Fox News Tells It Like It Is

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by lamigsb1

The shutdown is the equivalent of the starting pitcher leaving with the only game ball after the coach pulls him in the top of the 8th.
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The White House offered a one-year amnesty to companies. Meaning, companies could sign up for Obamacare if they wished to, but they would not be penalized for not signing up.

The GOP is asking that individuals get the same break. How is that unfair, particularly in light of the fact, the irrefutable fact, that most people cannot enroll even if they try to, because the system doesn't work? Are you OK with getting fined, because the administration couldn't connect a server?

And I thought liberals liked to get worked up about not putting the interests of corporations above those of the individual? Isn't that what the whole Occupy Wall Street movement was about? All the liberals supported them. Seems to me, that what the GOP is asking for, is exactly in line with the agenda of the Occupy Wall Street (that, and they wanted to be able to poop in the park, and to sack/pillage all surrounding businesses like the Vikings, but I digress).

It takes two to shut down. All Obama had to do, was be willing to give individuals the same break he was giving to Big Business. I would have thought Obama was OK with that notion.

[buckman]

Taxes and revenue continue to come in at record levels .
This is all BS and Constitutionally it's impossible to default.
I hope the few people in congress that are truly looking out for our future hold fast !
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It takes two to shut down.

Funny, the majority of the population doesn't feel that way and is blaming the Repubs. much more than the Dems. Is extortion a way to negotiate?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Funny, the majority of the population doesn't feel that way and is blaming the Repubs. much more than the Dems. Is extortion a way to negotiate?

When your doing the right thing , you don't worry about what's in it for you.
Explain your last comment ? I'm confused
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Taxes and revenue continue to come in at record levels .
This is all BS and Constitutionally it's impossible to default.
I hope the few people in congress that are truly looking out for our future hold fast !
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Wow, you've drank A LOT of Kool-Aid.

Buck, the Tea Party is holding the entire country hostage. Bohner has lost control and the PACs are openly threatenening any Republicans who plays ball.

The proposed House Bill that imploded yesterday was more about gaining talking points on the HCB than striking a deal.

Bohner and Cantor need to rally and quick.

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[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Wow, you've drank A LOT of Kool-Aid.
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Explain how I'm wrong. Something like 200 billion coming in each month and like 20 billion in interest per month needs to be paid to prevent a default. That 20 billion has to be paid unless the President illegally orders the treasuries not to pay it . I believe that's how it works but your clearly the expert so learn me
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Explain how I'm wrong. Something like 200 billion coming in each month and like 20 billion in interest per month needs to be paid to prevent a default. That 20 billion has to be paid unless the President illegally orders the treasuries not to pay it . I believe that's how it works but your clearly the expert so learn me
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First off, our total interest outlays are a lot more than 20 B a month, it's like 400 B for the entire year.

Second, you still have the fund the other 80% still running or the economy implodes. We don't keep all that much cash under the mattress.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

First off, our total interest outlays are a lot more than 20 B a month, it's like 400 B for the entire year.

Second, you still have the fund the other 80% still running or the economy implodes. We don't keep all that much cash under the mattress.
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So your saying we can pay the dept but the rest is unsustainable on the income we generate , which at its current level is higher then ever before .
Sounds like your coming around.
Might even make you wonder how this can work if the dept hits 20 trillion by 2016 ,as projected ,
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

So your saying we can pay the dept but the rest is unsustainable on the income we generate , which at its current level is higher then ever before .
Sounds like your coming around.
Might even make you wonder how this can work if the dept hits 20 trillion by 2016 ,as projected ,
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Oh yea, I'm coming around

How does that equation look with a recession and less cashflow?
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[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

The proposed House Bill that imploded yesterday was more about gaining talking points on the HCB than striking a deal.

Bohner and Cantor need to rally and quick.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ty-rift-video/

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Funny, the majority of the population doesn't feel that way and is blaming the Repubs. much more than the Dems. Is extortion a way to negotiate?

Paul, you are correct that polls show that most blame the GOP. That doesn't make me wrong, when I say that (1) what the GOP is asking for, is not unreasonable, and that (2) Obama c ould have avoided the shutdown by agreeing to their reasonable demands.

