Wood drillin problem - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

stripermaineiac · 11-10-2009, 10:42 PM

Hi all,I've been getting more an more into making plugs to the point that the results are workin pretty good. I've got a few that are really working and am thinking or adding them to my rod an fly business.
Well one problem has come up with the type of wood that gives me the boyancy that works best with my redo and modification of a couple of the needles into a sweet plug.
I've been using that nice select pine that HD sells. The problem is the sap line is a bitch to drill through with out around 20 percent walking. i've tried drilling with the lathe,different jigs,larger bits,smaller bits and just about everything I've read on all the plug building sites and even talking with a couple of the real old timers for ideas.
my question is does anyone have an idea of how to deal with this problem. Or an alternative wood that has the same boyancy.
I make some pencils,dannys,atom jrs,poppers anspooks that works great using bass wood an AYC with no problems with drilling so it leads me towards the sap line as the problem.So hopefully there's an idea out there. Thanks in advance, Ron

BigFish · 11-11-2009, 12:15 AM

Ron I would switch wood! Go to AYC....its lots easier to work with and you should have no drilling problems what so ever!

How are you Ron? Was the Derby good to you??

numbskull · 11-11-2009, 07:13 AM

I suspect the "nice select pine" that HD sells is southern yellow pine which is very difficult to drill even at high speed with modified brad points recommended by Fuller for end grain drilling.

Yellow pine is a heavier denser wood than white pine. The resin lines are hard as rock and the pith wood soft so drills deflect. I think if you use soft maple (or birch) and adjust your weighting a bit you would be happier. Soft maple should be cheap and easy to find in Maine. Look for a real lumberyard or hardwood dealer.

Raven · 11-11-2009, 07:57 AM

80 foot deep holes

8 ten foot sections of drill steel

the object being not to gettum stuck = boo coo bucks

back off the pressure and drill and clean shorter bores...

is the only answer besides switching ...

BigFish · 11-11-2009, 08:12 AM

Color me a proud weenie!

My recommendation was that its easy to work with, highly resistant to water absorption (not totally) and Ron mentioned it so I assume he has some on hand??

Rockfish9 · 11-11-2009, 09:31 AM

drill speed and drill size....when I drill yellow pine, I use a 5/32 parobolic drill and crank the speed up to 2200 RPM's, as Raven stated short strokes, slow and steady, clean out the hole often..

GattaFish · 11-11-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

back off the pressure and drill and clean shorter bores...

is the only answer besides switching ...

^^^^ What he said,,, go very slow,,, I drilled some of that stuff and the special bit from fuller did a nice job,,, but I drilled slow like I always do,,,,

I also use a short bit to start drilling long holes then switch it up to finish the hole,,,

Charleston · 11-11-2009, 12:52 PM

Clean the drill more often. If drill is in tail stock of lathe and not rotating, wipe it with a kerosene dampend rag.

stripermaineiac · 11-11-2009, 07:58 PM

Hi all, Thanks for all the replys.I'm gonna try to respond to all at once LOL. Well Big fish the derby was some very hard fishing this yr but all the stripers I got were on my plugs so I'm pretty psyched.I took 2nd place in the shore grandslam and tooks 2nd place shore striper in Octoberfish.The AYC is too boyant for what I'm using it for.
Salty I'm using 5/32 brad point as a pilot bit and stepping it up to a 6in long one to connect the holes.The sap line is so much harder and not straight that the bits walk like crazy sometimes.
Numbskull how is the birch comparative to the pine as far as boyancy. The maple seems a bit too dence. The birch might be an alternative.
Raven do you think lathe or drill press would be better plus any idea on the affect the change in density from the sapline can be dealt with?
Also bigfish I do have some ayc on hand and a load of basswood too.
Rockfish9 how would the increase in drill speed affect the bradpoint bits and the parabolick you mentioned what does it have for a tip 17 degree or more?
Gottafish did you use a drill press or lathe to do your drilling?
Charleston I'm using the power end of the lathe for the bit and lining the wood up with the stebcenter on the other end.I'm interested in the lubrication idea in the hard sap line. It might really help to some extent.
Well thanks much to all of you. I've got some ideas to head out in the shop and try.If I have any sucess I'll let you know tonight.The alternative wood will have to wait till I get some to try. The boyancy along with the paint job seem to make a big difference on how the plug works. The ideas came together combining an r smith idea with a salty idea and an old block island needle and my paint job.It works some sweet to the point I don't want to loose what I've come up with by too much change at once.Thanks again all. Tight line

numbskull · 11-12-2009, 08:01 AM

Don't use a standard brad point bit for end grain. Fuller drill sells brad points with the spurs ground off for end grain drilling. Just tell them when you order.

Without looking it up, I think soft maple (and birch) is close to the same density/weight as YELLOW pine........which in turn is much denser and heavier than basswood or white/sugar pine. Wood density does vary widely from board to board, however. AYC is very consistent and close to YP but, though really nice, AYC is an expensive material (when you look at the bf cost) and noxious stuff to work with. Also a pain to get in most areas. Most needles are maple or birch.

I, too, started out with yellow pine, but switched quickly because of the same drilling issues you ran into. Most of what I build now is maple or white pine (some AYC). Changing wood in a plug, particularly a needle, is not that big a deal. Weigh an original that works, then find its balance point when rigged. Turn one out of alternate wood and seal it, figure out how much weight you need to add, then place that weight to make the new plug balance at the same point. You are probably better off doing this now rather than struggling to drill straight holes each time you build some. You will also learn a lot about what makes the plug work when you do it.

PS, if you use maple you have to account for time in the sealer. Soft maple in particular absorbs a lot of sealer and can add substantial weight to the plug.

stripermaineiac · 11-12-2009, 07:09 PM

Hi Scott, Can't get outlook express to work on this computer to send you an email. Mine is stripermaineiac@yahoo.com . I'm not the best with computers as I don't use them much. Ron

stripermaineiac · 11-12-2009, 10:05 PM

Something for you all to laugh at. You'd think that with all the trees that there are in Maine that getting wood should be easy. LOL Wel today I had 3 different wood ie specialty lumber yards all tell me that a couple of the woods you mention can't be gotten in Maine and 2 of them out n out refused to even find a sorse and order some for me. No wonder these idiots in this state don't stay in business long Ron

saltyric · 11-13-2009, 06:21 AM

i use a short stub drill to drill both ends. the stub drill is less likely to walk. I then go back and run a longer bit thru.........just my 2 cents.

stripermaineiac · 11-15-2009, 09:44 PM

Hi all, well tried a couple of the ideas you guys posted. It's a toos up between the lathe or drill press as far as which one works best.Ist thing i found was that you gotta be ultra precise on marking the centers to the point that i went to marking them from all 4 corners which helped a bit and also stepped up the bit length from only 2 in showing then 3 1/2 then 5 till hole met from each end. Still had some that walked no matter what when the sap line was very hard and the rest of the wood was very soft.Did cut down the number of goofs but didn,t go completely away.The boyancy rate is hard to match for a plug that just stays under the surface without a lip on it. So I'm gonna stick with it and try a couple other ideas to see how they work.If anything makes a big enough difference to count I post it.From some of the posts this stuff is a bitch to work with.Thanks Ron

piemma · 11-18-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Color me a proud weenie!

My recommendation was that its easy to work with, highly resistant to water absorption (not totally) and Ron mentioned it so I assume he has some on hand??

I am an AYC weenie!! Larry, Scottys' bustin' chops. I know he uses some AYC I seen it myself!!