No mental health issue in america.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You’re being so simpleminded thatbyoy cant concwdenthenother side has a point. You’ll point to anything to make conservatism look bad.

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Most ironic statement I have seen from you. Especially the simple minded part. You put out a bunch of points that are factually incorrect. Then when I give you actual available data,you say I will point out anything to make conservatism look bad. So are you saying conservatism is based on misinformation and inaccuracies? We could agree on that.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Most ironic statement I have seen from you. Especially the simple minded part. You put out a bunch of points that are factually incorrect. Then when I give you actual available data,you say I will point out anything to make conservatism look bad. So are you saying conservatism is based on misinformation and inaccuracies? We could agree on that.
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Your data was selective and misleading.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Your data was selective and misleading.

Ok, find where and give data that contradicts it, specifically your nonsense about lower birthrates due to higher rates of abortion.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Ok, find where and give data that contradicts it, specifically your nonsense about lower birthrates due to higher rates of abortion.

I did. The rates of abortion for blacks has risen, not only in your selective time range, but consistently from previous to that and after that. And that has happened consistently even under Democrat administrations, not just Republican as you suggest. In N.Y. city alone, more blacks are aborted than are born.

Here is a part of what I posted before:
"In 2010, the black population in the U.S. stood just shy of at 39 million. The CDC reports that during the 1970's, roughly 24% of all U.S. abortions were performed on black women. That percentage rose to 30% in the 1980's, 34% in the 1990's and 36% in the 2000's. That means that about 31% of all U.S. abortions since 1973 have been performed on African American women. Based on the January 2013 estimate that there have been 55.7 million abortions in the United States since 1973, we can deduce that approximately 17 million of the aborted babies were black.

"Despite an overall black population growth of 12% between 2000 and 2010, the U.S. Census Bureau reports that the black population "grew at a slower rate than most other major race and ethnic groups in the country." CBS News reported in 2009 that "Hispanics have surpassed blacks as the nation's largest minority group." Can there be any question about the role abortion has played in this demographic shift? Despite similar population numbers, Hispanic women account for approximately 19% of U.S. abortions whereas African-American women account for up to 36%. From 1973 to 2012, abortion reduced the black population by 30%, and that doesn't even factor in all the children that would have been born to those aborted a generation ago. To put it bluntly, abortion has thinned the black community in ways the Ku Klux Klan could have only dreamed of."

In 1950 the Black population in the U.S. was about 15 million. Since 1973 about 17 million Blacks (more than the entire Black population at the time we were discussing) were aborted. On average almost 1900 Blacks are aborted every day in the U.S. In N.Y. City more Blacks are aborted than are born. Blacks in the U.S. are aborted at 3 times the rate as whites."

The black population today would be exponentially much higher today if the rates of their abortions had not risen, or if it had lowered or approached zero. Without the higher rates of abortion, Blacks would not have been surpassed in population by Latinos.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I did. The rates of abortion for blacks has risen, not only in your selective time range, but consistently from previous to that and after that. And that has happened consistently even under Democrat administrations, not just Republican as you suggest. In N.Y. city alone, more blacks are aborted than are born.

Here is a part of what I posted before:
"In 2010, the black population in the U.S. stood just shy of at 39 million. The CDC reports that during the 1970's, roughly 24% of all U.S. abortions were performed on black women. That percentage rose to 30% in the 1980's, 34% in the 1990's and 36% in the 2000's. That means that about 31% of all U.S. abortions since 1973 have been performed on African American women. Based on the January 2013 estimate that there have been 55.7 million abortions in the United States since 1973, we can deduce that approximately 17 million of the aborted babies were black.

"Despite an overall black population growth of 12% between 2000 and 2010, the U.S. Census Bureau reports that the black population "grew at a slower rate than most other major race and ethnic groups in the country." CBS News reported in 2009 that "Hispanics have surpassed blacks as the nation's largest minority group." Can there be any question about the role abortion has played in this demographic shift? Despite similar population numbers, Hispanic women account for approximately 19% of U.S. abortions whereas African-American women account for up to 36%. From 1973 to 2012, abortion reduced the black population by 30%, and that doesn't even factor in all the children that would have been born to those aborted a generation ago. To put it bluntly, abortion has thinned the black community in ways the Ku Klux Klan could have only dreamed of."

In 1950 the Black population in the U.S. was about 15 million. Since 1973 about 17 million Blacks (more than the entire Black population at the time we were discussing) were aborted. On average almost 1900 Blacks are aborted every day in the U.S. In N.Y. City more Blacks are aborted than are born. Blacks in the U.S. are aborted at 3 times the rate as whites."

The black population today would be exponentially much higher today if the rates of their abortions had not risen, or if it had lowered or approached zero. Without the higher rates of abortion, Blacks would not have been surpassed in population by Latinos.

"In N.Y. city alone, more blacks are aborted than are born."

Which was the goal of Margaret Sanger, the racist/eugenicist, who was the fonder (I think) of Planned Parenthood.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I did. The rates of abortion for blacks has risen, not only in your selective time range, but consistently from previous to that and after that. And that has happened consistently even under Democrat administrations, not just Republican as you suggest. In N.Y. city alone, more blacks are aborted than are born.


In 1950 the Black population in the U.S. was about 15 million. Since 1973 about 17 million Blacks (more than the entire Black population at the time we were discussing) were aborted. On average almost 1900 Blacks are aborted every day in the U.S. In N.Y. City more Blacks are aborted than are born. Blacks in the U.S. are aborted at 3 times the rate as whites."

