Hate To Say I Was Right But........

[Joe]

Back when I was on welfare during the Clinton Administration, I went to night school at Bryant. I can remember the professors saying that government should increase spending to stimulate an economy in recession. They had a bunch of small letters after their names and they wore tweed and were very convincing.

[striperman36]

Yup, thats the way to do it.
But, we are just printing money.
we don't have any value behind it.

[Nebe]

just sold something!!...

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

just sold something!!...

Blood and/or Semen don't count





was it that big contract you were bidding on?

[Nebe]

[eastendlu]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Yup, thats the way to do it.
But, we are just printing money.
we don't have any value behind it.

Since when does value behind money matter when it comes to any government?All they do is just print more or more zeros on it and if that fails they issue new currency.

[striperman36]

and then we have rampant inflation.

[Joe]

We're experiencing deflation right now. Inflation favors debtors and punishes savers. Since we're a nation of debtors, its not as bad as it used to be.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Wrong on all counts.

1) There is a ton of cash out there held by investors too afraid to risk it. When people have real solutions to solve the world's gigantic energy needs they will invest and make a killing.

2) The government already has no money.

3) The United States has the best IP protection, legal system and innovative culture in the world. This isn't going to change in the next 20-30 years regardless of what China and India do.

Investors abroad still see the US Dollar as a lower risk currency, even with our trillions in debt. It's because for the near future well still are the heart of the global economy.

-spence

I wont bother to debate. Time will tell. The United States has the most inovative cuture in the world? Hmm..... how are those auto manufacturers doing? Anyone own a US TV? DVD? Cellphone?
I'm curious, what have we innovated lately? Transfats at Burger King?

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I wont bother to debate. Time will tell. The United States has the most inovative cuture in the world? Hmm..... how are those auto manufacturers doing? Anyone own a US TV? DVD? Cellphone?
I'm curious, what have we innovated lately? Transfats at Burger King?

So when it comes to flag burning, troop bashing or liberal anti-war rhetoric we live in the greatest country in the world bar-none.

But when the economy suffers a serious blow and we are mired in a major recession, we are a ship of fools that can't get out of our own way? We are a populous of un-skilled, un-inspired goons who are intellectually inferior?


You need to take a deep breath.

[Joe]

We make whatever we want that is viable and there are virtually no barriers to entry into the marketplace. We have the most supportive economy for entrepreneurship and the largest, most open, vibrant economy in the world. Even now.

The strength of the American Economy is that we are free to act upon any viable idea we may have so long as we have the capital to enter the market. TVs, Phones - that stuff is not viable to make here, but there is a lot of stuff that is and if you look around you'll see a lot of people making and selling things.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Bronko

So when it comes to flag burning, troop bashing or liberal anti-war rhetoric we live in the greatest country in the world bar-none.

But when the economy suffers a serious blow and we are mired in a major recession, we are a ship of fools that can't get out of our own way? We are a populous of un-skilled, un-inspired goons who are intellectually inferior?


You need to take a deep breath.

theres no politics or pride in economics, theres data. Look at the data. Look at what we produce, look at what we owe, look at we save. Look at what got us where we are today. Where a consumer nation thats out of money.
Let me put it this way, 20yrs ago there were no "yuppie" fishing stores live SWE, guys didnt spend 600+ on a fsihing reel, 25+ on plugs, etc. All of that is the result of the 90s boom, easy credit. Those days are done, period. Argue all you want and many have, but noone is showing me DATA to prove me wrong. I have seen a lot of data suggesting that this countries opportunites for growth, a relatively stead increase since WWII is over. Like it or not.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

We make whatever we want that is viable and there are virtually no barriers to entry into the marketplace. We have the most supportive economy for entrepreneurship and the largest, most open, vibrant economy in the world. Even now.

The strength of the American Economy is that we are free to act upon any viable idea we may have so long as we have the capital to enter the market. TVs, Phones - that stuff is not viable to make here, but there is a lot of stuff that is and if you look around you'll see a lot of people making and selling things.

sounds good Joe, but reality is, we invent something, then ship it overseas for them to produce, sure the stock of the inventing/owning company goes up, but the production is done elsewhere. Prove me wrong? What major consumer product is made here? Van Stalls? Clothes? Penn reels? Cars? Corn? what??? You might say computers, but you'd be wrong, all those parts are made in Korea and Mexico.

I dont know what everyone here does for a lving and I dont want to sound pompous, but I am informed working for one of the largest investment companies in the world. I know Wee Wee/Poo poo works in this industry too. Search his posts, he is as negative as I am. I believe he suggested putting all your money in gold bars in your basement. This is NOT a standard recession, you guys need to take a step back and LOOK.

