Westfield Gun Accident??!!! - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

BigFish · 10-27-2008, 11:31 AM

I want to know why an 8 year old is allowed to fire an automatic weapon??? Plenty of stupidity going around in Westfield yesterday!!! What a shame.

Slingah · 10-27-2008, 12:00 PM

so very sad....

The Dad Fisherman · 10-27-2008, 12:02 PM

I was thinking the same thing....very sad.

I'm all for teaching kids responsible gun safety and handling, my son has been through the NRA gun safety program himself......but putting an uzi in the hands of an 8 year old is pretty irresponsible if you ask me.

My heart goes out to the parents on this one...again very sad

JH Beers · 10-27-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I was thinking the same thing....very sad.

I'm all for teaching kids responsible gun safety and handling, my son has been through the NRA gun safety program himself......but putting an uzi in the hands of an 8 year old is pretty irresponsible if you ask me.

My heart goes out to the parents on this one...again very sad

I'm not grumpy, and I'm not old... but I had heard about this accident myself...

whiplash · 10-27-2008, 12:16 PM

Thoughts and prayers for the family . BUT what IDIOT gave an 8 yr old and uzi? Everybody complains about the strict gun laws (that only impact legal gun owners,not the bad guys) but yet give an uzi to an 8 yr old. Talk about handing over our rights. The anti gun folks will be on this like stink on old pogies. All the reports say they had tons of trained folks supervising this event . How many had any brains is my question. I've had guns all my life and both my sons were trained but with .22 single shot not a frigin uzi. I hope someone is hung out to dry.

Slipknot · 10-27-2008, 12:19 PM

terrible tragedy

I guess the instructor did not think things thru enough not realizing an 8 y.o. can't handle the recoil of an uzi

I feel for the parents and family and I'm sure nobody feels worse than the instructor.
Too young to be shooting that weapon if you ask me

Now the anti's will just suck this up and use it and get as much out of it as possible, which would be sad if they do but understandable considering the age of the kid.

UserRemoved1 · 10-27-2008, 12:44 PM

My feelings exactly.VERY sad.

[ quote=whiplash;632459]Thoughts and prayers for the family . BUT what IDIOT gave an 8 yr old and uzi? Everybody complains about the strict gun laws (that only impact legal gun owners,not the bad guys) but yet give an uzi to an 8 yr old. Talk about handing over our rights. The anti gun folks will be on this like stink on old pogies. All the reports say they had tons of trained folks supervising this event . How many had any brains is my question. I've had guns all my life and both my sons were trained but with .22 single shot not a frigin uzi. I hope someone is hung out to dry.[/quote]

Raven · 10-27-2008, 01:42 PM

a weapon with that much fire power...if allowed to fired by an eight year old kid should have be (secured) and bolted into a stationary device where recoil could not even be a factor.....

i remember firing a twenty two rifle up in Maine at age ten and the safety precautions were HUGE.

that's a real shame this happened in what appeared to be a controlled environment.

JH Beers · 10-27-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

a weapon with that much fire power...if allowed to fired by an eight year old kid should have be (secured) and bolted into a stationary device where recoil could not even be a factor.....

i remember firing a twenty two rifle up in Maine at age ten and the safety precautions were HUGE.

that's a real shame this happened in what appeared to be a controlled environment.

Not an appropriate place to mention this, but I'd call it the "taser" effect more than anything...

Kid's shocked, can't let go of trigger, etc.

You have to wonder though, cyclic rate of 600/min.

32 round clip max, probably 16rd for a kid of that age (assuming that they weren't being absolutely moronic, which apparently they were, but I'll be generous in their grief).

10rds/second.

So, in 3.2 or 1.6 seconds with adult supervision AND A STOCK, the weapon managed to go from pointed forward to pointed backward?

Something about this story doesn't add up.

For what it's worth, though, my grandpa let me shoot one of his friend's 10" barrel .454's when I was 12. With two adults holding down my arms my arms kicked up two feet from benchrest.

