You just can say it,can you media?

[RIJIMMY]

Controversial minister off Obama's campaignStory Highlights
Barack Obama's former pastor has said 9/11 attacks were brought on by America


(CNN) -- A Chicago minister who delivered a fiery sermon about Sen. Hillary Clinton having an advantage over Sen. Barack Obama in the presidential race because she is white is no longer a part of the Obama campaign.

The Rev. Jeremiah Wright is no longer serving on the African American Religious Leadership Committee, campaign sources told CNN.

Yep, that minister is "controversial, and "fiery", whats the word I keep thinking of, you know, When DOn Imus, an enterntainer, makes an off the cuff comment it instantly gets the label - RACISM. But when a black misinster, writes a PREMEDITATED sermons, spewing hate, its "fiery" Can anyone find any media that calls this guy what he is, a 100% RACIST.

[Hooper]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Controversial minister off Obama's campaignStory Highlights
Barack Obama's former pastor has said 9/11 attacks were brought on by America


(CNN) -- A Chicago minister who delivered a fiery sermon about Sen. Hillary Clinton having an advantage over Sen. Barack Obama in the presidential race because she is white is no longer a part of the Obama campaign.

The Rev. Jeremiah Wright is no longer serving on the African American Religious Leadership Committee, campaign sources told CNN.

Yep, that minister is "controversial, and "fiery", whats the word I keep thinking of, you know, When DOn Imus, an enterntainer, makes an off the cuff comment it instantly gets the label - RACISM. But when a black misinster, writes a PREMEDITATED sermons, spewing hate, its "fiery" Can anyone find any media that calls this guy what he is, a 100% RACIST.

Jimmy, right on. It is funny to watch BO run from this guy like he was on fire. Supposedly, this minister and BO are extremely close for 20 years. And now that it's politically damaging, he's distancing himself from him, but, why not years ago? Maybe because the minister has been singing a song BO loves to hear? We'll see....

[mosholu]

I just read Obama's speech on this and I thought he did a pretty good job. I do not know whether it will change people's minds but it will give comfort to those people who were starting to question him. I found what the Rev. was saying way over the line for a Church service and required quite a leap of logic but I have to say living overseas I hear stuff like that all the time.

[Skip N]

The Rev is as racist and twisted as they come...What a piece of crap that guy is. And BO attended this guys church for 20 years?! And BO says he never knew the Rev said this kinda stuff? hahaha yeah right dude! BO is done....

[Nebe]

after listening to the reverend's sound bites I actually agree with a lot of what he said. The fact is if you are black you WILL face hardships that a white person will never understand.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

The Rev is as racist and twisted as they come...What a piece of crap that guy is. And BO attended this guys church for 20 years?! And BO says he never knew the Rev said this kinda stuff? hahaha yeah right dude! BO is done....

The man dedicates his life to helping people and you think he's a "piece of crap" because you saw a sound bite on Hannity?

I don't agree with much of what I heard, but at least I'm able to separate the wheat from the chaff...

What's with this all or nothing rhetoric everybody seems to be driven by these days? Sure it makes for exciting radio but below the surface it doesn't make much sense to a rational person.

-spence

[Raven]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

When DOn Imus, an enterntainer, makes an off the cuff comment it instantly gets the label - RACISM. But when a black misinster, writes a PREMEDITATED sermons, spewing hate, its "fiery" Can anyone find any media that calls this guy what he is, a 100% RACIST.

great point because the Don Imus show is/was all about comedy
and nappy headed ho was meant as a comedy comment
and it wasn't thought of in advance like the reverends sermon was...

yet he was labeled a racist and it cost him big time effectively ending his televison career or show and he helps kids with cancer at his ranch...
all the while that reference to ho's and nappy headed people are used daily on the airwaves in popular song...

not really fair...at all... so where's Al Sharpton now

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by Raven

great point because the Don Imus show is/was all about comedy
and nappy headed ho was meant as a comedy comment
and it wasn't thought of in advance like the reverends sermon was...

yet he was labeled a racist and it cost him big time effectively ending his televison career or show and he helps kids with cancer at his ranch...
all the while that reference to ho's and nappy headed people are used daily on the airwaves in popular song...

not really fair...at all... so where's Al Sharpton now

First off I believe Imus was canned because those particular comments were the straw the broke the camel's back in a series of comments. The comments regarding hos was directed at a particular group of women on a team and not a generic reference in a song (although to me both are equally wrong). I think and what Obama was saying in his speech today is that there is good and bad in everyone and you can not judge people by a soundbite etc. As you point out Imus has done some good things for people in his career. Obama says that he has known the Rev. for 20 odd years and knows of a lot of good that he has done even if he disagrees with some of the things he says. He said he was bothered the same way about the Rev. as he was when his white grandmother would use a racial reference. In someways you are each making the same argument about a person you believe is a mix of good and bad, basically human. What I thought was positive about his speech was he was not trying to make the issue go away but set out some basic points that both whites and blacks will have to address if we want to move forward on race issues. It was the first time in a long time I heard a politician come out and just state the case with no gloss or bs. He may not win but it was a pretty brave thing to do.

btw I do not buy the argument that Imus' comment was not premeditated. If he had said something in anger that would be one thing. He was trying to push people's buttons in repeating what the other guy said and unfortunately for his career pushed a few too many.

