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Old 07-17-2018, 06:35 PM   #31
detbuch
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RESPECT!
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Trump had respect?
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:42 PM   #32
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be gentle...they are teetering on the edge of sanity....

"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad."

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Old 07-17-2018, 06:51 PM   #33
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Trust in our democracy.

We have a democracy?

Confidence in our political process.

Who has confidence in our political process? How did Trump damage our political process at the summit? Hasn't confidence in our political process been degraded over time by costly, ill conceived or unnecessary wars, judicial debasement of the Constitution, media hype-exaggeration-lies, ugly and fallacious party bickering and accusations? Unsustainable national debt? What did Trump do at the summit that destroyed your confidence in our political process?

Emboldening our adversaries. We gave up a lot with nothing in return.
Our adversaries were not emboldened before the summit? Do you, or they, believe that, because of the summit, they can attack us any more than they did before the summit?

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Old 07-18-2018, 06:28 AM   #34
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Trump had respect?
Thank you for confirming
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:58 AM   #35
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Trust in our democracy. Confidence in our political process. Emboldening our adversaries. We gave up a lot with nothing in return.
Yes - been many years of that now

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Wow, Ralph Peters ranting on MSNBC...case closed.
Wait, I though Ralph was a crackpot last Admin.

(BTW, Ralph Peters is cool Old School Cold Warrior so by default most lefties would hate him)

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Old 07-18-2018, 07:49 AM   #36
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What did Trump give up?
He must have got something for nothing

“Well, I think we’re really doing well with Russia as of today,” Trump said. “I thought we were doing horrible before today. Really, I mean horribly. Dangerously.”

“It was that big? It was that dramatic today?” Hannity asked.

“Oh, I thought it was great today,” Trump said. “But I thought it was really bad five hours ago.”
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:15 AM   #37
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Thank you for confirming
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Thank you for admitting that he did not give up something at the summit that he didn't have from you in the first place. Can't give away what you don't have. Oh, BTW, you won.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:17 AM   #38
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He must have got something for nothing

“Well, I think we’re really doing well with Russia as of today,” Trump said. “I thought we were doing horrible before today. Really, I mean horribly. Dangerously.”

“It was that big? It was that dramatic today?” Hannity asked.

“Oh, I thought it was great today,” Trump said. “But I thought it was really bad five hours ago.”
Show time. Politics is the grand circus of illusory optics.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:52 AM   #39
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Well, if nothing else the Russian hacking did expose the widespread corruption inside the Democratic party to get Clinton nominated.
This should be the real turning point.

I'm not condoning the hacking - but we also shouldn't ignore that fact just because it was illegally done by a foreign entity.

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Old 07-18-2018, 10:13 AM   #40
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Wait, I though Ralph was a crackpot last Admin.

(BTW, Ralph Peters is cool Old School Cold Warrior so by default most lefties would hate him)
At least he's seen the light with his disdain for FOX News and the Trump administration.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:14 PM   #41
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Now Trump is contradicting his own Intel Chief stating that Russia is no longer targeting the US.

Can anyone rationalize this aside from the idea that our President is beholden to Putin?
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Old 07-18-2018, 02:57 PM   #42
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Thank you for admitting that he did not give up something at the summit that he didn't have from you in the first place. Can't give away what you don't have. Oh, BTW, you won.
I guess I needed to spell it out with larger letters, respect from the free world, from our allies, from his peers; I'm pretty sure it's a long list of people who might have been on the fence about Trump who just lost all respect for the leader of the free world.
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Old 07-18-2018, 03:11 PM   #43
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.

Can anyone rationalize this aside from the idea that our President is beholden to Putin?
it's brilliant strategy that you are not smart enough to understand...don't worry...he's got this...
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Old 07-18-2018, 03:11 PM   #44
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I guess I needed to spell it out with larger letters, respect from the free world, from our allies, from his peers; I'm pretty sure it's a long list of people who might have been on the fence about Trump who just lost all respect for the leader of the free world.
they don’t need to respect Trump, they need to respect the US, and i believe they still do. i am confident our adversaries thought obama was a pushover, and we survived just fine. in fact we did pretty darn well in his two terms.
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Old 07-18-2018, 03:31 PM   #45
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they don’t need to respect Trump, they need to respect the US, and i believe they still do. i am confident our adversaries thought obama was a pushover, and we survived just fine. in fact we did pretty darn well in his two terms.
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Putin I'm sure feels emboldened after his stroking by his bud Donald and since O did little to stop Russia from expanding their influence; I'm not sure I'd want to be living in a country next door to Russia at this point in time. Trump gave Putin exactly what he wanted at this summit and that in light of the evidence of Russian interference and if you believe (and I do) Russians continued efforts to influence our democracy, is IMHO just the opposite of what should have been happening.
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Old 07-18-2018, 03:32 PM   #46
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Putin I'm sure feels emboldened .
when has he not?
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Old 07-18-2018, 03:46 PM   #47
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; I'm not sure I'd want to be living in a country next door to Russia at this point in time. .
Agreed.