I could go through 30rds on his 9mm Beretta 92 as fast as I could pull the trigger, and I probably never got further than 1ft above starting point at the same age.

fishpoopoo · 10-27-2008, 01:58 PM

well, it was bound to happen. second fatality in the history of organized machine gun shoots (first one was at knob creek several years ago ... home made mini gun mount failed and allowed the moving parts to strike the owner's daughter in the head).

plenty of kids have handled full-auto firearms with no problems before, but in this case i wouldn't be surprised if the kid was allowed to do a full 32 round mag dump when he should have been limited to bursts.

when you shoot a full auto subgun for the first time, you're going to experience muzzle climb. you're supposed to control it by gradually tightening up your stance and grip, and keeping your bursts short.

sounds like the poor kid lost control of the weapon and allowed the muzzle of the Uzi SMG (ordinarly a very controllable weapon in the hands of an adult) to point upward at his head.

whenever i introduce first timers to a subgun, i always limit the number of rounds in the first mag to a maxmium of six, until they get a feel for how the weapon handles. ESPECIALLY on an open-bolt subgun like an Uzi.

UserRemoved1 · 10-27-2008, 01:58 PM

An uzi is not a small gun, HOW does a round come back and shoot the kid in the head? He must have let go of the gun? 8 year olds don't have that long of a armspan to turn this around?

UserRemoved1 · 10-27-2008, 02:00 PM

ben I posted that at the same time but can you answer that? Wouldnt it stop firing if it got out of his hands?

fishpoopoo · 10-27-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

An uzi is not a small gun...

you'd be surprised how small it is. the folding wire stock on an uzi doesn't give you much to hold onto.

fishpoopoo · 10-27-2008, 02:02 PM

scott,

at this point, i don't know the full details. if it was a micro-uzi pistol, then it's the size of a large handgun.

poor kid.

UserRemoved1 · 10-27-2008, 02:15 PM

10-4 thanks Ben I thought an uzi was fairly large but then again the last time I seen one up close it was pointed at me.

fishpoopoo · 10-27-2008, 02:28 PM

okay, the report i am hearing ... it was a micro-uzi full-auto pistol.

a handgun-sized version of the full-side UZI SMG.

you don't let novice adult shooters handle that kind of a weapon, much less an 8 year hold kid.

UserRemoved1 · 10-27-2008, 02:30 PM

just read this

WESTFIELD, Mass. -- An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair, The boy lost control of the weapon while firing it Sunday at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo at the Westfield Sportsman's Club, Police Lt. Lawrence Valliere said. Police identified the child Monday as Christopher Bizilj (Bah-SEAL) of Ashford, Conn.
Police said Christopher was with a certified instructor, and they called the incident a "self-inflicted accidental shooting." "The weapon was loaded and ready to fire," police Lt. Hipolito Nunez said. "The 8-year-old victim had the Uzi and as he was firing the weapon, the front end of the weapon went up with the backfire and he ended up receiving a round in his head." The boy was taken to Baystate Medical Center where he died. Francis Mitchell, a longtime member and trustee of the club, said he saw the boy's father supporting his son from behind when the accident happened. "My reaction is shock," said Mitchell, who lives down the street from the club. "In the last five years, there has never been a problem or a bad accident. I've been sick all night." Although the death appears to be an accident, police and the Hampden district attorney's office were investigating, officials said. "We are going to review all the circumstance regarding what happened, who was involved, what authorities they may or may not have had, who was supervising," District Attorney William Bennett said. It is legal for children to fire a weapon if they have permission from a parent or legal guardian and are supervised by a properly certified and licensed instructor, Nunez said. An instructor was there along with the boy's father, officials said. The instructor's name was not released. Authorities were investigating whether everyone connected with the incident had the proper weapons permits. Massachusetts requires licenses to possess firearms, and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives issues licenses to possess machine guns. "We do not know at this time the full facts of this incident," Nunez said early Monday afternoon. In an advertisement for the event, the club said it would offer machine gun demonstrations and rentals and free handgun lessons. "It's all legal & fun -- No permits or licenses required!!!!" reads the ad, posted on the club's Web site. "You will be accompanied to the firing line with a Certified Instructor to guide you. But You Are In Control -- "FULL AUTO ROCK & ROLL," the ad said. The ad also said children under 16 would be admitted free, and both adults and children were offered free .22-caliber pistol and rifle shooting. Peter Robbins, the former director of the Barnstable Police Academy and a former firearms instructor, called the boy's death a tragedy, but said gun clubs try to teach children about gun safety. "It's a wonderful experience to expose younger people to firearms safety through these clubs. That's what these clubs are about," Robbins said. The sportsman's club was founded in 1949 and describes itself on its Web site as an organization that promotes "the interest of legal sport with rod, gun, and bow and arrow, both directly and through training." It has eight firing ranges as well as archery and fishing facilities located on 375 acres in Westfield, about 100 miles west of Boston. The boy's father, Charles Bizilj, is director of emergency medicine at Johnson Memorial Hospital, in Stafford Springs, Conn. The hospital issued a statement of condolence but declined further comment. Connecticut state Rep. Bryan Hurlbert, whose district includes Ashford, said the Bizilj family is well known and highly regarded. "This is a huge tragedy and the family is very involved locally," he said.

