Howard Stern Show’ Quizzes Obama Supporters in Harlem on Candidate Policies

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by Nebe

My point of those #'s was to prove that one needs 60 grand to live a comfortable lifestyle.. Not to get by.

If the masses of this country were empowered by better wages, they would spend more and as a result our nation would prosper. This great nation of ours started going down the crapper the moment 2 things happened- tarrifs on imports were dropped and exporting jobs was raised..

Please re-read the second paragraph of your post, I beg you.

If we up/inflate wages, business lose money and the only alternatives to going out of business are to layoffs or "exporting jobs." Once those products are made overseas we need to get them back into the country..... so we import them! (tariff free) because we need them!

And by the way, in my eyes, our nation has never been in the crapper.

[Nebe]

there is your flawed logic- you do not recognize that our economy is in the crapper..

oddly enough, i just noticed this piece in the NY Times..

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/15/bu...leonhardt.html

[RIJIMMY]

economy vs. country

economy yes, country no

[Nebe]

ecconomy is what I meant all along. I was not clear on that.

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by Nebe

ecconomy is what I meant all along. I was not clear on that.

I was answering you post where you said our Country was in the crapper, and I strongly defend that it is not.

I would agree that currently our economy IS in the crapper.

[Nebe]

its very hard to get your point across sometimes on here..

So if raising wages wont work, and the gubmint is broke... whats the answer?

[EarnedStripes44]

[QUOTE=Bronko;628940]Please re-read the second paragraph of your post, I beg you.

If we up/inflate wages, business lose money and the only alternatives to going out of business are to layoffs or "exporting jobs." Once those products are made overseas we need to get them back into the country..... so we import them! (tariff free) because we need them!
QUOTE]

Now I'm hardly an economist and please correct me if i'm wrong but...

If businesses rase wages, they will raise prices, but they dont have to ship jobs overseas if government protections are in place. A depression not withstanding, prices will go up anyway, its just a question of how much. The market and the elasticity of demand usually decides that.

But if we impose tariffs, we increase government revenue, pay down debt and domestic producers will fill the vacuum (ie made in America, remember that!) created by imports.

Keep in mind, the unregulated healthcare system screws businesses far more than incremental wage increases (most hardworkers get raises anyway, regardless of government wage mandates). Healthcare cost are out of control not wage increases. The burden is heaviest on employers. Health care cost chased american automakers across the Detroit River to Ontario precisely because government foots the bill and they ship the cars to US dealers practically duty free.

[Bronko]

[QUOTE=EarnedStripes44;628967]

Originally Posted by Bronko

Please re-read the second paragraph of your post, I beg you.

If we up/inflate wages, business lose money and the only alternatives to going out of business are to layoffs or "exporting jobs." Once those products are made overseas we need to get them back into the country..... so we import them! (tariff free) because we need them!
QUOTE]

Now I'm hardly an economist and please correct me if i'm wrong but...

If businesses rase wages, they will raise prices, but they dont have to ship jobs overseas if government protections are in place. A depression not withstanding, prices will go up anyway, its just a question of how much. The market and the elasticity of demand usually decides that.

But if we impose tariffs, we increase government revenue, pay down debt and domestic producers will fill the vacuum (ie made in America, remember that!) created by imports.

Keep in mind, the unregulated healthcare system screws businesses far more than incremental wage increases (most hardworkers get raises anyway, regardless of government wage mandates). Healthcare cost are out of control not wage increases. The burden is heaviest on employers. Health care cost chased american automakers across the Detroit River to Ontario precisely because government foots the bill and they ship the cars to US dealers practically duty free.

I think we agree more than we disagree. (healthcare/ tariffs) There is clearly a conundrum however in regards to wage/employment/outsourcing etc.

If businesses raise prices too high to cover their wage increases, consumers will throw the old "buy american" out the window to try and get the better (albeit foreign) deal.

It's no mystery, small and large businessmen have been walking the fine line between profit an loss forever while juggling costs and liability at the same time. The margins are shrinking.

And I would NEVER claim that I am an economist. I can barely add.

