Bush's legacy...hero to zero?

[Back Beach]

I remember 9/11 like it was yesterday. In particular, I remember the "W" address to our nation from atop a smoking pile of rubble and ensuing response the US made. He seemd like a hero to me at the time.
On the eve of the "W" farewell address, I feel like once again he's standing atop a smoking pile of (literal) rubble. He's got a big pair of donkey ears now instead of a megaphone. Anyone else feel this way, and how will you remember him?

[Nebe]

He will be remembered as a complete tool who chose to guide this country based on Ideals Vs. rational thought. Furthermore, the ones who held his puppet strings as he chased rabbits while the farm burned are laughing themselves right to the bank.

[The Dad Fisherman]

He'll always be 4th best in line....Right after Bozo, Clarabell, and Krusty

[Rockport24]

I remember that moment on 9/11 as well and I remember thinking how maybe GWB was going to be a great president..... then I actually woke up and starting educating myself on political affairs and that all went out the window...
still though, that speech was good (I think that was the last good one though)

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

that speech was good (I think that was the last good one though)

For all we know, they had that speach planned months before..

[Raven]

who !

never heard of him

and don't care to

thanks a whole Bunch

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Nebe

For all we know, they had that speach planned months before..

which would then make him and Cheney the greatest geniuses of all time.

You cant have it both ways.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

He's got a big pair of donkey ears now

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

I remember 9/11 like it was yesterday. In particular, I remember the "W" address to our nation from atop a smoking pile of rubble and ensuing response the US made. He seemd like a hero to me at the time.
On the eve of the "W" farewell address, I feel like once again he's standing atop a smoking pile of (literal) rubble. He's got a big pair of donkey ears now instead of a megaphone. Anyone else feel this way, and how will you remember him?

Well put.
I do believe he has had the country best interest at heart. I also believe he is honest and genuine. I know one thing for sure. He set the Republican party backwards,. I just wish they were more forceful in defending themselfs and the positions they took. Taking the high road does not work in Washington.

[spence]

Did anyone watch Bush's farewell address last night?

There should be no doubt left that Bush is living in an alternate universe, seeing his legacy only as he wishes to see it, and not caring one whip if you don't agree.

A few times I don't know how he kept a straight face.

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

Did anyone watch Bush's farewell address last night?

There should be no doubt left that Bush is living in an alternate universe, seeing his legacy only as he wishes to see it, and not caring one whip if you don't agree.

A few times I don't know how he kept a straight face.

-spence

I watched more of his address than Obama did.

[PaulS]

I think he's a smart guy who loves his country (as do all people who go into politics) but he's intellectually lazy and uncurious. That causes him to not read papers, watch the news, ask questions, etc. and thus, when someone like a Cheney or a Rumsfield would tell him something, he would go along with it w/o thinking it thru or the ramifications.

[buckman]

Here's a little prediction that we all know will come true and already has started..... Obama will keep most, if not all Bush policies in effect.... the dems will now love those same policies, that they hated Bush for...... And they will take credit for the good that comes out of them while hanging Bush with anything bad that happens over the next four years.

[eastendlu]

Originally Posted by buckman

Here's a little prediction that we all know will come true and already has started..... Obama will keep most, if not all Bush policies in effect.... the dems will now love those same policies, that they hated Bush for...... And they will take credit for the good that comes out of them while hanging Bush with anything bad that happens over the next four years.

What are your predictions for the stock market i'd like to bet against you and become independently wealthy.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by eastendlu

What are your predictions for the stock market i'd like to bet agoinst you and become independently wealthy.

so far

- Obama is keeping Bush tax cuts in place, a reversal of his prior statements
- He is keeping the same general in charge in Iraq and just this week Clinton said " Both she and the President are intersted in ending the war in Iraq responslibly" What the hell does that mean? Wasnt that McCain's stance? I thought Obama was all about withdrawing troups?

More to come

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

ending the war in Iraq responslibly" What the hell does that mean? Wasnt that McCain's stance? I thought Obama was all about withdrawing troups?
More to come

McCain's take was 'As long as it takes'

HOPEFULLY, to me, responsibly ending it means a steady draw down of forces in the next year, until we have a minimal presence, at least on the front lines... too many kids getting killed for no reason.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by buckman

Here's a little prediction that we all know will come true and already has started..... Obama will keep most, if not all Bush policies in effect.... the dems will now love those same policies, that they hated Bush for...... And they will take credit for the good that comes out of them while hanging Bush with anything bad that happens over the next four years.

I think your right to some extent. But not with the extreme policies.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by buckman

Here's a little prediction that we all know will come true and already has started..... Obama will keep most, if not all Bush policies in effect.... the dems will now love those same policies, that they hated Bush for...... And they will take credit for the good that comes out of them while hanging Bush with anything bad that happens over the next four years.

Pls. tell me when Obama starts embracing ignorance and assaulting science, environmental policies, worker's rights, a womans right to choose, starts torturing people, politicizing the justice department, cooking intelligence for political ends, etc. and I'll start critizing Obama.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Pls. tell me when Obama starts embracing ignorance and assaulting science, environmental policies, worker's rights, a womans right to choose, starts torturing people, politicizing the justice department, cooking intelligence for political ends, etc. and I'll start critizing Obama.

nice one!!!

[buckman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Pls. tell me when Obama starts embracing ignorance and assaulting science, environmental policies, worker's rights, a womans right to choose, starts torturing people, politicizing the justice department, cooking intelligence for political ends, etc. and I'll start critizing Obama.

