Boston Tea Party on The Common

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Who proved they did?

-spence

Actually, you didn't answer my question.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Actually, you didn't answer my question.

Which was based on circular logic...

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Which was based on circular logic...

-spence

My question was not based upon the discipline of logic, circular or otherwise. It was a simple query regarding your non-sequitur.

Buckman opined that the media portrayed the TEA PARTY movement poorly. Your response to that was that you thought REPUBLICANS were the party of "self-responsibility." I don't see the connection. Perhaps you are a victim of the media's "poor portrayal" of the tea party (or tea baggers as you refer to them--nice portrayal!) in that you equate the tea party with the Republican Party. So then, I suppose, in your estimation, the portrayal of the tea party also portrays the Republican Party. That is erroneous. Tea partiers are against Republican malfeasance as well as Democrat. But, I expect that sort of biased (centrist?) comment from you.

My question was, also, not based on that. I was merely wondering how being responsible for one's own actions can stop someone else from lying about you, or having and stating a biased, slanted, untrue view of you. The answer is, of course (since you're unable to answer a simple question--I will), YOU CAN'T.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

My question was not based upon the discipline of logic, circular or otherwise. It was a simple query regarding your non-sequitur.

Buckman opined that the media portrayed the TEA PARTY movement poorly. Your response to that was that you thought REPUBLICANS were the party of "self-responsibility." I don't see the connection. Perhaps you are a victim of the media's "poor portrayal" of the tea party (or tea baggers as you refer to them--nice portrayal!) in that you equate the tea party with the Republican Party. So then, I suppose, in your estimation, the portrayal of the tea party also portrays the Republican Party. That is erroneous. Tea partiers are against Republican malfeasance as well as Democrat. But, I expect that sort of biased (centrist?) comment from you.

My question was, also, not based on that. I was merely wondering how being responsible for one's own actions can stop someone else from lying about you, or having and stating a biased, slanted, untrue view of you. The answer is, of course (since you're unable to answer a simple question--I will), YOU CAN'T.

it's sad that you actually had to explain this to him....funny that the narrow-minded sentiments being expressed toward this particular group, by some, rival the most vile and twisted thinking that you'd find expressed by committed racists, sexists and homophobes...a mindless disdain for a group based on little more than an opinion formed by observation from afar and irrrational ingrained biases.....these are the truly intolerant...the supporters of the Socialist Movement in this country who are feeling their power currently react with vengance to any opposition....from the president on down, this is the example being set ....nice huh?...70% of Arizonans want the problem of illegal aliens and crime and border issues to be rectified and Obama calls them and the legislation to deal with these problems misguided??? no, we have an angry misguided radical president who is at war with America, he leads a socialist movement at war with an American movement...if you want to be frightened by the fringe of a movement, take a close look at the fringe of Obama's movement...many are/were in or this administration or advise this president....the rhetoric, slurs, attacks and instances of violence from this president, congressional leaders, unions and the left wing minions on ordinary Americans are far worse than any sign, any tee shirt or event at any of the Tea Parties to date...but you would never know that from watching "the media", would ya Spence? and the tea parties have the audacity to speak out against this dictator..."THE ONE" and as such cannot be tolerated, must be crushed...

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Why would there be more people at the Tax Day Rally? A majority of Tea Party participants believe the taxes that they pay is fair.

They aren't being misrepresented... they're portraying themselves poorly.

you keep making this claim JD...but I'm pretty sure you found this nugget in the NY Times poll and column posted earlier in the thread...if you read the link...this claim and supposition was based on a NY Times poll of 800 people that claimed to represent the tea party....you may as well have formed your opinion from a Pravda poll...

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

My question was not based upon the discipline of logic, circular or otherwise. It was a simple query regarding your non-sequitur.

Buckman opined that the media portrayed the TEA PARTY movement poorly. Your response to that was that you thought REPUBLICANS were the party of "self-responsibility." I don't see the connection. Perhaps you are a victim of the media's "poor portrayal" of the tea party (or tea baggers as you refer to them--nice portrayal!) in that you equate the tea party with the Republican Party. So then, I suppose, in your estimation, the portrayal of the tea party also portrays the Republican Party. That is erroneous. Tea partiers are against Republican malfeasance as well as Democrat. But, I expect that sort of biased (centrist?) comment from you.

My question was, also, not based on that. I was merely wondering how being responsible for one's own actions can stop someone else from lying about you, or having and stating a biased, slanted, untrue view of you. The answer is, of course (since you're unable to answer a simple question--I will), YOU CAN'T.

There is no non sequitur pointing out irony or hypocrisy. Your statement assumed a conclusion that the media has indeed portrayed the tea party poorly. This is an opinion and one I wouldn't share.

As to the Tea Party being Republicans. Every statistic I've seen indicates the VAST majority of those who claim association also vote Republican, poll like Republicans, have their events endorsed by Republicans and use Republicans as their celebrities. The Tea Party is indeed an off-shoot of the Republican party.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

There is no non sequitur pointing out irony or hypocrisy. Your statement assumed a conclusion that the media has indeed portrayed the tea party poorly. This is an opinion and one I wouldn't share.

My question made no assumptions. (Quote:"How does being self responsible stop someone else from portraying you poorly?") I did not mention the tea party, Republicans, any person or group in particular. The question asked, for the umpteenth time, IN GENERAL how being self responsible stops someone else from portraying you poorly.

