Government use of force

[wdmso]

Seems the government doesn't fair well after it uses force on citizens.

From the bonus army On July 28, U.S. Attorney General William D. Mitchell ordered the veterans removed from all government property. Washington police met with resistance, shot at the protestors, and two veterans were wounded and later died. President Herbert Hoover then ordered the U.S. Army to clear the marchers' campsite. Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur commanded a contingent of infantry and cavalry, supported by six tanks. The Bonus Army marchers with their wives and children were driven out, and their shelters and belongings burned.

The move bombing. Monday, May 13, 1985, nearly five hundred police officers, along with city manager Leo Brooks, arrived in force and attempted to clear the building and execute the arrest warrants.[15][32] Nearby houses were evacuated.[3] Water and electricity were shut off in order to force MOVE members out of the house. Commissioner Sambor read a long speech addressed to MOVE members that started with, "Attention MOVE: This is America. You have to abide by the laws of the United States." When the MOVE members did not respond, the police decided to forcibly remove the 13 members from the house,[15] which consisted of eight adults and five children.

There was an armed standoff with police,[6] who lobbed tear gas canisters at the building. A 90-minute gunfight ensued, in which one officer was bruised in the back by gunfire.[33] Police used more than ten thousand rounds of ammunition before Commissioner Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed.[33] From a Pennsylvania State Police helicopter, Philadelphia Police Department Lt. Frank Powell proceeded to drop two one-pound bombs (which the police referred to as "entry devices"[32]) made of FBI-supplied Tovex, a dynamite substitute, targeting a fortified, bunker-like cubicle on the roof of the house.[30]

The resulting explosions ignited a fire from fuel for a gasoline-powered generator stored in the rooftop bunker,[11] killing eleven of the people in the house (John Africa, five other adults, and five children aged 7 to 13). The fire spread and eventually destroyed approximately sixty-five nearby houses.


The Waco siege ruby ridge and the Bundys ranch and Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Which is funny seeing conservatives tend to use these as examples of government over reach yet dont see Trumps action in Portland and his threat to do the same in other liberal cities as anything resembling those action ,, they see it as acceptable

As long as Trump keeps using federal power to allow them to discriminate under the guise of religious freedom or keeps low income housing were it belongs in city's or dismantling government norms or leave their guns alone his supporters will turn a blind eye wishing to return the country to a time that never existed.. except in their imagination.. because they think their way of life is in danger ... it is but by their own hands and they can't even see it happening

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Seems the government doesn't fair well after it uses force on citizens.

From the bonus army On July 28, U.S. Attorney General William D. Mitchell ordered the veterans removed from all government property. Washington police met with resistance, shot at the protestors, and two veterans were wounded and later died. President Herbert Hoover then ordered the U.S. Army to clear the marchers' campsite. Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur commanded a contingent of infantry and cavalry, supported by six tanks. The Bonus Army marchers with their wives and children were driven out, and their shelters and belongings burned.

The move bombing. Monday, May 13, 1985, nearly five hundred police officers, along with city manager Leo Brooks, arrived in force and attempted to clear the building and execute the arrest warrants.[15][32] Nearby houses were evacuated.[3] Water and electricity were shut off in order to force MOVE members out of the house. Commissioner Sambor read a long speech addressed to MOVE members that started with, "Attention MOVE: This is America. You have to abide by the laws of the United States." When the MOVE members did not respond, the police decided to forcibly remove the 13 members from the house,[15] which consisted of eight adults and five children.

There was an armed standoff with police,[6] who lobbed tear gas canisters at the building. A 90-minute gunfight ensued, in which one officer was bruised in the back by gunfire.[33] Police used more than ten thousand rounds of ammunition before Commissioner Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed.[33] From a Pennsylvania State Police helicopter, Philadelphia Police Department Lt. Frank Powell proceeded to drop two one-pound bombs (which the police referred to as "entry devices"[32]) made of FBI-supplied Tovex, a dynamite substitute, targeting a fortified, bunker-like cubicle on the roof of the house.[30]

The resulting explosions ignited a fire from fuel for a gasoline-powered generator stored in the rooftop bunker,[11] killing eleven of the people in the house (John Africa, five other adults, and five children aged 7 to 13). The fire spread and eventually destroyed approximately sixty-five nearby houses.