Anyone who thought it was hilarious when Obama mocked Romney for saying Russia was a threat, has exactly zero right to be bitching about Putin's rise. Zero right. We chose to elect a guy who thought it was funny to believe Russia was a concern. SO this is the result. Guess what? When you plant potatoes, you get potatoes?

I also remember when Obama was caught on mike telling a Putin lackey, something to the effect of "this is my last election, after it's behind me, I'll have more flexibility in dealing with Russia." Which I took to mean as , "once I'm no longer accountable to the American people, I'll be able to play ball". How else can that be interpreted? But Spence said not to worry...
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Old 07-18-2018, 03:56 PM   #48
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I just with the Dems had been more concerned about Russia before the past couple years. I wish the same of Western Europe - that they would be more concerned. RUS broke its economy the past 6-7 years rebuilding its mil and capabilities.

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I'm not sure I'd want to be living in a country next door to Russia at this point in time.
Ahhh, but Russia is a peaceful country surrounded by ceasefires.

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Agreed.

Anyone who thought it was hilarious when Obama mocked Romney for saying Russia was a threat, has exactly zero right to be bitching about Putin's rise. Zero right. We chose to elect a guy who thought it was funny to believe Russia was a concern. SO this is the result. Guess what? When you plant potatoes, you get potatoes?

I also remember when Obama was caught on mike telling a Putin lackey, something to the effect of "this is my last election, after it's behind me, I'll have more flexibility in dealing with Russia." Which I took to mean as , "once I'm no longer accountable to the American people, I'll be able to play ball". How else can that be interpreted? But Spence said not to worry...
They Lackey was Medvedev, the at the time RUS President and Vlad's placeholder until he re-rigged their constitution.

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Old 07-18-2018, 05:43 PM   #49
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I guess I needed to spell it out with larger letters, respect from the free world, from our allies, from his peers; I'm pretty sure it's a long list of people who might have been on the fence about Trump who just lost all respect for the leader of the free world.
No, you didn't need to use large letters. I disagree with you. I don't think that "the free world" (as I envision what you mean by that phrase) respects America as a country, as a people, as a philosophy of how to live or how to govern. They have some respect for our power, especially insofar as that power is wielded to protect them. Otherwise, the Progressive elites (the ones that our Progressive Press hold as the true representatives of that outer "free world") hold us in various degrees of contempt. And they, as well as our own American elites, have no respect for Trump to lose.

Toadying up to those elites does not garner us respect from them, it just makes them more comfortable with, and more tolerant of, us. And oh, BTW, less nervous that our protection of them might waver.

In some ways, certainly economically, Trump is right that West Europeans are foes to us. We Americans are foes to each other, politically, economically, morally, philosophically. And I don't want our President to be "the leader of the free world." I don't even want our President to be the leader of the American People. I want us to be the leaders of our own lives.

So, I don't care about the notion that other countries or societies lose "respect" for us. Especially if we have to kiss their azz to get it.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:03 PM   #50
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I agree with you on that respect, that other nations in NATO and for their own benifit, must contribute their fair share. To kiss the arse golden ring, or lick the boots of a known brutal man and leader; well beam me up Scotty there must be sanity in the universe.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:24 PM   #51
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I agree with you on that respect, that other nations in NATO and for their own benifit, must contribute their fair share. To kiss the arse golden ring, or lick the boots of a known brutal man and leader; well beam me up Scotty there must be sanity in the universe.
I don't think Trump would lick Putin's boots, nor that he has. He has said some nice things about Putin, as he has about leaders of the so called free world. He is trying to negotiate various agreements with them all. Sometimes different buttons have to be pushed with the same or different people in order to get the desired results.

