Charlottesville

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Good couple of posts and Boss as always, you are the voice of reason.

Thank you , I think

Originally Posted by scottw

I suspect the real nazis would be pretty depressed seeing their movement now represented by a bunch of toothless goobers playing dress up on occasion...

do we know who is in charge?

Yes. Their capabilities fortunately (hopefully) should stop long before Kristallnacht (so far)

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

This is all nonsense to me, the law protects Free Speech. If every time a group (any group) legally receives their permit to gather and protest, some other group shows up (without a permit) to shout over or start violence with the initial group, we are illegally preventing the initial groups free speech rights. I can't stand either group involved in this, but one attempted to protest the removal of the statue with a permit and the other one prevented them to lawfully protest. I would say the exact same thing if the situation was reversed. If it was Antifa and BLM with the permit to protest the statue and wanted it removed, and these Nazi groups showed up (without a permit) to shout them down then the law should protect the Antifa BLM people, just like in this case the police should have prevented the groups from interacting and prohibited the groups that were not holding permits from protesting.

^ This.

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

The media spins it out of control about racist this and racist that. It's simply a law, want to hold a parade or protest for anything, legally get a permit, and then nobody should stop you from legally holding your event. if you don't support their cause, stay away and ignore them. DONT GIVE THEM MORE ATTENTION THAN THEY DESERVE. all this did was make more racists on both sides angrier and more resolved.

When ratings meet commentary.

Oh, and is a Right, not a Law

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Oh, and is a Right, not a Law

I was in no way saying free speech wasnt a Right, but was referring to the city ordnance/law that allows for lawful demonstrations only when issued a permit by the city manager.

Sec. 28-29. - Street parades, processions, and other events.

No parade or procession of any kind shall be held or conducted in any city rights-of-way without first obtaining a permit from the city manager.

(Code 1976, § 25-25; 11-16-98(3); Ord. of 3-5-01(2))

Taken from Charlottesville city code. This city Law governs how the cities law enforcement should have protected the permitted parties Rights of free speech . If they would have enforced the law, and kept non permitted parties from the area, this would have blown over like a distant f-a-r-t in the wind. "On the news today, some crazy Nazzis waved flags and NOBODY cares".....

[JohnR]

Ahhh - gotcha

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I was in no way saying free speech wasnt a Right, but was referring to the city ordnance/law that allows for lawful demonstrations only when issued a permit by the city manager.

Sec. 28-29. - Street parades, processions, and other events.

No parade or procession of any kind shall be held or conducted in any city rights-of-way without first obtaining a permit from the city manager.

(Code 1976, § 25-25; 11-16-98(3); Ord. of 3-5-01(2))

Taken from Charlottesville city code. This city Law governs how the cities law enforcement should have protected the permitted parties Rights of free speech . If they would have enforced the law, and kept non permitted parties from the area, this would have blown over like a distant f-a-r-t in the wind. "On the news today, some crazy Nazzis waved flags and NOBODY cares".....

if these things need to be approved....I'm assuming they can also be denied? I believe a community has the right to refuse to have something like this occur in their yard....you can cite a host of reasons in denying the permit ...let them take it to court or find another place to make fools of themselves, I doubt they'd have the stomach or wherewithal to fight it and if they take their complaints to the media dressed in whacko drag....won't be much sympathy there either.....

[nightfighter]

Removing some of these statues is not the answer. If you rewrite your history you are bound to repeat it.... Just look at Europe as an example. The last generation to survive a world war is passing on, and leaving us with no examples to show the way.
As for the statues; they are of the leaders of the South, who are widely known to have LOST. SURRENDERED. Their way of life was beaten down, and with it, slavery was abolished. Lee was the top graduate in his class from West Point and served in US Army for 32 years before following his state in the succession. He deeply hoped for the union to continue, and was offered a senior command in the Union army.... But he is universally acknowledged as the military leader of the side that LOST. That is what he symbolizes, as do the other statues of those Confederate South leaders. Next we will be burning all copies of Gone With The Wind.... The symbolism of this is off the mark IMO.