The Waco siege ruby ridge and the Bundys ranch and Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Which is funny seeing conservatives tend to use these as examples of government over reach yet dont see Trumps action in Portland and his threat to do the same in other liberal cities as anything resembling those action ,, they see it as acceptable

As long as Trump keeps using federal power to allow them to discriminate under the guise of religious freedom or keeps low income housing were it belongs in city's or dismantling government norms or leave their guns alone his supporters will turn a blind eye wishing to return the country to a time that never existed.. except in their imagination.. because they think their way of life is in danger ... it is but by their own hands and they can't even see it happening

aren’t you an example if the government using force in its citizens? prison guard, right? you had weapons
you were allowed to use if you saw the need? seems to have worked out well for you. it’s only problematic when republicans do it?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

aren’t you an example if the government using force in its citizens? prison guard, right? you had weapons
you were allowed to use if you saw the need? seems to have worked out well for you. it’s only problematic when republicans do it?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Great comparison Jim!

[Pete F.]

Some people equate convicted criminals with citizens exercising their constitutional rights.
The same people are horrified about the use of force to arrest indicted citizens.
But it’s acceptable to beat and gas The Wall of Moms.
Tom Ridge, appointed by GW Bush to be America’s first Director of Homeland Security, blasts Trump’s use of federal agents in Portland, saying DHS was formed to protect us from another 9-11: “It was not established to be the president’s personal militia.”
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Some people equate convicted criminals with citizens exercising their constitutional rights.
The same people are horrified about the use of force to arrest indicted citizens.
But it’s acceptable to beat and gas The Wall of Moms.
Tom Ridge, appointed by GW Bush to be America’s first Director of Homeland Security, blasts Trump’s use of federal agents in Portland, saying DHS was formed to protect us from another 9-11: “It was not established to be the president’s personal militia.”
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Not just his personal militia but for blatantly political purposes. We are way off the deep end on this one and it's likely going to get worse.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Some people equate convicted criminals with citizens exercising their constitutional rights.
The same people are horrified about the use of force to arrest indicted citizens.
But it’s acceptable to beat and gas The Wall of Moms.
Tom Ridge, appointed by GW Bush to be America’s first Director of Homeland Security, blasts Trump’s use of federal agents in Portland, saying DHS was formed to protect us from another 9-11: “It was not established to be the president’s personal militia.”
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

ok. so when the citizens are illegally revolting, and the locals
can’t or won’t deal with it, what would you have the president do? nothing?

how
about the example of Ike and the Little Rock Nine? local
and state officials refused to allow schools
to segregate, so Eisenhower sent in 1,000 members of the 101st airborne. history has generally praised ike’s decision. you’re saying he should have let the racist continue to impose racism? because the locals couldn’t stop it.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Not just his personal militia but for blatantly political purposes. We are way off the deep end on this one and it's likely going to get worse.

so if local officials can’t stop the violence ( or are openly siding with the rioters), and the mob comes to your house, you don’t want federal help(.


so the feds can’t help, and you get arrested if you defend yourself.

you’re right (accidentally), we have gone off the deep
end. trump waited waaaay too long to use everything in his arsenal. people are dead. you don’t get that? there’s a reason for the Insurrection Act.

i’d like to see you open your doors to the mob, invite them
in for kale and apple martinis.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

Call in the Space Force
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[Pete F.]

Are you claiming that the Graffiti Gestapo is accomplishing anything more than escalating the conflict?

99% of Americans had no idea there even were protests in Portland before the Tweety administration's goons decided to start pulling protesters into unmarked cars and beating mothers.

It looks like he's now really doing well with suburban women.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Are you claiming that the Graffiti Gestapo is accomplishing anything more than escalating the conflict?

You're admitting there was conflict?

99% of Americans had no idea there even were protests in Portland before the Tweety administration's goons decided to start pulling protesters into unmarked cars and beating mothers.

Are you claiming that fake news was not covering what was going on until there was a chance to create a narrative about goons?

It looks like he's now really doing well with suburban women.

You're far left Guardian video is supposed to reflect America's suburban women? The suburban women in this neck of the woods better catch on to who they are supposed to be.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

aren’t you an example if the government using force in its citizens? prison guard, right? you had weapons
you were allowed to use if you saw the need? seems to have worked out well for you. it’s only problematic when republicans do it?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim Correctional officer are not armed 1st off 2nd force fell into 2 categories planned use of force where each member stated their name and position and was on film from the moment the inmate was informed that force and the use of chemical agent was authorized.. and impartical partys were used to avoid force if possible the 2nd was called spontaneous use of force ,, were Corrections officer need to break up a fight between inmates our defend themselves..

But please keep spewing BS about things you clearly have no idea about..