Paul, a simple question...do YOU think it's unreasonable for the GOP to ask that Obama give the same break to individuals that he is giving to companies, especially since individuals cannot sign up even if they wanted to? Yes or no?

"Is extortion a way to negotiate?"

Funny. When the Wisconsin legialature was going to reduce union benefits, and all the Dems in the state senate fled the state to halt the vote, I don't recall all this backlash against them. In Texas, when that Democratic state rep fillibustered for 24 hours to prevent an anti-abortion bill, she was hailed as a hero. When democrate are in the minority, I keep heraing that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism". When a black Democrat is in the white house, dissent is racist and extortion. IS that what you're saying?

I don't like the shutdown. I particularly don't like it when our petty, vindictive President goes to unimaginable lengths to make it as painful as possible for WWII vets and families of those killed in action. If you're OK with Obama's actions there, that's your right. But those actions are a betrayal of the most basic duties of his office. He's a disgrace.

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by spence

Oh yea, I'm coming around

How does that equation look with a recession and less cashflow?
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Looks like my kid should start mandarin classes soon
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

How does that equation look with a recession and less cashflow?
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The future if we keep kicking the can down the road as you prefer to do .
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Is extortion a way to negotiate?"

Funny. When the Wisconsin legialature was going to reduce union benefits, and all the Dems in the state senate fled the state to halt the vote, I don't recall all this backlash against them.There was plenty of backlash. I'm sure you even started threads about it. In Texas, when that Democratic state rep fillibustered for 24 hours to prevent an anti-abortion bill, she was hailed as a hero. so filibustering is the same as saying if you don't do everything we like, we'll close down the government ?When democrate are in the minority, I keep heraing that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism". No one has said people don't have the right to dissent - it is the whiney, unreasonablness and crying that is going on that is turning people against the Repubs. in general and the TP in particular. When a black Democrat is in the white house, dissent is racist and extortion. IS that what you're saying?Who, other than you said it was racism? I'm sure some of the complaining of the Pres. has it's basis in racism but since that is difficult to prove, I don't recall people saying that. Do you have any links to any mainstream press articles calling it racism? I know that is thrown around a lot here, yet I don't see anyone actually saying it is b/c of racism. I do know that if there is crime committed against a white person by a black person, or if someone posts something about A. Sharpton/J. Jackson it brings people out of the woodwork who hardly ever post here.

I don't like the shutdown. I particularly don't like it when our petty, vindictive President goes to unimaginable lengths to make it as painful as possible for WWII vets and families of those killed in action. If you're OK with Obama's actions there, that's your right. But those actions are a betrayal of the most basic duties of his office. He's a disgrace.

So you want to pick and choose what should stay open or what aspects of the govern. should stay in force? Did the Pres. specifically do something to prevent the benefits paid to those families or are they not being paid bc of the lack of action of Repub. lead House?

[Raven]

i have ALIEN DNA

from those in the star system Sirius

therefore i am considered multi species human/alien

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So you want to pick and choose what should stay open or what aspects of the govern. should stay in force? Did the Pres. specifically do something to prevent the benefits paid to those families or are they not being paid bc of the lack of action of Repub. lead House?

"Did the Pres. specifically do something to prevent the benefits paid"

Yes, he did. He chose not to sign an Executive Order to demand those payments be made. That was within his authority to do, and he chose not to do it. It's unbelievably cruel, an unthinkable betrayal.

"There was plenty of backlash. I'm sure you even started threads about it"

PaulS, here is my point, and read slowly because it's a valid point...there was no backlash from your side. There is only backlash when conservatives act like brats.

Paul, I answered your points. You, on the other hand, completely dodged a very simple yes or no question that I asked. So I'll ask it again. Please show me the same courtesy that I showed you, and answer my question, which is as follows...

do YOU think it's unreasonable for the GOP to ask that Obama give the same break to individuals that he is giving to companies, especially since individuals cannot sign up even if they wanted to? Yes or no?

"Who, other than you said it was racism?"

OK Paul. Now you are saying that no one claims that those who oppose Obama, do so because of racism? No one has said that? No one in Washington, no one in the media, not Jimmy Carter? No one has called the Tea Party racist? Obama himself, didn't say that the McCain campaign was going to try and make people afraid of the fact that he's black? Obama didn't say that?