[Skip N]

I'm starting to realize why Michelle Obama made the commets she made about not being proud of America until recently, she must be listening to the nut job Rev. I'm seeing a connection here....

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by mosholu

First off I believe Imus was canned because those particular comments were the straw the broke the camel's back in a series of comments. The comments regarding hos was directed at a particular group of women on a team and not a generic reference in a song (although to me both are equally wrong). I think and what Obama was saying in his speech today is that there is good and bad in everyone and you can not judge people by a soundbite etc. As you point out Imus has done some good things for people in his career. Obama says that he has known the Rev. for 20 odd years and knows of a lot of good that he has done even if he disagrees with some of the things he says. He said he was bothered the same way about the Rev. as he was when his white grandmother would use a racial reference. In someways you are each making the same argument about a person you believe is a mix of good and bad, basically human. What I thought was positive about his speech was he was not trying to make the issue go away but set out some basic points that both whites and blacks will have to address if we want to move forward on race issues. It was the first time in a long time I heard a politician come out and just state the case with no gloss or bs. He may not win but it was a pretty brave thing to do.

btw I do not buy the argument that Imus' comment was not premeditated. If he had said something in anger that would be one thing. He was trying to push people's buttons in repeating what the other guy said and unfortunately for his career pushed a few too many.

He made the speech because he had too. This speech was immediately scheduled once his advisors realized that conservative pundits were not going to let this die. He didn't do the brave thing, he did the smart thing. The brave thing would have been to stand in front of that racist pig years ago and tell him unless he can open his mind and embrace HOPE and CHANGE, then he was going to take his family and his tens of thousands of dollars in donation and find somebody that will.

The ironic thing about this is that the liberals are caught up in defending a man of the cloth and praising the congregation and the conservatives are attacking the man of the cloth and trying to divide the congregation. NOW I have seen it all.

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by Bronko

He made the speech because he had too. This speech was immediately scheduled once his advisors realized that conservative pundits were not going to let this die. He didn't do the brave thing, he did the smart thing. The brave thing would have been to stand in front of that racist pig years ago and tell him unless he can open his mind and embrace HOPE and CHANGE, then he was going to take his family and his tens of thousands of dollars in donation and find somebody that will.

The ironic thing about this is that the liberals are caught up in defending a man of the cloth and praising the congregation and the conservatives are attacking the man of the cloth and trying to divide the congregation. NOW I have seen it all.

Fair point - he had to make the speech because Hillary and the conservative pundits were hitting him petty hard on this. Passing on fourth and fifty is not so brave if you have no other choice. However he took the issue head on and did not go for the easy way out of saying I will never talk to this guy etc. Instead he spoke honestly about the concerns of both blacks and whites and did not try to gloss over the issues with generalities or feel good statements.
Leaving your church I think is a pretty big step and what Obama said was he knows a lot about this guy and he has done a lot of good for his parish. I can not argue with that one way or another. I do know that As a Catholic I have serious disagreements about what the Church has done with respect to certain issues outside the realm of religion. However I have not left the church because I believe you can separate the religious dogma from the actions of the organized body. I am not sure yet if I would vote for Obama but i think today showed me a lot about his willingness to take on one of the difficult issues that is facing this country.
Last point is before you judge Obama harshly for his association with Rev. Wright how upset were you when President Bush and former President Reagan spoke and gave their support to Bob Jones University a school that makes inter-racial dating grounds for to be expelled?

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by mosholu

Fair point - he had to make the speech because Hillary and the conservative pundits were hitting him petty hard on this. Passing on fourth and fifty is not so brave if you have no other choice. However he took the issue head on and did not go for the easy way out of saying I will never talk to this guy etc. Instead he spoke honestly about the concerns of both blacks and whites and did not try to gloss over the issues with generalities or feel good statements.
Leaving your church I think is a pretty big step and what Obama said was he knows a lot about this guy and he has done a lot of good for his parish. I can not argue with that one way or another. I do know that As a Catholic I have serious disagreements about what the Church has done with respect to certain issues outside the realm of religion. However I have not left the church because I believe you can separate the religious dogma from the actions of the organized body. I am not sure yet if I would vote for Obama but i think today showed me a lot about his willingness to take on one of the difficult issues that is facing this country.
Last point is before you judge Obama harshly for his association with Rev. Wright how upset were you when President Bush and former President Reagan spoke and gave their support to Bob Jones University a school that makes inter-racial dating grounds for to be expelled?

I'll pull an Obama. I'll go back and do some research on all the good that Bob Jones did in his life. Once I find enough, I will then counter your valid point with Jones' prior acts of charity and compassion.

[RIJIMMY]

I was going to reply, but its not worth it.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I was going to reply, but its not worth it.

ditto

[stripersnipr]

Dont bother. I'm finding that many, many BOH fans could care less about his positions on anything. They just love the way he makes them all wet, giddy and giggly.