[Nebe]

raising prices is not always the answer to making more money.

for example if ford was to come out with a car that gets 30 mpg, sells for under 10 grand and looks nice, I am sure they will sell 10 times as many cars as one that gets 30 mpg and is 15 grand.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Nebe

So if raising wages wont work, and the gubmint is broke... whats the answer?

You've got to stop thinking like an honest man.

[Nebe]

oh.. BOMB IRAN!!

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Rather than focus on the negatives, lets focus on the positives.

What is a fair living wage in this country ? Id say its $15 to $20 an hour if your single. If the bulk of the lower class were making that kind of money, this country would be back on track again.

I have no idea what minimum wage is these days, but I figure its under $10 an hour...

What I am saying is that the cost of living has skyrocketed and personal income has stagnated. As a result, people are defaulting on their mortgages and credit card debt.. To solve this, people have to earn more money.. its the only solution.

A fair living wage is directly relative to how hard you are willing to work for it. Work hard earn more, not so hard not so much. Thats fair.

[Rockfishroger]

No surprise here

[Joe]

The lady who cleans my house can barely speak english - I asked her how many houses she cleans and said "25, some every week, and some every other week, and three businesses" She's pulling down a conservative 75K...It's hard work, but it beats sewing shirts in Guatemala.

[Colombianrico]

That's a LOT of work to catch up on. To even come near getting rid of American debt, every American Citizen, and I mean EVERY MAN, WOMAN, CHILD, BABY, SENIOR must pay $30,000. I believe this was an outcome set by my "parents," well not literally since they weren't born here, but I think you get my point. The issue of "living beyond our means" is far more complicated than just that. You should be cautious when you describe complications with simple phrases as such. Simple phrases like "work harder = make more" or "class warefare," or "Americans are lazy."

Our educational system is failing, and it is failing miserably. A faltering educational system inandofitself is a wash of money. If American citizens do not have a reliable educational system, they will present with situations that cost money from EVERYONE. Educational level is both directly and indirectly related to:

Crime, poverty, health disparities and chronic disease, drug abuse, drug misuse, drug use in general, political involvement, political awareness, environmental awareness, utilization of resources to further socioeconomic progression, and much more....

Failures of these cost society a TON of money. Proof? The United States has the highest child poverty rate in the developed world.

And that's just the problem of education. Don't forget the problems of our reliance on fossil fuels has polluted our environment. This alone has also affected the health of today's youth. In fact, their lifespan are expected to be shorter!

We can not even provide proper nutrition to all of our citizens. The flaws of our old legislation alone has cost us sooooo much money, and most don't even realize it.

I agree with you that Americans live far beyond their means, I don't doubt that at all. But there are variety of larger factors that really come into play.

I'm just trying to get rid of the stereotype that Americans are arrogant and lazy. Besides working harder and making more money, there should be more. Even if we caught up on our own debt, our society has been set up to consistently waste money instead of utilizing it properly and efficiently.

If you want to blame a poor job market on illegal immigrants, then you should be blaming America in the first place for exploiting their home countries to an inhumane extent that they have no other choice but to seek work HERE. It all kinda goes back to our structural flaws.

Progressive thinking, social tolerance, volunteering, distribution of quality education, provision of health care to prevent unneccesary health care costs....pretty much restoration of everything that's failing, I feel like that's what we need (and more) in addition to just working harder and spending less.

[RIJIMMY]

wow, I dont have enough energy to respond to all of that! So just some food for thought.
1. is our education system failing? Or is that parents are failing there children? Libraries and access to many musuems are FREE.
2. Americans have the most malnurished children among developed nations? Are you sure about that statistic? From what I can see, children in school can get free lunches is they qualify. Once again, I blame the parerts. Carrots are cheaper than Doritos.
3. I dont think Americans are ignorant and lazy, but I am pretty sure that a large percentage of those Americans who have children who are not getting enough nutrition or educatation are lazy.
One word and its something I see slipping away from all facets of live - Accountability!
And it comes from the top down - anyone hear Obama on meet the press with his cigarette addiction? He basically tells Brokaw that he has not quit but says " I have been doing a terrific job" since when is failing terrific? Accountability!