NC bathroom law

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim : Conservatives dont need help from liberals to make conservatives look like hatemongers and bigots. they do fine all by themselves ..

Well with that logic and supporting arguments and supporting data, how can I argue?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So you're OK with someone else losing their rights just as long as you don't lose yours. I didn't picture you as being that selfish.

And your not afraid of "liberal" government taking away what you consider your rights, but have some trepidation that a "conservative" one might. You have asked why "conservatives" are afraid of "liberals" and their policies or ideas. Maybe, if they really are "afraid," you have answered your questions. Maybe they are afraid for the same reasons you are.

But why do you so often cast conservatives as being afraid. That is so discriminatory. Allowing yourself to be afraid of them, but calling them cowards when they oppose your points of view.

What rights have you lost and I have gained or not lost ?? seems to be more emotional than factual ??


So in your world view allowing transgender to use the bathroom of the sex the identify with.. as taking your rights away in my world view its giving a right to people different than my self .. like same sex marriage its called addition not subtraction

I see conservatives much more willing to limit the rights of others and their own followers in order to maintain what they call Traditional Vaules but they use the word Ban all the time they ban this they will Ban that !! even in the 2a argument the right loves the word Ban for the past 50 years... I dont support banning guns but that wont stop Conservatives from thinking I do... why because I am not upset if a transgender uses the same rest room I do or gay people get married or people shouldn't be shot or beat by police no matter how much they may or may not deserve it .. reguardless of there Race


calling them cowards when they oppose your points of view,,???? Dont recall calling any one person a coward however being afraid is very different from being a coward and I haven't met many conservatives who wont defend their views Vigorously sadly I have met many liberals who don't defend their views Vigorously

1. Coward
a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.

Afraid feeling reluctance, unwillingness, distaste, or the like:

[scottw]

good article...don't know how many of you actually know or have known transgender folks, I've had a family member go though this and have met other folks through the years, in my experience there are other serious mental issues related and I'm not sure that the gender confusion causes the mental issues or the mental issues cause the gender confusion but like many thing there is usually a significant life event that triggers final action.....in the case I'm closest with everything changed pretty suddenly after the loss of another family member...there was a lot of substance abuse involved which increased after the begining of the transformation and this person was very confident and fully expected the spouse to stay with them as a married couple after their transformation as the article points out....not to mention the incredible pain and agony the spouse went through





"For the last decade, the American public has been told that sexual orientation is a fixed, immutable characteristic — like skin color. Now we’re told that “gender identity” is much the same. Psychology is fixed. Biology has to adjust. But observe the lamentation in the video: A transgender boy wants other boys to change, to reject the “born this way” of their own sexuality for the open-mindedness of “getting physical” with a girl with a penis. Claire is desperate for their psychology to change, for their minds to open, and for their sexual identity to change in response to Claire’s allegedly unchangeable desires."

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...not-liberation

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

What rights have you lost and I have gained or not lost ?? seems to be more emotional than factual ??


So in your world view allowing transgender to use the bathroom of the sex the identify with.. as taking your rights away in my world view its giving a right to people different than my self .. like same sex marriage its called addition not subtraction

I see conservatives much more willing to limit the rights of others and their own followers in order to maintain what they call Traditional Vaules but they use the word Ban all the time they ban this they will Ban that !! even in the 2a argument the right loves the word Ban for the past 50 years... I dont support banning guns but that wont stop Conservatives from thinking I do... why because I am not upset if a transgender uses the same rest room I do or gay people get married or people shouldn't be shot or beat by police no matter how much they may or may not deserve it .. reguardless of there Race


calling them cowards when they oppose your points of view,,???? Dont recall calling any one person a coward however being afraid is very different from being a coward and I haven't met many conservatives who wont defend their views Vigorously sadly I have met many liberals who don't defend their views Vigorously

1. Coward
a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.

Afraid feeling reluctance, unwillingness, distaste, or the like:

"I see conservatives much more willing to limit the rights of others and their own followers in order to maintain what they call Traditional Vaules "

If by 'rights' you mean those defined in the Constitution, then you are completely wrong.

