that you allude to (though you have not yet expressed them here, so I don't know if they're the same valid points that you have). Also, the shows that I listen to, have many Liberal callers and they are given time to express their opinions. A couple put Liberal callers on first. One host can be gruff to what he considers stupidity, but the others are quite civil.

While they may be reasoned, well thought-out objections (and I have no doubt many are), I have also heard a large number that leave out part of the facts to suit their political agenda or completely misconstrue the facts to get their target audience fired up.

Now, I'm not saying the Dems are innocent of this behavior. They do the same thing. Just about every Dem Congressman/woman I have heard in a radio or tv interview is also guilty of this. The difference is that there is hardly a following for left-wing radio media - and also that they are infrequently referenced as a source.

[scottw]

the best thing that has happened politically in 2009 for Republicans was Arlen Spector becoming a democrat....he represents his new party very well

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

leave out part of the facts to suit their political agenda or completely misconstrue the facts

like when Obama says he's not for single payer?

btw, Blowhard Obama keeps talking about what "IS" and "IS NOT" in his plan...can we actually see the Obama plan? We have the house plan, which Obama clearly hasn't read....are we just supposed to take his word when he TELLS us what his plan contains and does not contain or should he present something in writing...his is a constant liar after all.....

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I didn't see that one, but from the one's I have seen, it's been people just screaming propaganda. Repeating the same paranoid stuff I hear on Conservative radio.

JD, if you get a chance, listen to one the whole way through. I'm fortunate to have the time.
I believe you will find the majority of the people have genuine concerns about
the HC Bill , Cap and Trade, The Stimulus, as well as concerns for the direction our country is heading.

The news always shows the sensational excerpts of these meetings so it is slanted towards the angry screamers rather then a group of average American Citizens who have done their homework and want answers to the tough questions.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

JD, if you get a chance, listen to one the whole way through. I'm fortunate to have the time.
I believe you will find the majority of the people have genuine concerns about
the HC Bill , Cap and Trade, The Stimulus, as well as concerns for the direction our country is heading.

The news always shows the sensational excerpts of these meetings so it is slanted towards the angry screamers rather then a group of average American Citizens who have done their homework and want answers to the tough questions.

I wish I could. Hell, I'd even be interested in attending one if I had the time. I have watched 10-15 minutes here and there on CSPAN. In those 15 minutes, I noticed two things: a majority of people have no idea what they're talking about(on both sides of the argument), and much time was wasted in educating people, and the people that appeared to know what they were talking about were spouting questions that have already been answered 100 times on any of the major news stations.

This is pretty consistent with my previous experiences with "Town Hall" type meetings. My company has provided equipment for a ton of town meetings in towns like Westwood and Mansfield, places where the residents are a part of the legislative process.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

While they may be reasoned, well thought-out objections (and I have no doubt many are), I have also heard a large number that leave out part of the facts to suit their political agenda or completely misconstrue the facts to get their target audience fired up.

As I said, many liberals call in to the shows that I hear, and they give their perspective and fill in what the host leaves out. Some are very knowledgeable and, occaisionally get the better of the host. Some of the programs (e.g. Michael Medved, Dennis Praegur, Dennis Miller, and others) periodically invite notable liberals to debate their views on a segment of the show. "Right Wing" talk radio is not as one sided and bombastic as you perceive it to be. It is, actually, an alternative media outlet for information and opinion that is hard to come by (for those like you and I) that don't have the time to scour.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by detbuch

It is, actually, an alternative media outlet for information and opinion that is hard to come by (for those like you and I) that don't have the time to scour.

I can agree with this. I try to be critical of just about information I come across - my own included. Conservative radio is readily available. If there was a similarly based source and following for Liberal radio, I guarantee people's criticism of polar views with conveniently left out information would translate fully to Liberal hosts.