If, going in, the only way to get results is to threaten, disparage, insult, or actually go to war, then Trump got off on the wrong foot with Putin. But that can change, if necessary. And if war is necessary, what will those who claimed and complained that Trump would get us into a war say about that?
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:30 PM   #52
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So what ae the desired results from an X super power, with little to offer us and if it’s obtained via cyber meddling or some sort of dirt; does that not raise concerns?
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:00 PM   #53
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Can't make this stuff up...

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ng-us-citizens
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:52 PM   #54
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Official White House transcripts of the press conference conveniently overlooked the part where Putin said he was hoping Trump would win the election
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:53 PM   #55
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So what ae the desired results from an X super power, with little to offer us and if it’s obtained via cyber meddling or some sort of dirt; does that not raise concerns?
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I'm not getting it. When it comes to negotiating with Putin, he supposedly has nothing worth our while to offer us. On the other hand, he supposedly has this enormous power to meddle in our affairs and somehow destroy our so-called democracy. (We don't actually have a democracy, and for good reason . . .although, there ARE those who understand how democracies can easily be tools of authoritarian regimes and want to convert us to one. That conversion can psychologically be implanted in our minds by constantly referring to "our democracy.")

I dunno . . . what did China have to offer us when Nixon negotiated with it. It was geopolitically less powerful then than Russia is now. Now, Russia, China, and other nations in both hemispheres are joining each other in an economic relationship whose objective is to replace the US as the hegemonic world economic and military power, and to replace the dollar as the reserve currency.

Is there some possibility to change the direction of that movement? Is there a way, peacefully, over time, to draw all nations into a worldwide economic and cultural competition and/or cooperation that benefits everybody? Does Western Europe's disinclination to powerfully arm itself open the door to Russian and Eastern powers to threaten it and thus embolden those powers to destroy and dominate rather than come to the table and create a diverse worldwide community of friendly competitors?

I don't know what's in Trump's mind. And I don't understand how so many anti-Trumpers absolutely claim to know what he thinks or why he says and does what he does. He's done some good things. Maybe there's more to come. I'm not all hyperbolic about him destroying Western Civilization, nor this country.

He claims to be a negotiator. Negotiators operate differently than adversaries or warmongers. Maybe you're right that he'll eff everything up. I don't think he even has the power to do so. I prefer to wait until Trump actually does something rather than bitch about what I "know" he'll do.

And what has been going on up till now ain't all that good . . . at least it appears few think it is if all the screeching from all directions means anything. It has the appearance of OK to some, but others see a worldwide rise in national debts and the direction unabatedly continuing that way. And there are all the degradations of long standing social norms that have no definition or basic meaning . . . or the political animosities . . . or the ever-present potential for war. . . yada yada yada, you know the drill.

Hey, to rephrase a Beatles' mantra, "give Trump a chance." OK, OK, I realize y'all can't do that . . . y'all continue on with your nice hyperventilation. I'll step aside as the ignorant dummie while y'all really good experts and wizard fortune tellers tell us what's really going on.

Hey, you win again. Maybe, like Trump said, you'll get tired of winning.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:22 AM   #56
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President Donald Trump will consider allowing Russian investigators to question U.S.-born investor Bill Browder, former U.S. ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul and others after President Vladimir Putin floated the idea, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Wednesday.

“He said it was an interesting idea. He didn’t commit to anything,” Sanders said at the daily press briefing. “He wants to work with his team and determine if there’s any validity that would be helpful to the process…It was an idea they threw out.”


Later in the day, State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert called the concept "absolutely absurd."


Appears the Head is losing contact with the rest of the body ...

But again Conservatives are silent on this Suggestion...

I guess because he was Obama's ambassador Michael McFaul.... and U.S.-born investor Bill Browder (english citizen ) over Clinton mystery money
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:37 AM   #57
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President Donald Trump will consider allowing Russian investigators to question U.S.-born investor Bill Browder, former U.S. ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul and others after President Vladimir Putin floated the idea, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Wednesday.

“He said it was an interesting idea. He didn’t commit to anything,” Sanders said at the daily press briefing. “He wants to work with his team and determine if there’s any validity that would be helpful to the process…It was an idea they threw out.”


Later in the day, State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert called the concept "absolutely absurd."


Appears the Head is losing contact with the rest of the body ...

But again Conservatives are silent on this Suggestion...