Your analysis of the data and your conclusions are fundamentally flawed. Abortion rate is number of abortions per 1000 women. It has fallen dramatically across all groups.
You are comparing abortions among ethnic groups as a percent of total number of abortions. It is correct to say it has fallen less for blacks than other groups. It is correct to say that it is higher in blacks as a percent of population and that the percentage of the total has increased. It is incorrect to say the rate has gone up. Factually incorrect.

If there were only three abortions last year and two were black and one white, you could say 66 percent of abortions were black. That would be a higher percent than ever. It would not mean there were more abortions than ever. It does not support your statement that birth rates have dropped due to abortions.

All else equal, a drop in abortion rates and a drop in birth rates means a drop in pregnancy rates, which refutes your statement.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Your analysis of the data and your conclusions are fundamentally flawed. Abortion rate is number of abortions per 1000 women. It has fallen dramatically across all groups.
You are comparing abortions among ethnic groups as a percent of total number of abortions. It is correct to say it has fallen less for blacks than other groups. It is correct to say that it is higher in blacks as a percent of population and that the percentage of the total has increased. It is incorrect to say the rate has gone up. Factually incorrect.

If there were only three abortions last year and two were black and one white, you could say 66 percent of abortions were black. That would be a higher percent than ever. It would not mean there were more abortions than ever. It does not support your statement that birth rates have dropped due to abortions.
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And he's an actuarial
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Most ironic statement I have seen from you. Especially the simple minded part. You put out a bunch of points that are factually incorrect. Then when I give you actual available data,you say I will point out anything to make conservatism look bad. So are you saying conservatism is based on misinformation and inaccuracies? We could agree on that.
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Posting data comparing the 1980s to today, has nothing to do with my beliefs about the 1950s. The 1980s happened a long time after the 1950s. Look it up if you don't believe me.

I also never said the 1950s were utopia. You put stupid words in my mouth, which is what simpletons do when the other guy has a point, but you won't admit it.

In the 1950s, American culture had a view of what a "family" was, and how it was supposed to function, that I believe is far superior to the current view of what a family is. Two parents committed to the family and the kids, one parent staying home during the early years, not leaving 3 year-olds in daycare for 10 hours a day being raised by God knows who. Parents sticking together even when it's brutally hard. Eating dinner together and talking and listening, instead of everyone watching TV or on their phones.

Kooky ideas, I know. Those zany olden times!! Hell, I'm so old I remember when it wasn't considered controversial to suggest that if you have a wee wee, you go to the mens room. I know, I'm a dinosaur.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Posting data comparing the 1980s to today, has nothing to do with my beliefs about the 1950s. The 1980s happened a long time after the 1950s. Look it up if you don't believe me.

I also never said the 1950s were utopia. You put stupid words in my mouth, which is what simpletons do when the other guy has a point, but you won't admit it.

In the 1950s, American culture had a view of what a "family" was, and how it was supposed to function, that I believe is far superior to the current view of what a family is. Two parents committed to the family and the kids, one parent staying home during the early years, not leaving 3 year-olds in daycare for 10 hours a day being raised by God knows who. Parents sticking together even when it's brutally hard. Eating dinner together and talking and listening, instead of everyone watching TV or on their phones.

Kooky ideas, I know. Those zany olden times!! Hell, I'm so old I remember when it wasn't considered controversial to suggest that if you have a wee wee, you go to the mens room. I know, I'm a dinosaur.

You probably understand that my posts about the 1980's show how crime, abortion rates, childbirth rates, etc. have all declined dramatically- the point of 1950's levels, though many desperately want to make America something it never was again . It shows the changes over a long period of time, which is beneficial for analyzing data. Major ways today really is different from the 1950's: minimum wage adjusted for inflation- much lower today; top marginal top tax rate: 1/3 of what is was in the 1950's; spending power- lower today, attributed by some experts to the fact that 1/3 of workers were unionized in the 1950's.
We can agree then on higher top tax rates, more unions, and higher minimum wages?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

You probably understand that my posts about the 1980's show how crime, abortion rates, childbirth rates, etc. have all declined dramatically- the point of 1950's levels, though many desperately want to make America something it never was again . It shows the changes over a long period of time, which is beneficial for analyzing data. Major ways today really is different from the 1950's: minimum wage adjusted for inflation- much lower today; top marginal top tax rate: 1/3 of what is was in the 1950's; spending power- lower today, attributed by some experts to the fact that 1/3 of workers were unionized in the 1950's.
We can agree then on higher top tax rates, more unions, and higher minimum wages?

"You probably understand that my posts about the 1980's show how crime, abortion rates, childbirth rates, etc. have all declined dramatically"

They have declined since the 1980s. I didn't utter s syllable about the 1980s, nor did I utter a syllable suggesting that these things were at all time highs today. If I did, your stats from the 1980s would be relevant.

"Major ways today really is different from the 1950's: minimum wage adjusted for inflation- much lower today; top marginal top tax rate: 1/3 of what is was in the 1950's; spending power- lower today, attributed by some experts to the fact that 1/3 of workers were unionized in the 1950's.
We can agree then on higher top tax rates, more unions, and higher minimum wages?"

When you ignore all the things that I say were better in the 1950s, and you focus on the things you think were better in the 1950s, you aren't fooling anybody.

Yes, many things you say were different in the 1950s, were different in the manner you stated.

If I say family values were better in the 1950s than they are today, you cannot refute that by pointing pout that the 1980s were worse than today.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"
When you ignore all the things that I say were better in the 1950s, and you focus on the things you think were better in the 1950s, you aren't fooling anybody.

When you say ignore all the things, you say were better...everything I addressed about the 1980s, I concurrently addressed in reference to the 1950s.
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