Comparing what I did to snatch and grab operations of Americans citizens detained with out cause speaks volumes you'll go to convince your self Trumps the leader American needs

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You're far left Guardian video is supposed to reflect America's suburban women? The suburban women in this neck of the woods better catch on to who they are supposed to be.

Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf tells Fox that they're "proactive arrest[ing] people" in Portland.
You must be proud
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Our president just announced a surge of federal forces.

Not to Iraq.

Not to Afghanistan.

To Chicago.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

America 1st

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

spewing BS

snatch and grab operations of Americans citizens detained with out cause

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Our president just announced a surge of federal forces.

Not to Iraq.

Not to Afghanistan.

To Chicago.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

and their shooting Avg have been the same in 16 17 18 and 19 but only now in 20202 election time its an issue....but the faithful are

[JohnR]

Can we trade some of the Antifa / Marxists that want Communism types from Portland and send them to Hong Kong? We'll take the HK people rioting for Freedom in trade?

Even swap, heck, I suggest we pay for the airfare.

Spence, I was watching Today show Tues morning, they were interviewing Lori Lightfoot. Lori called out the anarchist agitators injuring the CPD with fireworks and frozen water bottles. I've been trying to find the videos so I could show you but they do not exist. Weird, an entire news segment missing.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Spence, I was watching Today show Tues morning, they were interviewing Lori Lightfoot. Lori called out the anarchist agitators injuring the CPD with fireworks and frozen water bottles. I've been trying to find the videos so I could show you but they do not exist. Weird, an entire news segment missing.

Funny, I used the google and the story popped right up. Sounds like a small group of agitators hijacked a peaceful protest and many were rightly arrested. Perhaps we should drop in the 82nd and crack some skulls. I'm sure the highways are unsafe for even armored travel.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Funny, I used the google and the story popped right up. Sounds like a small group of agitators hijacked a peaceful protest and many were rightly arrested. Perhaps we should drop in the 82nd and crack some skulls. I'm sure the highways are unsafe for even armored travel.

The highways just may be blocked with more peaceful protesters. So there is that.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Can we trade some of the Antifa / Marxists that want Communism types from Portland and send them to Hong Kong? We'll take the HK people rioting for Freedom in trade?

Even swap, heck, I suggest we pay for the airfare.

Spence, I was watching Today show Tues morning, they were interviewing Lori Lightfoot. Lori called out the anarchist agitators injuring the CPD with fireworks and frozen water bottles. I've been trying to find the videos so I could show you but they do not exist. Weird, an entire news segment missing.

Why would this be news to Jeff when he is so focused on the real story. The passionate Moms group holding signs without rightful attention.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf tells Fox that they're "proactive arrest[ing] people" in Portland.
You must be proud

Acting Secretary Wolf defended the tactic of proactively arresting demonstrators that are attacking federal police officers and federal property.

"Anytime that you attack a federal facility such as a courthouse in Portland that is a federal crime," Wolf said. "Attacking federal police officers -- law enforcement officers -- which they have done for 52 nights in a row is a federal crime. So, the Department [of Homeland Security], because we don't have that local support, that local law enforcement support, we are having to go out and proactively arrest individuals and we need to do that because we need to hold them accountable."


"This idea that they can attack federal property and law enforcement officers and go to the other side of the street and say you can't touch me is ridiculous," Wolf continued. "We don't do that in any other type of law enforcement. We pursue a criminal, we investigate, we pull them over if we have probable cause. We arrest them, we charge them, and we prosecute them. And you need to hold individuals accountable and when we don't do that I think we get what we see in Portland today."

What Wolf said sounds reasonable to me. What's your problem with it?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Acting Secretary Wolf defended the tactic of proactively arresting demonstrators that are attacking federal police officers and federal property.

"Anytime that you attack a federal facility such as a courthouse in Portland that is a federal crime," Wolf said. "Attacking federal police officers -- law enforcement officers -- which they have done for 52 nights in a row is a federal crime. So, the Department [of Homeland Security], because we don't have that local support, that local law enforcement support, we are having to go out and proactively arrest individuals and we need to do that because we need to hold them accountable."


"This idea that they can attack federal property and law enforcement officers and go to the other side of the street and say you can't touch me is ridiculous," Wolf continued. "We don't do that in any other type of law enforcement. We pursue a criminal, we investigate, we pull them over if we have probable cause. We arrest them, we charge them, and we prosecute them. And you need to hold individuals accountable and when we don't do that I think we get what we see in Portland today."

What Wolf said sounds reasonable to me. What's your problem with it?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Your video is a non sequitur.