I guess because he was Obama's ambassador Michael McFaul.... and U.S.-born investor Bill Browder (english citizen ) over Clinton mystery money
Trump "considers" a lot of things out loud. But does not follow up on the considerations. Declared considerations of a negotiator are often veiled threats in order to steer things in a favorable direction. Mueller indicts some more Russians which may be a stated "consideration" to influence media hype. I don't believe he can extradite those Russians or interview them in Russia if Russia says no. Perhaps Putin's suggestion that he can interrogate Browder and McFaul are like, "Oh yeah . . . you want to interrogate some Russians--OK then, let us interrogate some Americans." Neither of which is likely to happen. Political optics BS.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:34 AM   #58
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I'm not getting it. When it comes to negotiating with Putin, he supposedly has nothing worth our while to offer us. On the other hand, he supposedly has this enormous power to meddle in our affairs and somehow destroy our so-called democracy. (We don't actually have a democracy, and for good reason . . .although, there ARE those who understand how democracies can easily be tools of authoritarian regimes and want to convert us to one. That conversion can psychologically be implanted in our minds by constantly referring to "our democracy.")

I dunno . . . what did China have to offer us when Nixon negotiated with it. It was geopolitically less powerful then than Russia is now. Now, Russia, China, and other nations in both hemispheres are joining each other in an economic relationship whose objective is to replace the US as the hegemonic world economic and military power, and to replace the dollar as the reserve currency.

Is there some possibility to change the direction of that movement? Is there a way, peacefully, over time, to draw all nations into a worldwide economic and cultural competition and/or cooperation that benefits everybody? Does Western Europe's disinclination to powerfully arm itself open the door to Russian and Eastern powers to threaten it and thus embolden those powers to destroy and dominate rather than come to the table and create a diverse worldwide community of friendly competitors?

I don't know what's in Trump's mind. And I don't understand how so many anti-Trumpers absolutely claim to know what he thinks or why he says and does what he does. He's done some good things. Maybe there's more to come. I'm not all hyperbolic about him destroying Western Civilization, nor this country.

He claims to be a negotiator. Negotiators operate differently than adversaries or warmongers. Maybe you're right that he'll eff everything up. I don't think he even has the power to do so. I prefer to wait until Trump actually does something rather than bitch about what I "know" he'll do.

And what has been going on up till now ain't all that good . . . at least it appears few think it is if all the screeching from all directions means anything. It has the appearance of OK to some, but others see a worldwide rise in national debts and the direction unabatedly continuing that way. And there are all the degradations of long standing social norms that have no definition or basic meaning . . . or the political animosities . . . or the ever-present potential for war. . . yada yada yada, you know the drill.

Hey, to rephrase a Beatles' mantra, "give Trump a chance." OK, OK, I realize y'all can't do that . . . y'all continue on with your nice hyperventilation. I'll step aside as the ignorant dummie while y'all really good experts and wizard fortune tellers tell us what's really going on.

Hey, you win again. Maybe, like Trump said, you'll get tired of winning.
Said it many times, I don't want Trump to fail. While I despise the man, his constant lies and miss truths and most especially his disrespectful treatment of most anyone who even hints they aren't in agreement; I keep hoping he would finally put his phone down and just thicken up the skin and do the job you were elected to do. The usual comeback to my statement above if also getting so fing old; what about Hillary, what about Obama, what about Bill.

In the very long run, I think eventually we need Russia, China, NK; I personally would hope this world isn't going to keep moving on the way it is with everyone looking out for just their own interest and boarders? I'm pretty sure Putin isn't ready to sit down and play nice in the global sand box and neither is NK; China however is moving itself forward better then anyone probably gives them credit for.

Putin and Trump are so similar in their need to be seen in a certain light, the summit was like watching a mutual admiration society meeting.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:49 AM   #59
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Here is an opinion of Trumps effect on The Worlds economy
We are part of it
https://www.theguardian.com/business...e_iOSApp_Other
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:23 AM   #60
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Said it many times, I don't want Trump to fail. While I despise the man, his constant lies and miss truths and most especially his disrespectful treatment of most anyone who even hints they aren't in agreement; I keep hoping he would finally put his phone down and just thicken up the skin and do the job you were elected to do. The usual comeback to my statement above if also getting so fing old; what about Hillary, what about Obama, what about Bill.

In the very long run, I think eventually we need Russia, China, NK; I personally would hope this world isn't going to keep moving on the way it is with everyone looking out for just their own interest and boarders? I'm pretty sure Putin isn't ready to sit down and play nice in the global sand box and neither is NK; China however is moving itself forward better then anyone probably gives them credit for.

Putin and Trump are so similar in their need to be seen in a certain light, the summit was like watching a mutual admiration society meeting.
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