[spence]

Funny, I'm not that far from Bob Jones University as I write this

Fess up, you really know NOTHING about the man who you are proclaiming to despise. Hey, perhaps he is is a wacko on some topics, but the venom being spewed here is really alarming...as is the attack on free thought.

Tolerance doesn't have to equal agreement.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

I know nothing about David Duke, but when I hear KKK in a discusson about him, I know all I need to know.

[RIJIMMY]

so spence, not sure if its possible for you to answer yes or no -
back to my original point. Rev. Wright - racist? yes or no?

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

so spence, not sure if its possible for you to answer yes or no -
back to my original point. Rev. Wright - racist? yes or no?

From what I've seen and read of the man I'm not convinced he's a racist, though he certainly has made some racist statements. But judging a 30 years of service to the community through the lens of a 20 second video clip is a tragic event if you ask me.

-spence

[Nebe]

Spence you didnt get the memo did you? Americans are supposed to make major decisions on 20 second video clips these days. It helps them from doing any research, and most importantly it allows the media to steer the course of America to suit their agendas, which is to protect the agendas of the corporations that bay their bills through advertising.

[RIJIMMY]

Or, intelligent people can make their minds up when they hear:

US of KKK
No, God Damn the USA
Rich White People running everything

I can listen to his entire body of work over 10 years and these are the only points I will remember and judge him on.
Look at the firestorm against Imus ( an entertainer) for Nappy Headed Hos, from the media and black equal rights leaders (what a joke referring to Sharpton as that).
What i dont get at teh core of this is that you guys are entirely comfortable with double standards. Judge the actions of people based on the color of their skins is racist, black or white. But it seems like its only one way.

[spence]

I don't see any double standard here.

-spence

[EarnedStripes44]

It is not so much what is said, it is how it is said. Therefore....

While I am at odds with his more-than-colorful choice of words, I don't believe much of what he said about america's historical attitudes towards the socio-economic status of blacks is incorrect. And with respect to the "fiery" vituperation, we (meaning rational and reasonable individuals) have to keep things in context here, we have a black reverend speaking to his primarily black congregation on the Southside of Chicago, this is a relatively private function for people who for the most part live in one of the most poverty-stricken urban environs in America. We are talking about unemployment rates upwards of 50%, 365+ homicides a year and astronomical failures of a public school system. These people are mad and maybe, just maybe, rightfully so. Now I am not trying to guilt trip any of you, but the lack of awareness, or rather outright disdain for any freedom of expression of an american opining on his american experience is just an exercise that same old intolerant pathology. Just look at this rabid media coverage, WHY!!! Since when does someone have to be accountable for their pastor's sermon. Should catholic public officials in Boston be held to account for behaviour of a few catholic priest or Cardinal Law's conduct towards the matter. %$%$%$%$, last week, media photos were implying he was muslim.

I tutored elementary physics and mathematics for innercity kids in Atlanta. Up until 3rd grade, those kids, they dont have a care in the world, they are eager to learn and enjoy that you are there; bright eyed and bushy-taled. By 5th grade, that same enjoyment, its gone...they are angry and disillusioned. Some of them, are even hardened felons in training. Some phenomena of hopelessness is failing these kids and it could be the parents. It could help however, if these kids could see some opportunity in their neighborhoods, opportunities other than penitentiary chances. Its a tough cycle to break courtesy of years of slavery and institutionalized racism.

There is no question about it, blacks live in a world that white are just unfamiliar with. And those blacks that make it out of that trap have live in two worlds.

[EarnedStripes44]

What also keep in mind, his emphasis on "rich white people". There is not enough bread to keep everyone's stomach full. It kills me how poor whites and poor blacks are pitted against each other (remember Charleston mid 1970s).

[spence]

Well said Stripes

-spence

[Bill L]

I have heard more than a few clips to form my opinion. The worst is his speech after 9-11 with his "americas chickens have come home to roost" statement. Pathetic.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by toonoc

I have heard more than a few clips to form my opinion. The worst is his speech after 9-11 with his "americas chickens have come home to roost" statement. Pathetic.

pathetc but somewhat true.

[spence]

Originally Posted by toonoc

I have heard more than a few clips to form my opinion. The worst is his speech after 9-11 with his "americas chickens have come home to roost" statement. Pathetic.

Ok, please then explain what you think the Rev. Wright meant by that statement, because I happen to think it was perfectly appropriate, although perhaps not what you'd like to rather hear.

-spence

[Bill L]

I'm not going to explain what I "think" he meant, I already said I have heard enough. Done deal. Did anybody ask Michael Richards what he was thinking or what he "meant"? Double standard big time. He doesn't deserve a pass because he's a man of cloth or whatever you want to call him. He's a racist, end of story, but you all will handle him with your kid gloves for some reason.

[spence]

Originally Posted by toonoc

I'm not going to explain what I "think" he meant, I already said I have heard enough. Done deal. Did anybody ask Michael Richards what he was thinking or what he "meant"? Double standard big time. He doesn't deserve a pass because he's a man of cloth or whatever you want to call him. He's a racist, end of story, but you all will handle him with your kid gloves for some reason.

So you really have no idea what he was talking about, do you?

-spence