Google it yourself if you can't be bothered to answer one yes/no question that I asked...

[Jim in CT]

Paul, here is what then-canbdidate Obam asaid about John McCain in 2008...

"We know what kind of campaign they’re going to run,” said the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. “They’re going to try to make you afraid. They’re going to try to make you afraid of me. ‘He’s young and inexperienced and he’s got a funny name. And did I mention he’s black?’"

McCain is a decent guy, a war hero who made unthinkable sacrifices for his country. He was generous enough to adopt a BLACK GIRL FROM A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY, and your hero said McCain was a racist.

When McCain didn't run a racist campaign, did Obama apologize? Did he admit he was wrong? Nope.

Have fun with that...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Did the Pres. specifically do something to prevent the benefits paid"

Yes, he did. He chose not to sign an Executive Order to demand those payments be made. That was within his authority to do, and he chose not to do it. It's unbelievably cruel, an unthinkable betrayal.
So again, you want to pick and choose what should stay open - it was unbelievably cruel, an unthinkable betrayal that the TP choose to allow that vets. families not to be paid their benefits. The TP is a disgrace. I can think a lot of things both sides would have like to continue with.
"There was plenty of backlash. I'm sure you even started threads about it"

PaulS, here is my point, and read slowly because it's a valid point...there was no backlash from your side. There is only backlash when conservatives act like brats.So you want backlash from liberals when liberals acts like brats? Where is the conservative backlast now that conservatives are acting like brats? Read that again slowly so you understand.

Paul, I answered your points. You, on the other hand, completely dodged a very simple yes or no question that I asked. So I'll ask it again. Please show me the same courtesy that I showed you, and answer my question, which is as follows...

do YOU think it's unreasonable for the GOP to ask that Obama give the same break to individuals that he is giving to companies, especially since individuals cannot sign up even if they wanted to? Yes or no?They can ask for anything they want. Why wasn't the individual mandate postponed? Your an actuary so you should be able to figure it out. I'm surprised you aren't happy that he postponed part of it. Or is it that you'll complain about anything that he does?

"Who, other than you said it was racism?"

OK Paul. Now you are saying that no one claims that those who oppose Obama, do so because of racism? Who brought up racism in this thread? No one has said that? No one in Washington, no one in the media, not Jimmy Carter? No one has called the Tea Party racist? Weren't there many racist posters early on until the TP leadership types told people to tone it down? Don't a large % still believe he is Muslim? But this talk of racism is getting off track since I haven't seen anyone state the budget fight was a results of racism other you here. Obama himself, didn't say that the McCain campaign was going to try and make people afraid of the fact that he's black? Obama didn't say that?

Google it yourself if you can't be bothered to answer one yes/no question that I asked...

NM

[spence]

I don't the Obama coulda have done anything on death benefits via executive order without Congressional approval. Just because he's POTUS doesn't mean he can spend money illegally. They either had to do it via legislation or as they ended up doing through an outside channel.

To say this was cruel is a silly vain attempt to create a division between the Commander in Chief and the troops just to score a few political points. That on it's own is pathetic.

By this is the GOP we have today, nothing is too costly if it reinforces the dream world some Republicans appear to be living in.
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[buckman]

Redo in 3 months . Cowards .
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Redo in 3 months . Cowards .
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House still has to pass it.

But even then were just going to get another LSD inspired push to defund the HCB that's never going to happen...instead of some actual negotiation.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

NM

Paul -

Twice, I asked you a very simple yes or no question. Both times you dodged. If my beliefs were so flimsy, that I could get boxed into a corner with such a simple yes/no question, I would take a long, hard look at why I believe what I believe.

I'll leave it at that.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I don't the Obama coulda have done anything on death benefits via executive order without Congressional approval. Just because he's POTUS doesn't mean he can spend money illegally. They either had to do it via legislation or as they ended up doing through an outside channel.

To say this was cruel is a silly vain attempt to create a division between the Commander in Chief and the troops just to score a few political points. That on it's own is pathetic.