If by 'rights' you mean made-up rights, then you might have a point.

"So in your world view allowing transgender to use the bathroom of the sex the identify with.. as taking your rights away "

It's taking the rights away from women who don't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom or a shower facility, with a man. You can't grasp that? If you are comfortable with something, then that means everyone else must be, too, or they are a hatemonger? There can be no reasonable disagreement with what you feel? But you say my side is taking away rights.

"people shouldn't be shot or beat by police no matter how much they may or may not deserve it "

OK, so if someone 'deserves' to be shot by police, they shouldn't be? So if someone shoots at a cop, you don't think the cop should shoot back.

Whew...

[FishermanTim]

It's amazing how much time, energy and money has been wasted on a topic that will be easily fixed by just changing the damn bathroom door placard!!!

Frankly I don't give a crap about who uses the bathroom that I'm in, as long as whoever it is isn't touching me or broadcasting to the world that they are a "special person" that requires more consideration that everyone else.

Any clown that does that it destined for a down-n-dirty swirly!!!

[wdmso]

looks like I left out unarmed my Fault
"people shouldn't be shot or beat by police no matter how much they may or may not deserve it "

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

What rights have you lost and I have gained or not lost ?? seems to be more emotional than factual ??

When the Federal Government goes beyond the powers reserved for it and usurps the powers left to the States and to the people in their localities, we have all lost constitutional rights not only to self-government, but the right to be free from oppressive government.

And when a central government grants itself the power to create rights outside of its right to do so, it engenders the belief and sets the precedent that our rights belong to it not to us. As that central power expands its domain over our lives with tens of thousands and growing numbers of regulations, even to minutiae such as gender preferences and bathrooms, it gives credence to the ideology that it should indeed have the power to do so, and that "rights," indeed, are created and given by government, and that any notion of rights being unalienable, not to be tampered with by government, is an old, unworkable, even silly notion.

In order to agree upon what rights we have lost or gained by unconstitutional regulation, we must first agree on the difference between unalienable rights and government granted rights. Unalienable rights are natural, inherently owned by individuals, precede government, and cannot be abridged by government. Government granted rights are owned by government's power to create them, and its power to take them away.

If you study the history of the Constitution and its transformation from law to a "living, breathing" embodiment of evolving unlimited governmental power, it will be obvious how much unalienable right we have lost and been replaced by government concocted, dictated, and owned "rights."

If we both agree on that, and you think you have lost nothing, but gained rights by it, then your love of and trust in the power of unlimited government is either emotional or based on the misunderstanding or ignorance of facts.

So in your world view allowing transgender to use the bathroom of the sex the identify with.. as taking your rights away in my world view its giving a right to people different than my self .. like same sex marriage its called addition not subtraction

I don't have a world view on "rights" to bathroom use. Such rights, if they truly can be considered "rights" rather than customs, are dependent on the people of different parts of the world. Should our Federal Government have its regulatory agencies tell the world how to use bathrooms? Should it be telling the people of all the localities in the U.S. how? Do You really want the Federal Government to have that much power? Well, it's apparently no skin off your nose if it does. But, here in the U.S. forcing the preference of a few over that of the many gives a preferential "right" to the few and takes away the preferential right of the rest. It seems, regarding addition and subtraction, it raises the sum of a few and subtracts from the sum of the many.

