Paul: re crack pipes

[Jim in CT]

From an HHS spokesman...

the kits "will provide pipes for users to smoke crack cocaine, crystal methamphetamine, and ‘any illicit substance.’"

https://www.foxnews.com/media/critic...g-mostly-false

I guess they're not "crack pipes", in the sense that they are also intended to be used for crystal meth.

Hooray! Men peeing in the girls room with little girls, men destroying girls in sports, now the feds are handing out drug supplies.

What a great cultural leap forward.

[PaulS]

So who was the HHS spokesman? That quote was from the WFB saying a HHS spokesman said that.

From what I read it is things like alcohol swabs, chap lips stick, etc.

I agree giving out pipes is crazy. Click on the links and even the fox clip I saw everyone said it didn't include pipes.

The Health and Human Services (HHS) Department will not use federal money to provide crack pipes to vulnerable communities, the Biden administration indicated on Wednesday.

In a press release, Becerra and Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) Director Dr. Rahul Gupta said the administration was "focused on using our resources smartly to reduce harm and save lives. Accordingly, no federal funding will be used directly or through subsequent reimbursement of grantees to put pipes in safe smoking kits."

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said on Wednesday the reporting was inaccurate and that crack pipes were never part of the smoking kits. The Free Beacon claimed, however, to have spoken with a HHS spokesman who confirmed that crack pipes and other paraphernalia would be part of the kits.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

From what I read it is things like chap lips stick, etc.

need lotsa chap stick hitting that pipe!

[wdmso]

Needle exchanges find new champions among Republicans Key Florida Republicans Now Say Yes To Clean Needles For Drug Users

I bet everyone here has seen a crack pipe they look like a weed pipe .. or a coke Bottle with a pice of Tim foil (you guys have tons of that).



So needle exchanges are acceptable but crack pipes go to far. Yes because Crack is a black inner city drug or so they think

We all ready see it in the SCJ pick. GOP Senator Calls Black Judicial Nominee’s 3 Speeding Tickets A ‘Rap Sheet’

Republicans keep saying there is no racism in their party! Then they speak
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Tim foil (you guys have tons of that).




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nope

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Crack is a black inner city drug or so they think

Republicans keep saying there is no racism in their party! Then they speak

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can always count on you to inject racism in everything...good job

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

can always count on you to inject racism in everything...good job

And you deny it’s even a thing
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Needle exchanges find new champions among Republicans Key Florida Republicans Now Say Yes To Clean Needles For Drug Users

I bet everyone here has seen a crack pipe they look like a weed pipe .. or a coke Bottle with a pice of Tim foil (you guys have tons of that).



So needle exchanges are acceptable but crack pipes go to far. Yes because Crack is a black inner city drug or so they think

We all ready see it in the SCJ pick. GOP Senator Calls Black Judicial Nominee’s 3 Speeding Tickets A ‘Rap Sheet’

Republicans keep saying there is no racism in their party! Then they speak
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you go out and find a couple of republicans who do or say what you hoped, and claim that's the gop position. it’s not rational.

anything that makes it easier to do drugs is stupid public policy. It's taking stupidity to evangelical heights.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

anything that makes it easier to do drugs is stupid public policy. It's taking stupidity to evangelical heights.
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Bingo
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[Pete F.]

Let's reinvigorate the wonderfully successful war on drugs,

If prison worked, or if enforcement eliminated drug supplies, the U.S. would have seen a decrease in drug use and overdose deaths in the decades since the war on drugs began. Instead, data show that we suffer from 10 times the number of overdose deaths compared to 1990, despite billions spent on prohibition. The use and availability of fentanyl and other opiates has increased, not decreased.