By this is the GOP we have today, nothing is too costly if it reinforces the dream world some Republicans appear to be living in.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"I don't the Obama coulda have done anything on death benefits via executive order without Congressional approval."

Then you would be 100% wrong. That's what an executive order, something the executive can order, unilaterally. Spence, you need to get in the habit of getting some facts before you spout off that your hero is innocent.

"To say this was cruel is a silly vain attempt "

Tell that to the families. Like your ghero, you are unable to put yourself in their shoes, because like your hero, you have nohting but disdain for them. If you don't htink that denying death benefits, when he could have restored them with a stroke of the pen, is cruel, that's your right.

It was the denial of benefits, and the barricading of open-air parks, which was a pathetic, vain attempt to score political points. And clearly it worked on you.

Get some facts, before you invent pro-Obama jibberish. Executive Orders. Look it up.

" They either had to do it via legislation "

Wrong on the facts. Google "Obama Executive Order", and you'll see that he has signed a few, which reults in money getting spent on things he wants, without legislative approval. Or maybe try enrolling in a high school civics class before invent pro-Obama fantasies...

It was about $3 million in benefits that he denied. Less than he spends on one of his many, typical, czar-like vacations. Nice!

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

House still has to pass it.

But even then were just going to get another LSD inspired push to defund the HCB that's never going to happen...instead of some actual negotiation.
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Is LSD covered ?
I would be wiling to bet Obama and friends are more likely to have experimented then Cruz and company
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"I don't the Obama coulda have done anything on death benefits via executive order without Congressional approval."

Then you would be 100% wrong. That's what an executive order, something the executive can order, unilaterally. Spence, you need to get in the habit of getting some facts before you spout off that your hero is innocent.

"To say this was cruel is a silly vain attempt "

Tell that to the families. Like your ghero, you are unable to put yourself in their shoes, because like your hero, you have nohting but disdain for them. If you don't htink that denying death benefits, when he could have restored them with a stroke of the pen, is cruel, that's your right.

It was the denial of benefits, and the barricading of open-air parks, which was a pathetic, vain attempt to score political points. And clearly it worked on you.

Get some facts, before you invent pro-Obama jibberish. Executive Orders. Look it up.

" They either had to do it via legislation "

Wrong on the facts. Google "Obama Executive Order", and you'll see that he has signed a few, which reults in money getting spent on things he wants, without legislative approval. Or maybe try enrolling in a high school civics class before invent pro-Obama fantasies...

It was about $3 million in benefits that he denied. Less than he spends on one of his many, typical, czar-like vacations. Nice!

Show me an executive order that spends money not already approved by another mechanism.

Show me some real analysis that the exec order was legal and at his disposal.

I believe the DoD already did a legal review and told the WH congressional action would be required for the money to come through the normal channel.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Paul -

Twice, I asked you a very simple yes or no question. Both times you dodged. If my beliefs were so flimsy, that I could get boxed into a corner with such a simple yes/no question, I would take a long, hard look at why I believe what I believe.

I'll leave it at that.

If I asked you do you still beat your wife and said that you had to answer with a simple yes or no, would (or could) you?

[lamigsb1]

Originally Posted by buckman

Negotiated by both parties ? That's not how I remember it
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If it wasn't we have a single payer health care system now.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

If I asked you do you still beat your wife and said that you had to answer with a simple yes or no, would (or could) you?

Apples and oranges. Read slowly and you'll seee why...

(1) I don't beat my wife

(2) The GOP is, in fact, asking Obama to treat individuals the same way he's treating businesses.

Yours was a trick question. Mine was not.

[PaulS]

And you should go back and read my initial response.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Show me an executive order that spends money not already approved by another mechanism.

Show me some real analysis that the exec order was legal and at his disposal.

I believe the DoD already did a legal review and told the WH congressional action would be required for the money to come through the normal channel.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

How come when I say "he could have restored payments with executive order", you ask for proof. But when you say "I believe the DoD already did a legal review and told the WH congressional action would be required", you want us to take your word? Why is that?

In any event, here is an executive order signed buy Obama, to increase the scope and mission of Homeland Security. It invlilved increased funding.

http://www.examiner.com/article/obam...ission-the-u-s