So, how about our brilliant middle eastern vetting process

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

We will see more of an uproar from the Muslums in this country over what Donald Trump has said, then we will see from them over the people that have been killed in the name of their religion.
We are seeing the same divisive approach by our president that he used against policeman in this country . Americans are now the bad people, and Muslims the victims .
By the way I think with Donald Trump said was idiotic .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"We will see more of an uproar from the Muslums in this country over what Donald Trump has said"

Tough crap. Their feelings are getting hurt, our people are getting murdered.

"I think with Donald Trump said was idiotic "

I don't know anymore, I just don't.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Tough crap. Their feelings are getting hurt, our people are getting murdered.

"I think with Donald Trump said was idiotic "

I don't know anymore, I just don't.

In other words, you agree with what he said.

Here's the rub, we can't control let alone defeat terrorism without Muslims at our side. Trump's remarks and your support for them are playing right into ISIS's recruiting strategy.

[afterhours]

[QUOTE=spence;1088181]

Here's the rub, we can't control let alone defeat terrorism without Muslims at our side.



i wish they were on our side, where is the outpouring of muslim condemnation and anger directed at isis? maybe it's just me but i haven't heard much more than a bit lip service - not the outrage that one would expect from this peaceful religion.

[detbuch]

[QUOTE=afterhours;1088186]

Originally Posted by spence

Here's the rub, we can't control let alone defeat terrorism without Muslims at our side.



i wish they were on our side, where is the outpouring of muslim condemnation and anger directed at isis? maybe it's just me but i haven't heard much more than a bit lip service - not the outrage that one would expect from this peaceful religion.

It would be comforting if the so-called vast majority of moderate Muslims were called upon by their leaders to a jihad against the terrorists of whom it is said are blaspheming their faith. It shouldn't take long for that vast majority to absolutely crush those who are trying to destroy their faith. After all, the rest of the world wouldn't interfere--would even help them.

But, It seems that loud impressive sounding "condemnations" are proclaimed, which, I guess ,is supposed to be enough. I'm wondering what they are condemning them to.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Here's the rub, we can't control let alone defeat terrorism without Muslims at our side. Trump's remarks and your support for them are playing right into ISIS's recruiting strategy.

What would happen to ISIS's recruiting strategy if ISIS was destroyed?

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

What would happen to ISIS's recruiting strategy if ISIS was destroyed?

Brilliant! Somebody should relay this to the President.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

In other words, you agree with what he said.

Here's the rub, we can't control let alone defeat terrorism without Muslims at our side. Trump's remarks and your support for them are playing right into ISIS's recruiting strategy.

"In other words, you agree with what he said.
"

Here's all anyone here needs to now about you and politics. Hilary said she came under sniper fire in Bosnia. You will not say that she lied. I say "I don't know" what to think about Trump, and you know for certain what my intentions are. Have fun explaining that.

I don't know what to think. I do know that I can no longer take a president who, when he sees images of huge piles of dead westerners, thinks the true victims are the muslims that might get taunted, and who thinks the underlying issues are gun control and/or climate change. He is a world-class horse's azz.

"Here's the rub, we can't control let alone defeat terrorism without Muslims at our side"

Here's the other rub. If "Muslims" aren't on our side now, what the f*ck are they waiting for? Who helped the Muslims in Afghanistan fight the invading Soviets? Who helped feed starving Muslims in Somalia? Who freed Muslims in Kuwait? In Afghanistan? In Iraq? The male shooter in California, what country gave him a good middle class job, at a company that threw him and his c*nt wife a baby shower last year?

This religion is based on Mohammed, who was a bloodthirsty, murderous, barbaric thief, someone the Japanese of WWII could really relate to. That's historical fact. He was the exact opposite of Jesus. Not surprising that the religion based on his life, might accurately be described as "satanic." Is there a Muslim country, on the planet at this time, that is at peace within its borders, and with its neighbors? How many Muslim countries are not committed to the destruction of Israel? How many religions stone their women, and mutilate their genitalia?

"Trump's remarks and your support for them are playing right into ISIS's recruiting strategy"

And if you hero listened to any number of military experts who begged him not to withdraw from Iraq, we would not be talking about ISIS today.

All this horebleep about "this plays into their hands". How has being open and hospitable working out, Spence? How has Obama's strategy of appeasement working so far? You tell us!

I don't like Trump. His remarks on Islam are not as idiotic to me, as they would have been last year. Especially compared to the strategy embraced by maybe the only person less up to the task of solving this problem, which is Obama. Maybe that's why I am willing to listen to Trump, because compared to Obama, he doesn't sound so un-hinged anymore.