I see conservatives much more willing to limit the rights of others and their own followers in order to maintain what they call Traditional Vaules but they use the word Ban all the time they ban this they will Ban that !! even in the 2a argument the right loves the word Ban for the past 50 years... I dont support banning guns but that wont stop Conservatives from thinking I do... why because I am not upset if a transgender uses the same rest room I do or gay people get married or people shouldn't be shot or beat by police no matter how much they may or may not deserve it .. reguardless of there Race

You're not understanding that limiting the power of government expands the "rights" of the people. When you drift from that principle into the quagmire of "interpretation" and personal opinion, your perception clouds into a mixture of emotion, contradictory ideas, misperceptions, incomplete thoughts, and all matter of unintelligible confusion. You become ripe for rhetorical devices rather than logic.

calling them cowards when they oppose your points of view,,???? Dont recall calling any one person a coward however being afraid is very different from being a coward and I haven't met many conservatives who wont defend their views Vigorously sadly I have met many liberals who don't defend their views Vigorously

1. Coward
a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.

Afraid feeling reluctance, unwillingness, distaste, or the like:

Fear is the overriding emotion in cowardice. There are several other definitions of "coward" other than the one you give. There's this: "Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good and of help to others or oneself in a time of need." And, regarding the word "courage" which is part of the definition you give here, there is this: "Courage is resistance to fear."

Here are a few of instances you accused conservatives of fear:

"Step back from the emoting and fear and look at the big picture."

""Conservatives are afraid of everything and everyone."

"The possibility of other justices not seeing the world as you do its terrifying."

"Wow can you 2 be any more afraid of black people"

Those quotes have a good deal of what resides in various definitions of cowardice.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I don't have a world view on "rights" to bathroom use. Such rights, if they truly can be considered "rights" rather than customs, are dependent on the people of different parts of the world. Should our Federal Government have its regulatory agencies tell the world how to use bathrooms? Should it be telling the people of all the localities in the U.S. how? Do You really want the Federal Government to have that much power?


.

I suspect the answer is YES....up to and until they find that the government at the time disagrees with them politically or morally and then the answer would be absolutely NO.

The Obama Admin is warning school districts that full access to both bathrooms and by extension locker rooms is a "civil right"

I suspect we can save a ton of money going forward by building only one unisex restroom and/or shower facility throughout our society, why even build separate facilities when we've learned that they not really necessary and since there truly is no anatomical difference between the sexes, only state of mind and a truly open state of mind(which is a societal requirement) would never recognize any differences anyway.... which will make us much better off...an probably more like Europe...which is a good thing

I wonder, if a future administration dictates through the Federal Agencies that the "right to life" is a "civil right" and that this extends to those in the womb.....would this be a problem for the folks who applaud Federal Dictates?...surely no one can argue that the "right to life" is a "civil right" or that the right to life trumps the right to end one or the right to privacy .......can they???

the pendulum swings....

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Fear is the overriding emotion in cowardice. There are several other definitions of "coward" other than the one you give. There's this: "Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good and of help to others or oneself in a time of need." And, regarding the word "courage" which is part of the definition you give here, there is this: "Courage is resistance to fear."

Here are a few of instances you accused conservatives of fear:

"Step back from the emoting and fear and look at the big picture."

""Conservatives are afraid of everything and everyone."

"The possibility of other justices not seeing the world as you do its terrifying."

"Wow can you 2 be any more afraid of black people"

Those quotes have a good deal of what resides in various definitions of cowardice.

like I thought, never called any one a coward if you see fear residing in various definitions cowardice thats on you..

I clearly defined the differences between Cowardice and fear as I see it ... and how I apply it

[Sea Dangles]

Another thread that has jokers doing their best to describe and define the ugly transformation our Country has taken under the guidance of the current administration. To me it is a joke that we have to discuss this foolishness. Bruce Jenner goes from Olympic hero to reality tv hero and we,as a country, sacrifice our values to accomadate the flake. It is no wonder Trump is doing so well with the liberal whiners that have been bred into society setting the pace,anything is possible.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Well if I commit a crime, I think I'm gonna feel more comfortable as a female And therefore would feel more comfortable in a female prison . Just saying
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

like I thought, never called any one a coward if you see fear residing in various definitions cowardice thats on you..

Right, you didn't use the word "coward." But, whether you meant that or not, your use of fear could certainly imply that. And fear residing in various definitions of cowardice is not on me, it is on actual, legitimate, definitions of fear and cowardice. But that is mostly an aside. As usual, you avoided rebutting most of, and the important part of my post.