[Bishop169]

I worked for one of the larger if not the largest investment companies here in the states and the truth of it is the one tradable commodity in America is Money….

The issue is we have no industry 60-70% of American cars are made over sees …… we buy lumber and some food stuffs from Canada its crazy…. we invest and offer insurances that is our leading industry. The issue is how long can we depend on one thing with no back up we are like every Hollywood starlet making big cake with nothing to fall back on. Sure we were once great and we can be there again…

We need to bring American industry back to us soil… I agree with RIJIMMY

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

theres no politics or pride in economics, theres data. Look at the data. Look at what we produce, look at what we owe, look at we save. Look at what got us where we are today. Where a consumer nation thats out of money.
Let me put it this way, 20yrs ago there were no "yuppie" fishing stores live SWE, guys didnt spend 600+ on a fsihing reel, 25+ on plugs, etc. All of that is the result of the 90s boom, easy credit. Those days are done, period. Argue all you want and many have, but noone is showing me DATA to prove me wrong. I have seen a lot of data suggesting that this countries opportunites for growth, a relatively stead increase since WWII is over. Like it or not.

I just want to be clear. You are now listening to and quoting some of the same guys who never saw this coming, and if they did see it coming, failed to inform each and every one of their clients of the impending doom correct?

Because now in hindsight for the casual market observer, the DATA was clear as day for those in the business.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I wont bother to debate. Time will tell. The United States has the most inovative cuture in the world? Hmm..... how are those auto manufacturers doing? Anyone own a US TV? DVD? Cellphone?
I'm curious, what have we innovated lately? Transfats at Burger King?

TPI, which is your HOME STATE pushed alot on the CF engineering front of wind turbine blades.

You should drive by there and look at the number of blade molds they have in the lot, definitely more than when they were primarily building boats.

ps: They're hiring STILL.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Bronko

I just want to be clear. You are now listening to and quoting some of the same guys who never saw this coming, and if they did see it coming, failed to inform each and every one of their clients of the impending doom correct?

Because now in hindsight for the casual market observer, the DATA was clear as day for those in the business.

No, this analysis is from the highest level economists who did see this coming and warned about it. These are not the fund manager.sMy firm was not involved in the mortgage/credit issues. This analysis is for what we (the company) should invest in. Since we are a global investment company, we are looking for opportunites anywhere. All the opportunites noted are exteral to the US. China, emerging markets. That is where the growth will be.
To be clear I am not saying we become a third world country. I am saying opportunites will be much different for us. The standard of living many have been accustomed to, will be lower. Think of wall street alone - those firms payed bonuses every year whihc are over the average US employees salary. And thats not just for the top execs. Those days are over. Think of the massive impact that has! How much less "extra" money will people be spending? I remember I commented on a tread years back on why there were so many luxury car commercials in december/january. Its beccasue firms are paying out big bonuses, we're not talkking a ham and a $50 check. 50,60,70, - 1Million plus are the bonues financial firms pay........

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by likwid

TPI, which is your HOME STATE pushed alot on the CF engineering front of wind turbine blades.

You should drive by there and look at the number of blade molds they have in the lot, definitely more than when they were primarily building boats.

ps: They're hiring STILL.

you're looking in front of you and not ahead. Who is a major component of their work? The Military. Lets see, economic downturn, democratic president. So, do you see an increase in defense spending? Layoffs will be on the way.
And blade molds in the lot, means unused inventory. talk to me when the lot is empty.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

No, this analysis is from the highest level economists who did see this coming and warned about it. These are not the fund manager.sMy firm was not involved in the mortgage/credit issues. This analysis is for what we (the company) should invest in. Since we are a global investment company, we are looking for opportunites anywhere. All the opportunites noted are exteral to the US. China, emerging markets. That is where the growth will be.
To be clear I am not saying we become a third world country. I am saying opportunites will be much different for us. The standard of living many have been accustomed to, will be lower. Think of wall street alone - those firms payed bonuses every year whihc are over the average US employees salary. And thats not just for the top execs. Those days are over. Think of the massive impact that has! How much less "extra" money will people be spending? I remember I commented on a tread years back on why there were so many luxury car commercials in december/january. Its beccasue firms are paying out big bonuses, we're not talkking a ham and a $50 check. 50,60,70, - 1Million plus are the bonues financial firms pay........

Jimmy,

All I want to know is what impact will all of this have on the price of eels in the coming months?

[RIJIMMY]

thats easy! since gas $ is lower and there will be less discretrionary income for most people to spend, I predict a surplus in the eel market from 2009 to 2010.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

thats easy! since gas $ is lower and there will be less discretrionary income for most people to spend, I predict a surplus in the eel market from 2009 to 2010.