If the issue is Muslim terrorism, and one guy wants to kick all Muslims out of the country, and the other guy's solution is to get me to drive an electric car, the first guy doesn't seem so stupid all of a sudden.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"In other words, you agree with what he said.
"

Here's all anyone here needs to now about you and politics. Hilary said she came under sniper fire in Bosnia. You will not say that she lied. I say "I don't know" what to think about Trump, and you know for certain what my intentions are. Have fun explaining that.

I don't know what to think. I do know that I can no longer take a president who, when he sees images of huge piles of dead westerners, thinks the true victims are the muslims that might get taunted, and who thinks the underlying issues are gun control and/or climate change. He is a world-class horse's azz.

"Here's the rub, we can't control let alone defeat terrorism without Muslims at our side"

Here's the other rub. If "Muslims" aren't on our side now, what the f*ck are they waiting for? Who helped the Muslims in Afghanistan fight the invading Soviets? Who helped feed starving Muslims in Somalia? Who freed Muslims in Kuwait? In Afghanistan? In Iraq? The male shooter in California, what country gave him a good middle class job, at a company that threw him and his c*nt wife a baby shower last year?

This religion is based on Mohammed, who was a bloodthirsty, murderous, barbaric thief, someone the Japanese of WWII could really relate to. That's historical fact. He was the exact opposite of Jesus. Not surprising that the religion based on his life, might accurately be described as "satanic." Is there a Muslim country, on the planet at this time, that is at peace within its borders, and with its neighbors? How many Muslim countries are not committed to the destruction of Israel? How many religions stone their women, and mutilate their genitalia?

"Trump's remarks and your support for them are playing right into ISIS's recruiting strategy"

And if you hero listened to any number of military experts who begged him not to withdraw from Iraq, we would not be talking about ISIS today.

All this horebleep about "this plays into their hands". How has being open and hospitable working out, Spence? How has Obama's strategy of appeasement working so far? You tell us!

I don't like Trump. His remarks on Islam are not as idiotic to me, as they would have been last year. Especially compared to the strategy embraced by maybe the only person less up to the task of solving this problem, which is Obama. Maybe that's why I am willing to listen to Trump, because compared to Obama, he doesn't sound so un-hinged anymore.

If the issue is Muslim terrorism, and one guy wants to kick all Muslims out of the country, and the other guy's solution is to get me to drive an electric car, the first guy doesn't seem so stupid all of a sudden.

Brutally honest ....Great post
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[Nebe]

Anyone notice that the 'message' has been that background checks don't work when you want a buy a gun, and ironically that the background checks will work just fine for the migrants???

just an observation

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Anyone notice that the 'message' has been that background checks don't work when you want a buy a gun, and ironically that the background checks will work just fine for the migrants???

just an observation

I know... right???

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by scottw

I know... right???

Hahaha! And there it is
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Despite the prevailing stereotypes of Muslim Americans, Islam has contributed a great deal to the U.S. In fact, Muslims have played an integral part in defending the homeland and fighting for the American government’s geopolitical interests. The history of Muslim Americans serving in the U.S. military challenges the widespread skepticism that Americans have for those who follow Islam. Muslims are asked by Prophet Muhammad to “love your country as [patriotism] is part of Islam.” The Qur’an (4:60) calls on Muslims to be obedient to their governments: “O you who believe, obey God and the Prophet and obey those in authority from among you.” As I discuss in this piece, Muslims have heeded the Prophet’s call for allegiance and shown love for America.

Muslims served in the U.S. military under the command of General George Washington, who was Commander in Chief of the Continental Army during the American War for Independence. Rosters of soldiers serving in Washington’s Army lists names like Bampett Muhammad, who fought for the Virginia Line between the years 1775 and 1783. Another Again it seems many love to focus on the minority not the majority ...

one of Washington’s soldiers, Yusuf Ben Ali, was a North African Arab who worked as an aide to General Thomas Sumter of South Carolina. Peter Buckminster, who fought in Boston, is perhaps Washington’s most distinguished Muslim American soldier. Buckminster fired the gun that killed British Major General John Pitcairn at the Battle of Bunker Hill. Years after this famous battle, Peter changed his last name to “Salaam,” the Arabic word meaning “peace.” Peter Salaam later reenlisted in the Continental Army to serve in the Battle of Saratoga and the Battle of Stony Point. If Washington had a problem with Muslims serving in his Army, he would not have allowed Muhammad, Ali and Salaam to represent and serve non-Muslim Americans. By giving these Muslims the honor of serving America, Washington made it clear that a person did not have to be of a certain religion or have a particular ethnic background to be an American patriot.