I clearly defined the differences between Cowardice and fear as I see it

Right . . . clearly as you see it. But not clear in respect to how both words are defined in different contexts. And not clear on how the two words are united rather than different. Fear is the predominant emotion in cowardice.

And Fear, outside its dwelling in cowardice, can be solicitous, or even beautifully awesome:

Full Definition of fear per Webster:
a (1) : an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger

b (1) : an instance of this emotion (2) : a state marked by this emotion

2: anxious concern : solicitude

3: profound reverence and awe especially toward God

4: reason for alarm : danger

Your use of "fear" had elements of definitions (1) and (4) but not clearly so or inappropriately so. And these definitions of fear are directly related to cowardice, being the reason for it. The other two definitions have no connection to cowardice nor your use of the word "fear."

... and how I apply it

At best, your application was biased, derogatory, or too loose to convey any definite meaning--as is, quite often the case in "interpretation," personal opinion, or incorrect or improper application.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Also..."Gender, typically described in terms of masculinity and femininity, is a social construction that varies across different cultures and over time"

I believe I said as the brain is concerned...

It's this simple. You're born a man, brain thinks you're a woman, you have your genitalia reworked, hormone therapy, you sound-think-look-dress-act like a woman...yet state law says you have to use the men's room.

God help you down south.

Is this what you want your son walking into when he goes to the public restroom?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I believe I said as the brain is concerned...

It's this simple. You're born a man, brain thinks you're a woman, you have your genitalia reworked, hormone therapy, you sound-think-look-dress-act like a woman...yet state law says you have to use the men's room.

God help you down south.

Is this what you want your son walking into when he goes to the public restroom?

That's not a transgender either !
That's not what this law is about .
This will allow you to use a woman's bathroom if you have a penis and are heterosexual but identify as a women .
Like Bruce Jenner
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

That's not a transgender either !
That's not what this law is about .
This will allow you to use a woman's bathroom if you have a penis and are heterosexual but identify as a women .
Like Bruce Jenner
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It is what these laws are about...it's everything.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

It is what these laws are about...it's everything.

Except the feelings of those that expect privacy and normalcy
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

It's this simple. You're born a man, brain thinks you're a woman, you have your genitalia reworked, hormone therapy, you sound-think-look-dress-act like a woman...yet state law says you have to use the men's room.

Key phrase there is have your genitalia reworked.....if you can still write your name in the snow, you're a dude.....enjoy the use of the urinals.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I believe I said as the brain is concerned...

It's this simple. You're born a man, brain thinks you're a woman, you have your genitalia reworked, hormone therapy, you sound-think-look-dress-act like a woman...yet state law says you have to use the men's room.

God help you down south.

Is this what you want your son walking into when he goes to the public restroom?

In what context would you want your son walking into this?

[Sea Dangles]

Spence has confused offspring just from observing Daddy.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I believe I said as the brain is concerned...

It's this simple. You're born a man, brain thinks you're a woman, you have your genitalia reworked, hormone therapy, you sound-think-look-dress-act like a woman...yet state law says you have to use the men's room.

God help you down south.

Is this what you want your son walking into when he goes to the public restroom?

It's this simple...you can do all those things, but YOU ARE STILL A MAN. Your chromosomes say you are a man.

And what none of you has touched upon, presumably because you can't argue that I'm wrong, is this...if you open up the ladies room to men who are trans, you cannot then prevent perverts and voyers from saying they are a tran, simply to gain access to the ladies rooms. So, regrettably, a small number of trans might have to be inconvenienced, to safeguard the privacy/safety of everyone else. We all have to make sacrifices for others.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I believe I said as the brain is concerned...

God help you down south.

?

Yeah, which is why they cannot build houses fast enough in places like NC, SC, TN, GA. And who is moving there? Young kids from New England, who graduate college and can't get down there fast enough.