Trump is not the answer.
Extremists are not the answer, but will always make themselves known for the wrong reasons.
Anything Nazi or Supremist is unacceptable. I will choose to focus on those two labels, but it goes across the board as far as intolerance.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Removing some of these statues is not the answer. If you rewrite your history you are bound to repeat it.... Just look at Europe as an example. The last generation to survive a world war is passing on, and leaving us with no examples to show the way.
As for the statues; they are of the leaders of the South, who are widely known to have LOST. SURRENDERED. Their way of life was beaten down, and with it, slavery was abolished. Lee was the top graduate in his class from West Point and served in US Army for 32 years before following his state in the succession. He deeply hoped for the union to continue, and was offered a senior command in the Union army.... But he is universally acknowledged as the military leader of the side that LOST. That is what he symbolizes, as do the other statues of those Confederate South leaders. Next we will be burning all copies of Gone With The Wind.... The symbolism of this is off the mark IMO.

Trump is not the answer.
Extremists are not the answer, but will always make themselves known for the wrong reasons.
Anything Nazi or Supremist is unacceptable. I will choose to focus on those two labels, but it goes across the board as far as intolerance.

I don't know that removing statues is re-writing history.

If there is a monument that is there just as an historical marker, that's fine. If the statue is a tribute to the man, that's something else. I was in Nashville last year, and saw a state of Robert E Lee. If the plaque said "Robert E Lee fought a battle here", I would have no problem with that. The plaque was an honor to the man, and the last line was something about thanking him "for the noble cause he dedicated to". Now, I can see where that is DEEPLY offensive to a lot of people. The noble cause, was the right to commit treason, for the sake of enslaving his fellow man. You can argue the cause was state's rights I guess.

I see the left side on this one. But I also figure if Condaleeza Rice is fine with leaving them up, then why should I care if it doesn't bother her, she has a bigger dog in this hunt then me...

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

In the case of the statue I saw blm protesting in SC a couple nights ago,it was erected before the civil war. It seems it was a tribute from the community which was paid for with privately raised money. It is Of a fellow named Calhoun who also has a park and a street named after him.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

John Calhoun was one of the generators of the conditions that helped lead SC to secede first from the nation. He died well before the collapse that came from his policies. Interesting and controversial figure

Originally Posted by wdmso

Trump pushes debunked 'pig's blood' myth, hours after Barcelona attack

Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!

another fail

Yep - absolutely stupid. This is why people should not believe memes on the Internet

Originally Posted by scottw

if these things need to be approved....I'm assuming they can also be denied? I believe a community has the right to refuse to have something like this occur in their yard....you can cite a host of reasons in denying the permit ...let them take it to court or find another place to make fools of themselves, I doubt they'd have the stomach or wherewithal to fight it and if they take their complaints to the media dressed in whacko drag....won't be much sympathy there either.....

Dunno. I don't want to see Neonazis marching anywhere but is is worth denying a Constitutional right? Maybe relegate them to a swampy area of the park ; )

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

John Calhoun was one of the generators of the conditions that helped lead SC to secede first from the nation. He died well before the collapse that came from his policies. Interesting and controversial figure




Yep - absolutely stupid. This is why people should not believe memes on the Internet




Dunno. I don't want to see Neonazis marching anywhere but is is worth denying a Constitutional right? Maybe relegate them to a swampy area of the park ; )

"Yep - absolutely stupid. This is why people should not believe memes on the Internet"

That's a statement worth criticizing him for, one of many. As opposed to "I condemn violence and bigotry..."

"I don't want to see Neonazis marching anywhere but is is worth denying a Constitutional right?"

In my opinion, the answer is no. We can't be selective about who the Bill Of Rights protects, and who it does not, as long as they are law abiding. But this is exactly what the left is trying to do with conservative speakers on college campuses. And you will never, not in a million years, see the ACLU fight for the right of Ann Coulter or Ben Shapiro to speak in public space at a public university. Never, ever, ever.