Political ThreadsThis section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:
I know, I know…just like the Clinton’s…just won’t go away…ole’ Nebe was probably pattin’ himself on the back…..but curiosity
So what I’m wondering is this…did any of the knee-jerkers ask themselves how they define unpatriotic and/or un-American?
Are the terms irrelevant or obsolete? I could argue both…but you hear them a lot form both sides….tolerance for their usage seems to depend on where you are standing at the moment…
Wait…no you’d rather debate which candidate represents more change and hope, right? “ I’m all about change…well, I’m about real change…well, I’m a change MERCHANT….oh, yeah, well, I’M THE AGENT OF CHANGE! ….NO WAIT, ….I’M THE SUPER CHANGER!!!” heh…heh
I picked Marxism and the dem candidates because bases on what I’ve seen here in the past I knew that it would draw the most ire and it was easy but replace Marxism in my comments with..Facism..or Communism…Totalitarianism …Radical Muslim…Mormonism(more later)…Mc Carthyism..Conservatism(pick your favorite “ism”…can any of those held as beliefs be considered un-American or by virtue of being an American and enjoying what that means is it impossible to be un-American and THEN...who gets to decide….can you condemn someone for drawing a line or distinction and then draw one for yourself and how do you justify it?? Because you assume that you are “the majority” are you then oppressing the minority??
One caveat, if you tell me that you would never, ever consider another American to be unpatriotic or un-American based on their beliefs then I applaud you…you at least are unwaveringly consistent, but I’m thinking that you are also likely few and far between
Dictionary definition: unpatriotic-deserting your allegiance or duty to leader or cause or principle
Un-American-not in accordance with the aims, ideals, or customs of the US , against the interests of the US
Someone remarked that with regard to a military member, Marxist beliefs would be OK but Radical Islamic beliefs “of course not”…why not?? Because that’s the flavor of the month? What about those that don’t believe that we’re actually in a war and that the radical islamists that dislike us so are justified because of our own actions, their hatred is our own fault and the result of American policies and if you believe that, how then could you alienate a US soldier who held those beliefs dear? Would you be consistent? If they held those beliefs but never acted can you really judge???
Harry Reid condemned a talk show host last year as UNPATRIOTIC for things that he believed were said, He took to the Senate floor a while later during the beginning of the “SURGE” and declared it an utter failure and the war in Iraq lost….with troops in the middle of a mission, likely under fire, would either of the two of the above definitions apply? Harry Reid would argue that his opposition to the war is actually what is PATRIOTIC and can then condemn it in any terms…Hell, Teddy Kennedy declared the war lost , “a QUAGMIRE”, and “another Vietnam”, three days after it began….one of our brightest military minds was called to congress, viciously savaged for the week leading up to the testimony and referred to a General Be-tray-us and then told he was a liar and a puppet before he ever said a word…Patriotic? I think a lot of folks would argue that all of this is perfectly justified because after all, the war is illegal and unjust right?? An MSNBC commentator recently declared crossover voting by Republican voters in dem primaries, while not illegal, un-American or unpatriotic…one or both, I forget, because of course, there have never been any instances of the SAME occuring REPUB. priamries
You can get enraged at me but ultimately I can’t say or do anything that will ever affect any of your lives…”just words”, truly
I read a column yesterday by a noted columnist in which Mormonism was deemed unpatriotic by it’s very nature…sound a little BROAD, wouldn’t you say eh…Dad?
I guess what I’m getting at is that there’s a lot of knee-jerk sensitivity to certain terms which I’ve proven ...and “just words” that send people into a tizzy, those that talk about shades of gray and tolerance are the first to “draw the line” according to their own beliefs and dismiss others for theirs……all over POLITICS
Maybe we should be more like the Europeans and have bi-partisanship and respectful debate always…wait a minute…have you ever seen what goes on over there in the government chambers….looks more like WWF than our own version …and they’ve had much more time to perfect bi-partisanship…
We are increasing being told that we are not allowed to judge by those that then weigh heavy handed judgment on those that disagree with them in terms far more offensive than the two above…those that claim the rights of “FREE SPEECH” will then organize an effort to destroy you, your livelihood or career for speech that is intentional, accidental, meant in humor or jest….anything found distasteful by their own standards….happens every day, apparently even worse in Canada and France…watch what you say there!