[The Dad Fisherman]

I've been talking to the wife about possibly retiring down in NC. Been down there a couple of times the past year and really liked it down there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

And what none of you has touched upon, presumably because you can't argue that I'm wrong, is this...if you open up the ladies room to men who are trans, you cannot then prevent perverts and voyers from saying they are a tran, simply to gain access to the ladies rooms. So, regrettably, a small number of trans might have to be inconvenienced, to safeguard the privacy/safety of everyone else. We all have to make sacrifices for others.

Jim, as you're a facts sort of guy try and find some that back up your assertion. You'll find plenty about how transgender people are harassed today and scant if any evidence these laws have been a problem in states where they've been implemented.

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Key phrase there is have your genitalia reworked.....if you can still write your name in the snow, you're a dude.....enjoy the use of the urinals.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Or if you're born a woman but look like a man be forced to walk into the ladies room, feel like an idiot and scare the crap out of the women.

Nice...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, as you're a facts sort of guy try and find some that back up your assertion. You'll find plenty about how transgender people are harassed today and scant if any evidence these laws have been a problem in states where they've been implemented.

We talked about this. I googled 'woman assualted in restroom', and I got pages and pages of news stories. Opening up the ladies room to anyone who fancies going in there, increases the likelihood of these incidents. All you can do to respond, is offer vague denials that it happens. So clearly you ar enot a 'facts' kind of guy, unless the facts happen to support your agenda.

I have no doubt trannies get harassed in the mens room. It's not a perfect workd. We need to find the solution that stinks for the fewest number of people, and using that as a barometer, it's obvious.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by buckman

Except the feelings of those that expect privacy and normalcy
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

How much privacy should one expect in a public rest room or locker room? like they are in their Home??
most women locker rooms and bathroom i've seen have individual showers and stalls unlike mens gang showers in locker rooms

so you all want transgender dressed like a women who hasn't had a sex but looks and acts female and most wouldn't know the difference unless you got real close or looked under the hood to walk into a mens rest room or locker room and expect no one would notice? and that person would feel 100% comfortable along with the other men

But locker room have gay men and women mixed in you think they are not meat gazing ?? we add to the bathroom Law's

FYI freaks all ready exist this law wont increase them

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

We talked about this. I googled 'woman assualted in restroom', and I got pages and pages of news stories. Opening up the ladies room to anyone who fancies going in there, increases the likelihood of these incidents.

If that was the case then there would be police records of increased incidences in states with anti-discriminatory laws...

...but there isn't.

I'd wager that the type of law NC put through would actually create a lot more harassment.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

You'll find plenty about how transgender people are harassed today and scant if any evidence these laws have been a problem in states where they've been implemented.

You can't legislate tolerance and acceptance.......#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s come in all shapes, sizes, and sexes......
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

How much privacy should one expect in a public rest room or locker room? like they are in their Home??
most women locker rooms and bathroom i've seen have individual showers and stalls unlike mens gang showers in locker rooms

so you all want transgender dressed like a women who hasn't had a sex but looks and acts female and most wouldn't know the difference unless you got real close or looked under the hood to walk into a mens rest room or locker room and expect no one would notice? and that person would feel 100% comfortable along with the other men

But locker room have gay men and women mixed in you think they are not meat gazing ?? we add to the bathroom Law's

FYI freaks all ready exist this law wont increase them

I clearly haven't given this as much thought as you .
I just wouldn't want my granddaughter to use a bathroom and have a drag queen heterosexual male using the stall next to her . Is that too much to ask or do I now have to accompany her in the bathroom if I see a male version of Hillary Clinton follow her in ?
FYI tolerance and acceptance does increase that which was previously not tolerated . It's human nature .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Or if you're born a woman but look like a man be forced to walk into the ladies room, feel like an idiot and scare the crap out of the women.

Nice...

Well . . . for those who are in there for a crap, but having trouble moving it, this would be a good thing.

Or, if your born with a male body . . . you know, a wee wee and such . . . and you go into a men's bathroom, no one will have his crap affected.