And these Contributions to America are still happening to this day from all walks of life.. step back from the emoting and Fear and look at the big picture..

I dont understand killings in the name of Islam is some how different from Killings blamed on MH issues or Racial motivated Mass Murder .. when the latter happens far more frequently Here in the US .. they are all unacceptable ... And we all have far less control over theses events then we'll acknowledge

[Nebe]

The US government does not want to solve problems. They want to create more problems so we are further dependant on the system
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The US government does not want to solve problems. They want to create more problems so we are further dependant on the system
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Said the guy who supports, wait for it, Bernie Sanders. Because Bernie the socialist will reduce dependency on the system?

[Nebe]

I didn't say I was against it
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[Nebe]

Or at least, I didn't say I am against Bernies agenda.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Very well put. This is totally the back swing of the pendulum.
The thing is.. There is no way that trump will be elected. That is unless the dumbing down of America has reached its final stages
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Actually, the dumbing down of America has been occurring for several years under socialist policies which create an environment in which individual responsibility is diminished, even ridiculed, in favor of government aid. Policies which create a climate of thought in which solving personal problems becomes too difficult without government intervention. Policies which entitle Americans to growing lists of government help and handouts which in turn transforms growing numbers of Americans who become convinced there is no embarrassment or indignity in being given the handouts. And who then not only believe they are owed the gifts which they now demand, but who then are taught that the gifts actually give them dignity. At which point they have been dumbed down to believing that their sustenance and dignity depends on the largesse of government.

The final stages of the dumbing down of America will more easily be achieved with the election of Bernie Sanders. From there, we can evolve, or descend, into further degradations of actual individual freedom and dignity.

[Fly Rod]

If Bernie is elected what will the new flag look like?.....your president thought he was an advocate for gun control....in reality he has been the best advocate for the purchasing of guns, can not keep guns on gun shop shelves....as far as banning people on the no fly list over 40% of the 70 thousand on the list do not belong on it....Ted Kennedy, John Lewis(senator) and a couple of US news reporters was on it.....if U get a one way ticket to go to a foreign country U may end up on the no fly list....what some people do not know when purchasing a gun U R checked by the feds and they also check the no fly list included in that check...

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

If Bernie is elected what will the new flag look like?.....your president thought he was an advocate for gun control....in reality he has been the best advocate for the purchasing of guns, can not keep guns on gun shop shelves....as far as banning people on the no fly list over 40% of the 70 thousand on the list do not belong on it....Ted Kennedy, John Lewis(senator) and a couple of US news reporters was on it.....if U get a one way ticket to go to a foreign country U may end up on the no fly list....what some people do not know when purchasing a gun U R checked by the feds and they also check the no fly list included in that check...

Psssst. Bernie is pro gun.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Psssst. Bernie is pro gun.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

did not mention or ask if bernie was pro gun....only mentioned your current president about guns....

[Fly Rod]

Under obama's watch in 2012 a secret policy that barred federal agents from looking at social media post for visa applicants...this policy still stands today....they bar agents but employers R allowed to check U out on social media when applying for a job....durrrr.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ial-media.html

[Raven]

I can just hear him Sizzle


but....

[spence]

Sarcasm.

[Sea Dangles]

Good grief
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Has the vetting process been reduced to three months?

http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/0...-enough/209814

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Despite the prevailing stereotypes of Muslim Americans, Islam has contributed a great deal to the U.S. In fact, Muslims have played an integral part in defending the homeland and fighting for the American government’s geopolitical interests. The history of Muslim Americans serving in the U.S. military challenges the widespread skepticism that Americans have for those who follow Islam. Muslims are asked by Prophet Muhammad to “love your country as [patriotism] is part of Islam.” The Qur’an (4:60) calls on Muslims to be obedient to their governments: “O you who believe, obey God and the Prophet and obey those in authority from among you.” As I discuss in this piece, Muslims have heeded the Prophet’s call for allegiance and shown love for America.

Muslims served in the U.S. military under the command of General George Washington, who was Commander in Chief of the Continental Army during the American War for Independence. Rosters of soldiers serving in Washington’s Army lists names like Bampett Muhammad, who fought for the Virginia Line between the years 1775 and 1783. Another Again it seems many love to focus on the minority not the majority ...

one of Washington’s soldiers, Yusuf Ben Ali, was a North African Arab who worked as an aide to General Thomas Sumter of South Carolina. Peter Buckminster, who fought in Boston, is perhaps Washington’s most distinguished Muslim American soldier. Buckminster fired the gun that killed British Major General John Pitcairn at the Battle of Bunker Hill. Years after this famous battle, Peter changed his last name to “Salaam,” the Arabic word meaning “peace.” Peter Salaam later reenlisted in the Continental Army to serve in the Battle of Saratoga and the Battle of Stony Point. If Washington had a problem with Muslims serving in his Army, he would not have allowed Muhammad, Ali and Salaam to represent and serve non-Muslim Americans. By giving these Muslims the honor of serving America, Washington made it clear that a person did not have to be of a certain religion or have a particular ethnic background to be an American patriot.