Every overdose death is a tragedy, and too many Americans have been impacted by overdoses and a lack of health care for users. But let’s not be fooled. It’s easy for politicians to jump to “lock ‘em up” policies as a supposed “quick fix” to try to appease voters. We know from more than four decades of the failed war on drugs that this quick fix is a fiction. Prison and enforcement has not and will never make us safe from the risks of substance use. We need our leaders to tell the truth about this fact. We owe it to those who have lost their lives to overdose, and to those lives that can still be saved.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Let's reinvigorate the wonderfully successful war on drugs,

If prison worked, or if enforcement eliminated drug supplies, the U.S. would have seen a decrease in drug use and overdose deaths in the decades since the war on drugs began. Instead, data show that we suffer from 10 times the number of overdose deaths compared to 1990, despite billions spent on prohibition. The use and availability of fentanyl and other opiates has increased, not decreased.

Every overdose death is a tragedy, and too many Americans have been impacted by overdoses and a lack of health care for users. But let’s not be fooled. It’s easy for politicians to jump to “lock ‘em up” policies as a supposed “quick fix” to try to appease voters. We know from more than four decades of the failed war on drugs that this quick fix is a fiction. Prison and enforcement has not and will never make us safe from the risks of substance use. We need our leaders to tell the truth about this fact. We owe it to those who have lost their lives to overdose, and to those lives that can still be saved.

I never, ever said that taking a hard stance will eliminate drugs.

But look at the places that are notoriously soft on drugs, like Portland and San Francisco, and show me the evidence that enabling addicts is better than showing them tough love.

I'll wait for your evidence of such.

Pete, if you had a son who was addicted to heroin, would you give him clean needles?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I never, ever said that taking a hard stance will eliminate drugs.

But look at the places that are notoriously soft on drugs, like Portland and San Francisco, and show me the evidence that enabling addicts is better than showing them tough love.

I'll wait for your evidence of such.

Pete, if you had a son who was addicted to heroin, would you give him clean needles?

Portugal has done better than most of Europe thru decriminalization, it has significantly reduced the Portuguese prison population and eased the burden on the criminal justice system.


I'm lucky enough that I could afford treatment and that my kids haven't had that issue.

I'd just as soon not add to their illness, are you saying that if your kid was addicted, you'd just as soon he also had HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Portugal has done better than most of Europe thru decriminalization, it has significantly reduced the Portuguese prison population and eased the burden on the criminal justice system.


I'm lucky enough that I could afford treatment and that my kids haven't had that issue.

I'd just as soon not add to their illness, are you saying that if your kid was addicted, you'd just as soon he also had HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C.

"thru decriminalization, it has significantly reduced the Portuguese prison population and eased the burden on the criminal justice system"

Who cares?

We could also reduce the prison population and ease the burden on our criminal justice system, if we made everything legal. But reducing prison population isn't progress, if it sends people into the public who don't belong there. Telling me that Portugal decreased their prison population, isn't by itself, evidence of any improvement.

Why look at Portugal, when as I said, you can look at liberal utopias like San Francisco.

"I'm lucky enough that I could afford treatment and that my kids haven't had that issue."

So despite the partial dodge, you're saying no, you wouldn't provide needles to an addicted child.

"I'd just as soon not add to their illness"

How is giving them neeedles, not adding to the drug problem?

"if your kid was addicted, you'd just as soon he also had HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C"

I'd drag my kid by the hair into rehab.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"thru decriminalization, it has significantly reduced the Portuguese prison population and eased the burden on the criminal justice system"

Who cares?

We could also reduce the prison population and ease the burden on our criminal justice system, if we made everything legal. But reducing prison population isn't progress, if it sends people into the public who don't belong there. Telling me that Portugal decreased their prison population, isn't by itself, evidence of any improvement.

Why look at Portugal, when as I said, you can look at liberal utopias like San Francisco.

"I'm lucky enough that I could afford treatment and that my kids haven't had that issue."

So despite the partial dodge, you're saying no, you wouldn't provide needles to an addicted child.

"I'd just as soon not add to their illness"

How is giving them neeedles, not adding to the drug problem?

"if your kid was addicted, you'd just as soon he also had HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C"

I'd drag my kid by the hair into rehab.