Spence, I’d love to talk “Teddy Rough Rider” with you… fascinating guy, fascinating times…but “where were YOU schooled”??? dude, that sounds so snobby…. The relevant point is that his actions "Teddy's" were motivated by the belief that from ancient republics to the present, republics failed when wealthy oligarchies exploited the poor or mobs plundered the rich, which insight he applied to the USA.”
I’m no genius, I’m no idiot, maybe a little mischievous…like to fish a lot and I see politics as a spectator sport because while the montra may be “every vote counts” ultimately each of us schmucks individually has very little effect on the overall process(especially if you are a democrat primary voter), just get all lathered up and mad yelling at each other about who is right and who is wrong….
1. “The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”
–Norman Thomas in 1969, former U.S. Socialist Party Presidential Candidate
"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else." - Theodore Roosevelt
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
Considering our government is giving tax breaks to companies that export jobs over seas, Id say that the definition of 'unpatriotic' or 'un-american' doesn't quite mean what it used to.
If you ask me, the most patriotic person out there is the one screaming and yelling to get everyone to wake up and realize that our country has been hijacked by corporate puppets to suck every dollar out of our economy and line the pockets of the rich.
Would you like me to define 'ignorant' or 'naive'?
Considering our government is giving tax breaks to companies that export jobs over seas, Id say that the definition of 'unpatriotic' or 'un-american' doesn't quite mean what it used to.
If you ask me, the most patriotic person out there is the one screaming and yelling to get everyone to wake up and realize that our country has been hijacked by corporate puppets to suck every dollar out of our economy and line the pockets of the rich.
Would you like me to define 'ignorant' or 'naive'?
MMMMMMMM Nafta.
Swimmer a.k.a. YO YO MA
Serial Mailbox Killer/Seal Fisherman
I was meeting with the VP of Engineering for an automotive supplier the other week who was praising NAFTA as a great thing.
While I did try I just couldn't get into ScottW's rant above, although one thing that does seem clear is his deep inability to reconcile moral relativism and the real world.
scenes from Obama's Houston supporters offices...but don't believe your eyes...it's probably just a case of "untrained ears" or untrained eyes too unsophisticated to understand the subtleties...RIGHT?
Ernesto "Che" Guevara (May 14, 1928 – October 9, 1967), commonly known as Che Guevara, El Che, or simply Che, was an Argentine "Marxist" revolutionary, politician, author, military theorist, physician, and guerrilla leader.
Hillary was for NAFTA before she was against it...wasn't she?
Spence, are we banning ranting now? Just because you have fancy pants it doesn't make you the smartest guy in the room ...
on your buddy Marx, I've read his stuff....actually it's very appealing in many ways, and he did have a great beard...but like most "academics", the real world has effects that are never accounted in the "closed system" where thay are created, I mean, look, if I wanted to hang around smoking pot all day with my buddies, John Lennin softly singing IMAGINE in the background, then I would probably be a big Marx fan, there's a lot there to justify my lay-aboutness, and afterall, can you really hold a guy accountable for other people that read his writings, get inspired and then go out and cause death, misery and repression an massive scales...funny though Marx, in all I've read about him, I can't find anything anywhere that says what he did for work...he was a self-annointed expert on social order, industry and commerce, government and I guess pretty much everything, yet having never held a job in the private sector, at least for very long...sounds remarkable like most elected democrats that come to mind...experts because they deem thenselves experts on everything and everything with little or no actual experience except maybe lawyering...hmmm
Marx was not able to hold a regular job. He was a parasite to his wife, Jenny (she had more class than Marx and was from a higher class than Marx), and his more affluent philosophical comrade, Friedrich Engels
Dad, can't disagree with that, but it seems that the TRUTH increasingly is becoming arbitrary and subject to political expedience...
I wonder why the same people who raged against the clothing sweatshops that employ underpaid, underage people are not protesting some of the same victims that assemble thier televisions and Ipods in the NAFTA friendly countries? When production of these electronic devices left the states they didn't get any cheaper. Maybe because th boat ride back cost so much.
Swimmer a.k.a. YO YO MA
Serial Mailbox Killer/Seal Fisherman
I wonder why the same people who raged against the clothing sweatshops that employ underpaid, underage people are not protesting some of the same victims that assemble thier televisions and Ipods in the NAFTA friendly countries? When production of these electronic devices left the states they didn't get any cheaper. Maybe because th boat ride back cost so much.