And these Contributions to America are still happening to this day from all walks of life.. step back from the emoting and Fear and look at the big picture..

I dont understand killings in the name of Islam is some how different from Killings blamed on MH issues or Racial motivated Mass Murder .. when the latter happens far more frequently Here in the US .. they are all unacceptable ... And we all have far less control over theses events then we'll acknowledge

Sure, so long as Muslims are a small minority, they will, for the most part, be "patriots" of sorts. Many of them would either be "moderate" Muslims who don't really adhere strictly, or who, if they adhere at all, do it very loosely, to all the Quranic texts. This is just as true for Christians or Jews who are "moderate" in their beliefs. But note what happens to countries when Muslims are in control. And look at what happens when the picture of the "small minority" of so-called extremist or fundamentalist or radical Muslims are not paid enough attention because the big picture of moderate Islam paints a comforting, and fundamentally false, interpretation of Islam.

Muslims are actually allowed, when they are a minority, as a matter of their faith to deceive those in power--referred to as taqiyya. Washington may have had a problem if he had ordered the Muslims to kill invading Muslim regiments.

As for the citation of Quran 4:60, I found this:

[4:60] O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end.
[4:60] اے وہ لوگو جو ایمان لائے ہو! اللہ کی اطاعت کرو اور رسول کی اطاعت کرو اور اپنے حکام کی بھی۔ اور اگر تم کسی معاملہ میں (اُولُوالامر سے) اختلاف کرو تو ایسے معاملے اللہ اور رسول کی طرف لَوٹا دیا کرو اگر (فی الحقیقت) تم اللہ پر اور یومِ آخر پر ایمان لانے والے ہو۔ یہ بہت بہتر (طریق) ہے اور انجام کے لحاظ سے بہت اچھا ہے۔

The attached interpretations of this verse make it clear that the phrase "who are in authority among you," or in other translations "authority over you," has not been properly understood by some. Most translators understand it to mean "from among yourselves" which means you should obey only that authority which happens to be from among yourselves, meaning Muslim authority alone.

I could not copy the interpretation entries which are far more detailed, but the url, which also is: https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafsee...EN,E2&CR=EN,E2

Also, via islamicstudies.info, there is the Sunna 4:60 with its explanation:

(4:60) "(O Messenger!) Have you not seen those who claim to believe in the Book which has been revealed to you and in the Books revealed before you, and yet desire to submit their disputes to the judgement of taghut (the Satanic authorities who decide independently of the Law of Allah), whereas they had been asked to reject it.91 And Satan seeks to make them drift far away from the right way."
The added interpretation: "Taghut clearly signifies here a sovereign who judges things according to criteria other than the law of God. It also stands for a legal and judicial system which acknowledges neither the sovereignty of God nor the paramount authority of the Book of God. This verse categorically proclaims that to refer disputes to the judgement of a court of law which is essentially taghut contravenes the dictates of a believer's faith. In fact, true faith in God and His Book necessarily requires that a man should refuse to recognize the legitimacy of such courts. According to the Qur'an, belief in God necessitates repudiation of the authority of taghut. To try to submit both to God and to taghut at the same time is hypocrisy.

Both sources indicate that the Quran's notion of believers obeying their governments refers to governments that are in accordance to the commands of Allah. Which would be the commandments given in the Quran or the Sunna or the Hadith. In other words, governments that are Islamic in nature.

So the quote you cite, taken out of quranic context, and outside of Islamic law, is very misleading. Actually, the interpretation given by your source to the Quran 4:60 is the opposite of how Islamic scholars interpret the verse.

Both sources are legitimate pro-Islamic scholarship "experts"--al Islam, the official website of the Amadiyyah Muslim Community, and Islamicstudies.info.

[wdmso]

2016 and the Muslims are now finally getting around taking over the world!!!!!

If you think theses extremist are a recent development in world history you guys need to get out more

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

2016 and the Muslims are now finally getting around taking over the world!!!!!

If you think theses extremist are a recent development in world history you guys need to get out more

Is there a point to your sarcastic rant?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Is there a point to your sarcastic rant?

No ... just shorter than yours thats all

[spence]

Originally Posted by wdmso

No ... just shorter than yours thats all