Right. and there have been no advances in science in the last 8 years. No funding at all. Workers rights have changes how? A woman's right to abort an unborn child has changed how? I'll use the " your child is buried in a box somewhere" analogy to defend mild forms of information exstraction. The intelligence Bush used was the same that everyone including Clinton had. You have Obama on a pedistal without him doing a damn thing.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Right. and there have been no advances in science in the last 8 years. No funding at all. Workers rights have changes how? A woman's right to abort an unborn child has changed how? I'll use the " your child is buried in a box somewhere" analogy to defend mild forms of information exstraction. The intelligence Bush used was the same that everyone including Clinton had. You have Obama on a pedistal without him doing a damn thing.

The intrusion of politics over science in the making of policy was unprecidented during the Bush years, and the influence of corporate interests in matters such as workplace safety through deregulation efforts were driven by idiology and not common sense.

Buttman, it's like you're trying to rip Obama down before he's had the chance to do a damn thing.

Sometimes I think some people just don't get why others are so critical of the Bush Administration. They are so convinced the Liberals just had the "man" they have forgotten what makes America so great.

-spence

[TheSpecialist]

If Bush's legacy is so bad why is Obama keeping Bush people around, for instance the Secdef, and the guy getting promoted to fed chief.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

The intrusion of politics over science in the making of policy was unprecidented during the Bush years, -spence

BINGO.

I can tell you there is a list of top level scientists at NASA, EPA, NOAA who have been stifled by the administration; You can call it Gore BS, since he talked about the editing of reports in 'Truth' BUT

there is a top level guy at EPA, who specializes in Sea level rise, rates, costs, etc, and has been studying it and working on policy since the 80's. He was basically told to shut up and any comments and reports he was to make, would go through the administrators from now on. Peer review is one thing, it is what science thrives on. Political review kills science. Plain and simple.

"If Bush's legacy is so bad why is Obama keeping Bush people around, for instance the Secdef, and the guy getting promoted to fed chief."
Because some of them are qualified, I think keeping Gates on was a GREAT move. it should be about putting good people in position to do good things.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

The intrusion of politics over science in the making of policy was unprecidented during the Bush years, and the influence of corporate interests in matters such as workplace safety through deregulation efforts were driven by idiology and not common sense.

Buttman, it's like you're trying to rip Obama down before he's had the chance to do a damn thing.

Sometimes I think some people just don't get why others are so critical of the Bush Administration. They are so convinced the Liberals just had the "man" they have forgotten what makes America so great.-spence

Buttman! Is that's the best the smartest man on the internet could come up with. How disappointing, Truth be told SPENCE the work place has never, I repeat never been safer, more worker friendly and more employee protected. Ever! Do you even work in a real work enviroment. Try to fire someone for being a slacker now a days. It can't be done.


I'm not ripping the MAN down. I'm just not saying he can walk on water. Hell, if he does 1/3 of what he said, I'll be voting for him in four years.

[buckman]

So what your saying SPENCE is that you have a hunch the work place will be less safe based on what you think Bush may or may not have done.

Now I get the point. Here I was dealing with facts.

And please, if you have any good Buckman jokes step too the front of the classroom and share with the rest of us.

And I didn't rip Obama in this thread. I just lack the confidence in him that others have. I hope I'm wrong

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

So what your saying SPENCE is that you have a hunch the work place will be less safe based on what you think Bush may or may not have done.

I think Bush is going too far in allowing the conditions for the workplace to be less safe because they're pandering to the interests of business rather than the people.

And facts without context are just meaningless numbers. The facts you quoted, in context of the discussion don't conclude much for reasons already stated.

-spence

[RIROCKHOUND]

Actually;
I think this thread clearly started as he did do some things right.
in my mind:
1. He/his administration in the days immediately post-9/11 were nearly flawless
2. he went into Afganastan after Bin Laden and the Taliban BUT
this got mucked up, and we went into Iraq too. I think we and the world, would be exponentially better off if we had stayed 100% focused on the war on terror in Afgan. instead of %$%$%$%$ing around in Iraq. On larry king recently he openly admitted he has no clue IF we ever even got CLOSE to getting Bin laden....

Di he do every single thing wrong?
Nope.
Did he do more wrong then right, in my eyes a big YUP!

[buckman]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Actually;
I think this thread clearly started as he did do some things right.
in my mind:
1. He/his administration in the days immediately post-9/11 were nearly flawless
2. he went into Afganastan after Bin Laden and the Taliban BUT
this got mucked up, and we went into Iraq too. I think we and the world, would be exponentially better off if we had stayed 100% focused on the war on terror in Afgan. instead of %$%$%$%$ing around in Iraq. On larry king recently he openly admitted he has no clue IF we ever even got CLOSE to getting Bin laden....

Di he do every single thing wrong?
Nope.
Did he do more wrong then right, in my eyes a big YUP!

I agree Brian.
We don't know the direction Iraq would have taken if we had done things different. I guess we will never know. Hind sight is never the best way to look at a situation but it is the best way to never make the same mistakes again.....but we will.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by buckman

I agree Brian.
We don't know the direction Iraq would have taken if we had done things different. I guess we will never know. Hind sight is never the best way to look at a situation but it is the best way to never make the same mistakes again.....but we will.

I suggest you read this.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ir...r_vs_euro.html

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by buckman

I agree Brian.
We don't know the direction Iraq would have taken if we had done things different. I guess we will never know. Hind sight is never the best way to look at a situation but it is the best way to never make the same mistakes again.....but we will.

And for the record; I teach science at the college level and am in graduate school, so I spend a lot of time around college aged-kids

I don't think I know an undergrad who believes Bush was the mastermind of 9/11... and I'm a geology department, we are crunchier than most!