I don't think they are making too many of our electronics in Canada and Mexico. I'm pretty sure they are still being made in Asian sweat shops. And hopefully, if they are being made in Mexico and Canada, they have figured out that they don't need a boat to get the items to the U.S.
I wonder why the same people who raged against the clothing sweatshops that employ underpaid, underage people are not protesting some of the same victims that assemble thier televisions and Ipods in the NAFTA friendly countries? When production of these electronic devices left the states they didn't get any cheaper. Maybe because th boat ride back cost so much.
The vast majority of electronics are made in China today, and I'd argue things are much cheaper.
You can buy a DVD player for 25 dollars for cripes sake!
The vast majority of electronics are made in China today, and I'd argue things are much cheaper.
You can buy a DVD player for 25 dollars for cripes sake!
-spence
I read an article recently that stated that China is now exporting significant amounts of it's manufacturing base to neighboring countries, the numbers were staggering....I don't know what the unemployment rate is there...but...
scenes from Obama's Houston campaign headquarters...but don't believe your eyes...it's probably just a case of "untrained ears" or untrained eyes too unsophisticated to understand the subtleties...RIGHT?
Can't you even vet your own posts, or do you just not care if you spread misinformation?
I bet I read Snopes before you did?!?! Did you just stop at the first evidence that supported your view? what misinformation....did you watch the actual News Report?
Spence, whay do you think Hillary is so happy right now? I heard her yesterday and she's downright giddy...because she knows...in politics, if you don't define yourself you run the risk of allowing your opponent to define you...she knew that like in sports an upstart underdog team might make an early run at you but over time, the adrenalin will wear off and they'll make mistakes, Obama was exciting and new but he hasn't been around long enough to have a solid track record and these little things keep popping up that in the long run will result in doubt in the minds of the voters in the middle that you speak of...in my opinion the middle doesn't vote for the one they most support but against the one they have the most doubt about
those pics were from a news story immediately after super tuesday showing two Obama offices opening in the Houston area which were "opened by supporters and expected to be full of paid staffers by the end of the week", I gusee I should have said Obama's houston campaign supporters offices to be staffed in a few days or something....noone ever disputed the story, noone ever disputed the existence of the flag and never explained it either..it was not photoshopped, you should watch the follow up interview with the woman involved...pretty funny
bottom line, stuff like this along with Bill Ayers, the Rev., the things his wife says on occasion, Retzko, and a number of others are beginning to add up to larger questions, Hillary has artfully stayed away from directly attacking because she'll need his supporters in the long term, she'll attempt to place the blame for Obama's failure on the right...which makes perfect sense...she's going to have one hell of an argument come the convention, we'll see what hapens
I bet I read Snopes before you did?!?! Did you just stop at the first evidence that supported your view? what misinformation....did you watch the actual News Report?
So you read the Snopes report, understood that this wasn't in fact Obama's Houston campaign headquarters, understood that the Obama campaign condemed the display, and then posted otherwise to make it look like the Obama campaign was using an image of Che Guevara as a mascot...
But you weren't trying to mislead anyone? I'd say you and Barak have something in common.
fixed it...cool...no need to mislead, pictures are worth a thousand words, did Obama condemn this like he did Farakhan or was it more like when he suggested that his colleagues wearing flag lapel pins were hypocrits? because I watched the debate and he did so with respect to Farakhan very grudgingly and only did in strong terms after Hillary browbeat him for a while...are are you going to email all of the folks on Youtube that have used those images cause, that should keep you busy for a quite a while...and hey, it's not my flag, I don't care, maybe Obama didn't know but you can be sure that'll be part of the campaign down the road and taken in totality with a number of other things...I'm just lookin' at this politically, Hill is happy...Peace
btw...did the NY Times try to mislead anyone with the pic of McCain and the lobbyist on their cover suggesting...what?...has there been any correction or retraction? just wondering...
never judge a man by the actions of others that associate with the man you are judging. One should only judge a man by his actions. Not other's actions.
I don't think they are making too many of our electronics in Canada and Mexico. I'm pretty sure they are still being made in Asian sweat shops. And hopefully, if they are being made in Mexico and Canada, they have figured out that they don't need a boat to get the items to the U.S.