BigFish · 10-27-2008, 02:49 PM

Very sad indeed.

The Dad Fisherman · 10-27-2008, 03:13 PM

and the insanity has already started.

I was just reading a blog on a western mass newspaper site and all the knuckleheads are saying that the father needs to be punished for allowing his son to shoot it.....I'm pretty sure he was punished enough.

Jenn · 10-27-2008, 05:05 PM

I live in Westfield so this was all the buzz today. It is VERY sad and unfortunate. I am not a member of that club but know they have these shoots periodically and often with proceeds to benefit charity.

It was a "machine gun Shoot" and it was with a full auto so we arent talking just one shot. I agree with FWW the kid probably reacted to the recoil, unable to let go....

BigFish · 10-27-2008, 07:01 PM

It was pretty stupid on the fathers behalf to allow his son to fire such a weapon but even more irresponsible for the instructors to allow it!

Nebe · 10-27-2008, 07:09 PM

Sad... truely sad.

PI guy · 10-29-2008, 08:29 PM

No reason for an 8 year old to even touch a gun like that. B.B gun. OK 22. OK. .410 OK. All under CLOSE supervision. No excuses.

Swimmer · 10-30-2008, 11:02 AM

When you go to these shoots to watch or actually fire a machine gun the bullets are purchased a clip at a time. So there was probably 32 rounds in the clip and when the child pulled the trigger even if he had both hands on the gun one probably slipped off and the gun just did a semi-circle rising perpendicular from the table in front of him and one the the shots probably the last one entered the boys head. 32 rounds, just think if the Uzi went sidesways and not up and down. Many more people could have been injured. I know the Hanson shoot people are lined up all morning at the .50 machine gun. I think its $200.00 for a clip of 50 rounds or maybe less. I have never gone and don't care too. I don't own any guns. But I live a mile or so away as the crow flies and can hear them all being fired. I was going to get my machine gun license years ago. Had the opportunity to buy these types of weapons. I was always mesmerized by Thompsons. Really unique gun. Doesn't rise that much. A one-hundred round drum disappeared in no time. Very expensive. One of my now deceased co-workers and I went to a nearby town closer to Boston where he purchased two fo them. His wife sold them for $15,000.00 a piece after he died. He paid $800.00 for them the day I was with him. Great invetsment.

JH Beers · 10-30-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

It was pretty stupid on the fathers behalf to allow his son to fire such a weapon but even more irresponsible for the instructors to allow it!

This gets to the heart of the issue.

Most people don't know enough about firearms to make that call. I know that I wouldn't have known enough to make that call, personally.

FPP on the other hand immediately would have said "no way", and so should the instructor.

At some point, every parent needs to trust someone else's judgement on the best thing for their kid, who knows more than s/he does about a particular subject matter.

Kid goes on a fishing trip, falls into the prop wash because the captain took a wave wrong?

Kid's on a rollercoaster and the technician doesn't tighten the safety harness down enough?

The RSO should have said "Haeeeeeeeelll naw!" and told the father just what might happen.

beamie · 10-31-2008, 07:03 PM

Sad issue for sure......

But geeez, it's a "Sportmans" Club. There is nothing sporting about an assualt weapon meant to kill humans and not game. Wrong place to hold that venue.

UserRemoved1 · 12-04-2008, 09:25 PM

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news...70/detail.html

BigFish · 12-05-2008, 07:47 AM

They should charge the Father as well if they are going to charge the others...he was equally responsible if not more so! Just for the absolute stupidity of letting his son fire that type of weapon! I do not believe anything will come of these charges...it will wind up being thrown out! If the Father even thinks of filing a civil suit against either the gun club or the town/police dept..........he has big balls as he was equally culpable in this unfortunate accident!

Raven · 12-05-2008, 08:16 AM

the Father: he's always gonna be in hell....
every time he looks in the mirror

not being a father tho... i cannot
truly fathom your wrath....

wasn't there some kinda paper work you had to sign
to
attend these events i wonder...???

similar to the small print on a baseball stadium ticket
in case your hit by a foul ball...

The Dad Fisherman · 12-05-2008, 08:32 AM

I think the Father has been punished enough....