We pay for every person we imprison, far better to have them be functioning members of society than locked up.

I’d do what I had to if my kid had that issue and I have no problem with giving addicts proper care and assistance.

Let’s hope none of us have to “drag my kid by the hair into rehab”, if it happens you’ll find out it’s not that simple.

You think addicts parents are all at fault?
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[Nebe]

We all know jim was really hoping for a government issue “let’s go Brandon” butt plug.
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[wdmso]

This sums it up

For about a decade, the majority of people who died from overdoses were white, and the discussion around drug policy has centered on prescription opioids. White middle-class people in addiction have been framed as victims of pharmaceutical companies that got them “hooked.” The narrative about Black people who used drugs during the crack crisis of the 1980s and ’90s was very different, implying that their drug use was a criminal and moral failure.


I worked in a detox no one in the state gave a #^&#^&#^&#^& about heroin or overdoses or crack it was inner city problem

Then came oxy’s and guess what it started killing white kids on the cape and in middle class America and boy did treatment in America change it became a disease that people could make money off and so did political outrage , every day for 20 plus years not matter on our court committed detox Count 98% were white between 18 to 26 on Avg , the rarest Asians
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

This sums it up

For about a decade, the majority of people who died from overdoses were white, and the discussion around drug policy has centered on prescription opioids. White middle-class people in addiction have been framed as victims of pharmaceutical companies that got them “hooked.” The narrative about Black people who used drugs during the crack crisis of the 1980s and ’90s was very different, implying that their drug use was a criminal and moral failure.


no one in the state gave a #^&#^&#^&#^& about…crack it was inner city problem

Then came oxy’s and guess what it started killing white kids
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those are your words. obviously, you’re saying crack is primarily a black problem.

Then when i say the same thing, you claim I’m wrong.

It’s very difficult to take you seriously. You’re humiliating yourself because you can’t just admit that maybe i was right on one thing, one time.

Also, you cannot refute me, by pointing to republicans who disagree with me. Unlike you, i can say that my side does a lot of stupid things. Unlike you, I don’t have to agree with my side on every single, solitary issue.

I never said that there’s no such thing as a republican who advocated for needle exchanges. But it’s mostly a liberal idea. And everyone who agrees with it, whether they’re a liberal or a conservative, is next-generation stupid.

Anyway, we’d all love to hear your explanation on why you flip-flopped so completely on blacks and crack, in the blink of an eye.

It’s fine when you say crack is mostly a black problem. But when Insay it, I’m an idiot.

Have fun with that.

wdmso: no one cares about crack because it was blacks…

jim: handing out crack pipes is bad for blacks…

wdmso: oh, you think only blacks do crack?

Do you not see the lack of logic there wayne?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

those are your words. obviously, you’re saying crack is primarily a black problem.

Then when i say the same thing, you claim I’m wrong.

It’s very difficult to take you seriously. You’re humiliating yourself because you can’t just admit that maybe i was right on one thing, one time.

Also, you cannot refute me, by pointing to republicans who disagree with me. Unlike you, i can say that my side does a lot of stupid things. Unlike you, I don’t have to agree with my side on every single, solitary issue.

I never said that there’s no such thing as a republican who advocated for needle exchanges. But it’s mostly a liberal idea. And everyone who agrees with it, whether they’re a liberal or a conservative, is next-generation stupid.

Anyway, we’d all love to hear your explanation on why you flip-flopped so completely on blacks and crack, in the blink of an eye.

It’s fine when you say crack is mostly a black problem. But when Insay it, I’m an idiot.

Have fun with that.

wdmso: no one cares about crack because it was blacks…

jim: handing out crack pipes is bad for blacks…

wdmso: oh, you think only blacks do crack?

Do you not see the lack of logic there wayne?
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The intelligent thing apparently is that addicts deserve to get more diseases.

As far as meth and crack being black issues, Y’all ain’t never been to Appalachia have ya?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The intelligent thing apparently is that addicts deserve to get more diseases.