As far as the tea party goes, how does not acting in a homo-sexual manner stop others from referring to them as "tea baggers?" How does the VAST majority not acting in a racist manner stop others from accusing them of being racists? How does not blowing up things and not killing people stop others from calling them the next coming of Timothy McVeigh?

And as for how "the media" has portrayed the tea party--it depends on which "media". Some have portrayed them very favorably. Some, very negatively. Some neutraly.

As to the Tea Party being Republicans. Every statistic I've seen indicates the VAST majority of those who claim association also vote Republican, poll like Republicans, have their events endorsed by Republicans and use Republicans as their celebrities. The Tea Party is indeed an off-shoot of the Republican party.

-spence

The tea party and the Republican Party may have a lot in common, but they are not the same. Yes, it consists of many, most likely a majority of Republicans. It also contains many Libertarians and Democrats. It is not an off-shoot of the Republican party. If anything, the Republicans are trying to ride its coatails into the next election. Some have warned the tea partiers not to be co-opted by the GOP. I assume (and this, not my previous QUESTION, is and assumption) that tea partiers will vote for those who campaign in favor of their concerns. If that be Republicans, so be it. If Democrats cannot abide those concerns, then they will, as is always done in politics, marginalize, misrepresent, and in any way possible discredit the tea party movement.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

My question made no assumptions. (Quote:"How does being self responsible stop someone else from portraying you poorly?") I did not mention the tea party, Republicans, any person or group in particular. The question asked, for the umpteenth time, IN GENERAL how being self responsible stops someone else from portraying you poorly.

Without context your question makes little sense. The response to Buck was clearly in context of both the Tea Party and Republicans.

As far as the tea party goes, how does not acting in a homo-sexual manner stop others from referring to them as "tea baggers?"

Members of the Tea Party themselves started using this name and that is news. Additionally, you can't blame anyone for enjoying the irony...at least just a bit

How does the VAST majority not acting in a racist manner stop others from accusing them of being racists? How does not blowing up things and not killing people stop others from calling them the next coming of Timothy McVeigh?

There are certainly valid news stories of racial and violent language images being used in Tea Party protests. And it is the responsibility of the media to raise the question if this is pervasive in the movement, or if the movement's leadership is in fact enjoying or inciting this behavior.

Across the board the mainstream reporting on this issue has focused on the individuals and not white washed the entire movement like you have done above. Then again, when FOX News rants about some liberal blog posting, people seem to think that's a big story.

And as for how "the media" has portrayed the tea party--it depends on which "media". Some have portrayed them very favorably. Some, very negatively. Some neutraly.

It sounds like you're assessing the overall coverage as quite neutral overall. Good, the media should be neutral. Glad we can agree again.

tea party and the Republican Party may have a lot in common, but they are not the same. Yes, it consists of many, most likely a majority of Republicans. It also contains many Libertarians and Democrats. It is not an off-shoot of the Republican party. If anything, the Republicans are trying to ride its coatails into the next election. Some have warned the tea partiers not to be co-opted by the GOP. I assume (and this, not my previous QUESTION, is and assumption) that tea partiers will vote for those who campaign in favor of their concerns. If that be Republicans, so be it. If Democrats cannot abide those concerns, then they will, as is always done in politics, marginalize, misrepresent, and in any way possible discredit the tea party movement.

Keep Palin and Bachman on stage and the party will do plenty to discredit themselves.

The sad part is that close to election day voters will return to their party of choice, and for the vast majority of the Tea Party that will be the GOP.

-spence

[scottw]

I guess what is ironic and hypocritical here is that Spence, someone who routinely questions the intellecutal value of the statements of others, is continuing to defend what was a completely inane statement of his own..... and apparently does not recognize this...very entertaining

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Without context your question makes little sense. The response to Buck was clearly in context of both the Tea Party and Republicans.

A question IN GENERAL applies to all contexts. Its intrinsic context is universal. My question can be applied to the "context" of a supposed irony that members of the Tea Party and the Republican Party, supposedly being "self responsible" should not "blame" (your accusatorial locution) the "media" for poorly portraying them. It is beyond irony to the point of being ridiculous to imply, as you did, that being "self responsible" either is supposed to somehow shield one from being poorly portrayed, or if one is, that one should not blame the portrayer but assume that being accused, since you're "self responsible" you are guilty.

There are certainly valid news stories of racial and violent language images being used in Tea Party protests. And it is the responsibility of the media to raise the question if this is pervasive in the movement, or if the movement's leadership is in fact enjoying or inciting this behavior.

So, since the "media" has loudly "raised the question" and has quietly not found racism and violence to be pervasive in the movement, I assume that we can dismiss such charges by various "media" pundits and Democrat politicians.

Across the board the mainstream reporting on this issue has focused on the individuals and not white washed the entire movement like you have done above.

What did I white wash the movement of?

Then again, when FOX News rants about some liberal blog posting, people seem to think that's a big story.

So, if the "media" talks about violent and racial "language" being used by "individuals" at tea party gatherings, that is "valid" news, but if FOX News talks about an individual blog posting, that is "ranting"?

It sounds like you're assessing the overall coverage as quite neutral overall. Good, the media should be neutral. Glad we can agree again.

I don't know if overall it is neutral. I, as probably most tea partiers are, am not concerned one way or the other.

Keep Palin and Bachman on stage and the party will do plenty to discredit themselves.

Discredit in what way?

The sad part is that close to election day voters will return to their party of choice, and for the vast majority of the Tea Party that will be the GOP.

-spence

Why is that, if true, sad?