Hmmmmmmmm, time to build that swimming pool I've always wanted for bulk eel storage. By the time we come out of the great depression part II, I'll have the market cornered.

Ok, I'm getting this thread off track here.....back to the gloom and doom, please...

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I dont know what everyone here does for a lving and I dont want to sound pompous, but I am informed working for one of the largest investment companies in the world. I know Wee Wee/Poo poo works in this industry too. Search his posts, he is as negative as I am. I believe he suggested putting all your money in gold bars in your basement. This is NOT a standard recession, you guys need to take a step back and LOOK.

And then do WHAT after we look? Are you saying that we are erasing all of the 'prosperity' achieved since WWII? Or maybe since 1992 forward. How far back are we going in terms of the world economy?

[EarnedStripes44]

...also, we have the greatest educational/research institutions in the world

Sure india and China may have more computer scientists, but they where do they come for the PhDs, the great US of A.

Education needs to be affordable for the domestic youth. The kids are dumber than the adults these days, it needs to be the other way around.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

...also, we have the greatest educational/research institutions in the world

Sure india and China may have more computer scientists, but they where do they come for the PhDs, the great US of A.

Education needs to be affordable for the domestic youth. The kids are dumber than the adults these days, it needs to be the other way around.

Who runs the technology in your house?

[Joe]

Maybe a sea change is what we need.
Wall St is great brain drain on the country - all these very smart people moving money around that only enrich a few lives. The best and the brightest could do so much more.
Maybe after they get laid off they'll take down the Gordon Gecko poster, put away Sun Tzu's Art Of War, and start companies that put people to work.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I wont bother to debate. Time will tell. The United States has the most inovative cuture in the world? Hmm..... how are those auto manufacturers doing? Anyone own a US TV? DVD? Cellphone?
I'm curious, what have we innovated lately? Transfats at Burger King?

The auto companies don't suffer from a lack of innovation, they suffer from labor unions and a giagantic oil lobby that stifles innovation domestically.

There never has been much high-tech manufactured in the USA, but there's plenty of product design going on, and that's where the innovation really happens...and a lot of it right here.

-spence

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by spence

The auto companies don't suffer from a lack of innovation, they suffer from labor unions and a giagantic oil lobby that stifles innovation domestically.
-spence

Add slowing consumer demand and obsolesence to the list too. We're basically looking at a %$%$%$%$ty business from the top down. Bailouts prolong the inevitable. I also read many of the UAW members receive almost 80% of their compensation when they're laid off too. They need to "save" these companies so the union hacks can survive. It has nothing to do with changing the business model or product.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

I also read many of the UAW members receive almost 80% of their compensation when they're laid off too.

Thats not true!!!!






***its actually 95%***

and they wonder why they are in a financial mess

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Add slowing consumer demand and obsolesence to the list too. We're basically looking at a %$%$%$%$ty business from the top down. Bailouts prolong the inevitable. I also read many of the UAW members receive almost 80% of their compensation when they're laid off too. They need to "save" these companies so the union hacks can survive. It has nothing to do with changing the business model or product.

Excellent post.

[RIJIMMY]

take a look at what this guy thinks is going to happen. Won the nobel prize for economics....

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Paul Krugman, winner of this year's Nobel economics prize, said on Monday that the world could face a Japan-style, decade-long slump.


Paul Krugman of the U.S., winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics for 2008, gives his Nobel lecture at Stockholm University in Stockholm December 8, 2008. REUTERS/Bob Strong
Speaking in Stockholm where he will collect his 10 million Swedish crowns ($1.3 million) prize, U.S. economist Krugman again called on policy makers to spend liberally to cushion a withering global downturn.

"A scenario I fear is that we'll see, for the whole world, an equivalent of Japan's lost decade, the 1990s -- that we'll see a world of zero interest rates, deflation, no sign of recovery, and it will just go on for a very extended period," he told a news conference.

"And that's unfortunately very easy to see happen."

Krugman added that in his worst case scenario there would also be a series of extremely serious crises "in particular countries that are in big trouble."

He said there were already premonitions of economic and political crises in line with those in Argentina and Indonesia in the 1990s-early 2000s, particularly "in the European periphery."

Iceland and Latvia are among European countries that have been hit hard by the global financial crisis.

"We can easily be talking about a world economy that is depressed until 2011 and maybe beyond," Krugman said.

"If there's a safe place I can't see it."

Krugman is in the Swedish capital for the "Nobel Week," when laureates attend news conferences and events culminating with the prize ceremony and a gala dinner on Wednesday.

(Reporting by Anna Ringstrom; Editing by Victoria Main)