As far as meth and crack being black issues, Y’all ain’t never been to Appalachia have ya?
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they need help. i don’t think it’s productive to make it easier to do drugs

i’m wondering, multiple
people here have asked you to comment on what san francisco and portland look like. is there a particular reason you refuse to comment on that?

it’s an interesting sounding theory, to hand out needles and crack pipes. but we don’t need to speculate, because there are places that coddle druggies, and we can see what the results are.

Liberals are, in general, not persuaded by results or empirical data. once they decide something is a good idea, they will never be convinced otherwise, no matter how clear the results are that it’s just not a good idea.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

they need help. i don’t think it’s productive to make it easier to do drugs

i’m wondering, multiple
people here have asked you to comment on what san francisco and portland look like. is there a particular reason you refuse to comment on that?

it’s an interesting sounding theory, to hand out needles and crack pipes. but we don’t need to speculate, because there are places that coddle druggies, and we can see what the results are.

Liberals are, in general, not persuaded by results or empirical data. once they decide something is a good idea, they will never be convinced otherwise, no matter how clear the results are that it’s just not a good idea.
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Drugs are not a problem confined to liberals, haven’t you seen Don Jr

Look a few posts above
Conservative states are far from immune, you think the states in Appalachia are a liberal bastion?
You just don’t hear about it in right wing media
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The intelligent thing apparently is that addicts deserve to get more diseases.

As far as meth and crack being black issues, Y’all ain’t never been to Appalachia have ya?
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so you’re denying that crack disproportionately effects blacks?

so when all the liberals said crack laws were racist because those laws disproportionately impacted blacks, they were all wrong?

see, you boxed yourself into a corner. in your mind, every single thing i say, must be wrong. but it was liberals who convinced me that crack was especially hard on blacks,

so if you’re saying I’m wrong, you’re also saying that a huge number of liberals are also wrong.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The intelligent thing apparently is that addicts deserve to get more diseases.

As far as meth and crack being black issues, Y’all ain’t never been to Appalachia have ya?
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y’all never heard of the ACLU, have ya?

Here, the ACLU makes it clear that blacks disproportionately use crack, whites disproportionately use powder cocaine, therefore tougher sentencing for crack hurts blacks.

Pete, are you saying the ACLU ( who are saying the same thing I’m saying) are wrong?

Looking forward to that answer.

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...m_20061025.pdf
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

those are your words. obviously, you’re saying crack is primarily a black problem.

Then when i say the same thing, you claim I’m wrong.

It’s very difficult to take you seriously. You’re humiliating yourself because you can’t just admit that maybe i was right on one thing, one time.

Also, you cannot refute me, by pointing to republicans who disagree with me. Unlike you, i can say that my side does a lot of stupid things. Unlike you, I don’t have to agree with my side on every single, solitary issue.

I never said that there’s no such thing as a republican who advocated for needle exchanges. But it’s mostly a liberal idea. And everyone who agrees with it, whether they’re a liberal or a conservative, is next-generation stupid.

Anyway, we’d all love to hear your explanation on why you flip-flopped so completely on blacks and crack, in the blink of an eye.

It’s fine when you say crack is mostly a black problem. But when Insay it, I’m an idiot.

Have fun with that.

wdmso: no one cares about crack because it was blacks…

jim: handing out crack pipes is bad for blacks…

wdmso: oh, you think only blacks do crack?

Do you not see the lack of logic there wayne?
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The narrative about Black people who used drugs during the crack crisis of the 1980s and ’90s was very different, implying that their drug use was a criminal and moral failure.


That wasn’t my position that’s the conservatives position then and now

The only one embarrassing themself is you

You can’t follow can you ? You have no historical view or experience in addiction. You are just regurgitation machine of conservatives talking points

Anything forward looking in your world is of course next-generation stupid.

Conservatives are all peddlers on a stationary Bike complaining that nothings changing

Because every past program to attack addiction has such a great track record ..