I
I know Sony has a huge TV assembly plant in Mexico. Those in the business say that the day production started there is a benchmark, because the quality was never the same. Not that it is that bad, but it is one reason why so many Sony products are in the return/second hand store in Wrentham.
Swimmer a.k.a. YO YO MA
Serial Mailbox Killer/Seal Fisherman
fixed it...cool...no need to mislead, pictures are worth a thousand words, did Obama condemn this like he did Farakhan or was it more like when he suggested that his colleagues wearing flag lapel pins were hypocrits? because I watched the debate and he did so with respect to Farakhan very grudgingly and only did in strong terms after Hillary browbeat him for a while...are are you going to email all of the folks on Youtube that have used those images cause, that should keep you busy for a quite a while...and hey, it's not my flag, I don't care, maybe Obama didn't know but you can be sure that'll be part of the campaign down the road and taken in totality with a number of other things...I'm just lookin' at this politically, Hill is happy...Peace
btw...did the NY Times try to mislead anyone with the pic of McCain and the lobbyist on their cover suggesting...what?...has there been any correction or retraction? just wondering...
just have fun!
So it's ok to mislead as long as you retract?
Did Obama actually call flag wearers hypocrits or did he just say he felt the flag pin had lost its meaning so he didn't want to feel forced to conform to some false norm? Not the same thing really...
The Nation of Islam, for all of Farrakan's faults, has produced some good in the black community to strengthen the family. Wouldn't it make sense for Obama, who might be in a good position to see the net gain given his work in inner city Chicago, to feel compelled to resist pandering to the mainstream who only see the negative?
And if you think wearing or not wearing a flag pin is going to really matter in the election, then I'm not sure how much respect you really have for the average voter. Weren't you just accusing me of being the snob?
only in a kind-hearted way, I think I've also expressed my affection for you...so touchy?
btw..got up later than intended and the wind was blowing the wrong direction but the fish were everywhere, I love mornings like this..
you can spin it however you want, this is another example of the radical element that surrounds Obama from the grass roots to his closest "Spiritual Advisor"...he constantly finds himself first excusing and then distancing or tepidly condemning people with whom he's been closely associated...NOT GOOD..the other two candidates don't have to do anything of the sort, and at this point in a presidential campaign or primary for that matter you should have solidified your base and begun talking to the entire country about electing you...he's increasingly becoming a "niche" candidate, I'm really beginning to admire Hillary, I honestly questioned her ability as a campaigner and seriously underestimated her, considering what has unfolded for her she's been unwaivering...kinda admire the stick-to-it-iveness
I'm guessing O was po'd about the flag, I mean, after all, these are his supporters, he's the candidate, these are to be his campaign offices and the interior decorator decides to go with a little tiny Obama pic and a giant Che flag..I'd be outraged as well!
I actually prefer the companion photo where he's grinning and jumping up and down....
this should go over very well in the heartland..."this ad paid for by the friends and close acquaintences of Obama for president"...should make a great tee shirt for the fall....I think we've located Obama's flag lapel pin stuck to the bottom of Bill's shoe...what is it with these people and flags anyway?? what do ya think Spence? I'm thinkin' Secretary of Education in an Obama administration, afterall, O told us that he's an esteemed professor of education, he clearly stands ready to serve his country if called and he has vast experience with developing practical, positive outlets for dealing with the anger and frustration of today's youth...I recall "KILL YOUR PARENTS"...and Bernadine!! I'm thinking Supreme Court for this beauty....reminds me of a Sesame Street song...OH, a terrorist is a person in your neighborhood...he's a person that you meet when your walkin' down the street, he's a person that ya greet each day...I know, Obama said he doesn't like the photo and we shouldn't hold him responsible for what his friends and acquaintences have done, but....you can tell a lot about a man by the company he keeps, this guys hangs out with some real winners apparently, throw one more body on the pile, they're stacking up like cordwood...stick to the message "CHANGE" and "HOPE"....this would be some change alright! I think Hamas recently endoresed Obama, could Hezbollah be next? I guess they're a little busy right now slaughtering in Lebanon so we might have to wait on that one....stay tuned....
Hagee who?? I think that was McCains response....
sorry I didn't get right back to ya Spence,I've been fishing a lot and this was getting boring, any luck trolling from the yacht yet??
Linear Mode