AA and NA are still the best tools to fight addiction
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

That wasn’t my position that’s the conservatives position then and now



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yes it was your position yesterday. you said no one cared about crack, then oxy came along and white kids were dying and people cared. which means that non-white kids were predominantly the ones dying before.

I posted a study from the ACLU which clearly shows it was predominantly a black issue. is the ACLU wrong?

“drug use was a moral failure.”

drug use IS a moral failure. when you freely choose to take drugs for the first time, you’re being an unbelievable moron. everyone knows the dangers. becoming an addict is a disease that no one chooses. but every single person makes a free choice to use it the first time. and you deserve to be ridiculed for making such a profoundly stupid choice.

“you have no experience in addiction”.


except my brother being a raging alcoholic who has struggled
mightily his entire adult life, i’ve been to at least 30 AA meetings with him. and dragged him to rehab several times, paid his mortgage and heating bills God knows how many times, prayed for him god knows how many times, called his sponsors god knows how many times, cried like a baby for him god knows how many times.

Never once, did it ever occur to me, that i could help him by making it easier for him to drink.

Wayne, you struggle with simple and straightforward facts that are right in front of you. You’re wrong about what you yourself said yesterday! Stop trying to assume things about me. You stink at it.

“every past program to treat addiction has a great track record.”

how’s the track record for places that coddle and enable addicts? is that working in san francisco and portland?

Can you please, please address that question?
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

yes it was your position yesterday. you said no one cared about crack, then oxy came along and white kids were dying and people cared. which means that non-white kids were predominantly the ones dying before.

I posted a study from the ACLU which clearly shows it was predominantly a black issue. is the ACLU wrong?

“drug use was a moral failure.”

drug use IS a moral failure. when you freely choose to take drugs for the first time, you’re being an unbelievable moron. everyone knows the dangers. becoming an addict is a disease that no one chooses. but every single person makes a free choice to use it the first time. and you deserve to be ridiculed for making such a profoundly stupid choice.

“you have no experience in addiction”.


except my brother being a raging alcoholic who has struggled
mightily his entire adult life, i’ve been to at least 30 AA meetings with him. and dragged him to rehab several times, paid his mortgage and heating bills God knows how many times, prayed for him god knows how many times, called his sponsors god knows how many times, cried like a baby for him god knows how many times.

Never once, did it ever occur to me, that i could help him by making it easier for him to drink.

Wayne, you struggle with simple and straightforward facts that are right in front of you. You’re wrong about what you yourself said yesterday! Stop trying to assume things about me. You stink at it.

“every past program to treat addiction has a great track record.”

how’s the track record for places that coddle and enable addicts? is that working in san francisco and portland?

Can you please, please address that question?
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having a brother being an alcoholic. ( is tough) and it a personal window into the horrible world of addiction. But that experience isn’t what I was referring to. Many of us have that experience or we know some one trapped in the circle of addiction, And it’s personal and these people are victims of addiction also .



.. Yet it seems it didn’t help you’re understanding of addiction . From a Treatment’s prospective, If you think his addiction is his moral failure or is that reserved for drug users ? and if you think needle exchange and safe injection sites
Or housing for addicts is some how to promote and encourage drug usage

The Treatment and the message for addiction is simple don’t use don’t drink . but the path to get these people to accept the message is much harder

So in a nut shell the use CRACK PIPE by Republicans was targeting Blacks , not meth pipe , not weed pipe , but Crack

And also Jim your crusade That the Dems are targeting blacks to get Abortions is more regurgitate talking points by guess who

Antiabortion activists, including some African-American pastors, have been waging a campaign around this fact, falsely asserting that the disparity is the result of aggressive marketing by abortion providers Aka Dems to minority communities.

These activists are exploiting and distorting the facts to serve their antiabortion agenda. They ignore the fundamental reason women have abortions and the underlying problem of racial and ethnic disparities across an array of health indicators. The truth is that behind virtually every abortion is an unintended pregnancy. This applies to all women—black, white, Hispanic, Asian and Native American alike.


https://www.guttmacher.org/gpr/2008/...bigger-picture

[Got Stripers]

If you believe the government is giving out crack pipes, you are yourselves smoking crack, all the while tuned into right wing media. Only in this crazy new world does this nonsense make news.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

If you believe the government is giving out crack pipes, you are yourselves smoking crack, all the while tuned into right wing media. Only in this crazy new world does this nonsense make news.

they give out needles, right? is this so different?
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[scottw]

"Republicans introduce "Hunter Act" to ban government funded crack pipes

[scottw]

the explanation might be worse than the outrage....not sure why this is surprising, should probably make these kits available in Middle School Libraries

Snopes, a fact-checking site, was mocked by critics this week for rating reporting on the Biden administration's alleged funding of crack pipe distribution to drug users as "mostly false," while also admitting that "safer smoking kits" were required to be distributed as part of a Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) grant.

In a Tuesday piece claiming news reports "grossly misrepresented" details about the substance abuse harm reduction program, Snopes stuck with its "mostly false" rating by arguing it was inaccurate to say that the distribution of the "smoking kits" was intended to "advance racial equity," but admitted that the pipes would be distributed with race as "a secondary consideration."

The grant program, overseen by HHS, would help make drug use safer for addicts by providing funds to nonprofits and local governments. The grant includes funds for "smoking kits/supplies," and, according to a spokesman for the agency, the kits "will provide pipes for users to smoke crack cocaine, crystal methamphetamine, and ‘any illicit substance.’"

"Applicants for the grants are prioritized if they treat a majority of ‘underserved communities,’ including African Americans and ‘LGBTQ+ persons,’ as established under President Joe Biden's executive order on ‘advancing racial equity.’"

"In 2022, a U.S. Department of Health and Human Services substance abuse harm reduction grant did require recipients to provide safer smoking kits to existing drug users. In distributing grants, priority would be given to applicants serving historically underserved communities," Snopes wrote in its fact-check.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

the explanation might be worse than the outrage....not sure why this is surprising, should probably make these kits available in Middle School Libraries

Snopes, a fact-checking site, was mocked by critics this week for rating reporting on the Biden administration's alleged funding of crack pipe distribution to drug users as "mostly false," while also admitting that "safer smoking kits" were required to be distributed as part of a Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) grant.

In a Tuesday piece claiming news reports "grossly misrepresented" details about the substance abuse harm reduction program, Snopes stuck with its "mostly false" rating by arguing it was inaccurate to say that the distribution of the "smoking kits" was intended to "advance racial equity," but admitted that the pipes would be distributed with race as "a secondary consideration."

The grant program, overseen by HHS, would help make drug use safer for addicts by providing funds to nonprofits and local governments. The grant includes funds for "smoking kits/supplies," and, according to a spokesman for the agency, the kits "will provide pipes for users to smoke crack cocaine, crystal methamphetamine, and ‘any illicit substance.’"

"Applicants for the grants are prioritized if they treat a majority of ‘underserved communities,’ including African Americans and ‘LGBTQ+ persons,’ as established under President Joe Biden's executive order on ‘advancing racial equity.’"

"In 2022, a U.S. Department of Health and Human Services substance abuse harm reduction grant did require recipients to provide safer smoking kits to existing drug users. In distributing grants, priority would be given to applicants serving historically underserved communities," Snopes wrote in its fact-check.

“we love blacks so much, that we’ll pay young black girls to have babies, and give them a bonus to have those babies with no dad around, because that always works out so well. but because we don’t want TOO many of them, we’ll put an abortion clinic on every corner
in their neighborhoods. Furthermore, because we also don’t want them in school with our children, we ( the ones who never stop calling ourselves pro choice) will deny them school choice. Finally, to keep them from from improving their lives at all, we will give them needles and crack pipes to keep them addicted.”.
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