Ukraine

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

It's not about weapons, Russia's ability to use direct military force is geographically quite limited. They went to Crimea as it was one of the few important places they thought they could get away with it.

If its not about weapons, why are we sending military fly-overs in the Baltics. Russia used their geographically limited weapons to do what "they thought they could get away with . . ." So far they have. So far, you and they are in agreement with what they could do. If "sanctions" don't chase them out, then what?

The thing is they already have a military presence there and by treaty can have a very large military presence until 2048. Aside from some economic output does Crimea really gain them all that much? Given the push back from the West a land grab into eastern Ukraine doesn't seem very likely.

OK. Sounds like everything is under control. Nothing to see here. Let's move along. Tend to our own political bickering. Get back to redistributing billions over here instead of there.

It's amazing how the GOP has jumped on Obama even going so far as to blame him for Crimea because he's "weak."

That's more like it. Let's bitch about the GOP jumping on Obama for something he does. How dare they? But they are geographically . . . er . . . politically quite limited. Jumping on Obama is one of the few ploys they think they can get away with. That's all they do anyway--haven't had a good policy in over ten years. Give the poor slobs a break. They're just projecting. They're the ones who are really "weak."

I think the opposite may be true, our policy is putting a lot of strain on Russia and forcing their hand.

It seems their hand forced its way into one of the few places they could get away with. Do "we" (divided you know) want to force them some more?

Regardless, the lack of unity must be giving Putin all the reassurance they need that we won't act. If anything, comments by the likes of Sen Graham and Rep Rogers are emboldening Russia's actions.

Hush, hush Graham and Rogers. Quit acting like Jane Fonda. Oh wait, she did that during time of war, not before it started. Oh yeah, the Dems acted that way during the Iraq war too. Kind of emboldened the "insurgents." Ah, but GOP types putting in their two cents worth before a war starts--that's just plain disunifying. They should just shut up and go along with whatever O wants to do. That's what they eventually do anyway.

Certainly the EU should act more as a union, but that doesn't count us out of it. We don't rely on Russia for much compared to the EU and they'll need our backing to lessen any economic ties, they can't do it alone.

-spence

They could EASILY do it alone if they had the will, the courage, and the . . . uh . . . what was that you were saying about GOP meddling . . . oh, yeah--the UNITY. And it wouldn't hurt their economic ties with us. And if we allowed ourselves to export oil it would more than make up whatever they'd lose from Russia. But we and they have a myriad of squabbles and differences that lead to lack of unity.

The EU is supposed to be an economic union. But most of its members don't seem to have a grasp of basic economics. Many were eager to jump into NATO for protection from the big bad bear, and into the EU for handouts. It's almost as if Germany actually was the eventual winner of WWII. It has the controlling hand in the EU. And the outliers have to go along in order to get bailed out of their ineptitude. At the very least, all the member countries could contribute bodies for a united military force--which could easily defend itself against Russia. Yet we still have forces there.

And here at home, we are bankrupt and proposing to go even further in debt, are downsizing the military, have "commitments" to other countries in our hemisphere and to Pacific Rim countries. The Caribbean, Central and South Americans have serious economic problems which feed us with millions of illegal immigrants. And continuously have surges of Marxist puppet dictators (with whom Putin threatens to ally). Our Pacific allies are constantly threatened by China and N. Korea (Oh yeah, Russia is making some pact with China). What would we do if China decided to do a Crimea on Taiwan? Our ties to the Middle East drain us and confuse us, and our strongest ally there is daily under siege and in threat of annihilation, and other "allies" there fund those who wish to destroy us. We won't allow Canada to build a pipe line which has been determined not to be a threat to the environment. (And, oh, as a funny aside, the Canadian Government and the State of Michigan agreed on building another bridge to each other to ease the crossing traffic jams due to the security inspections since 9/11. The Obama Administration okayed the deal and promised $200 million, I think, not sure of the figure, to kick in for the U.S. side of the obligations. But Obama's proposed budget left that paltry sum out. So, the upshot, the Democrat candidate running to replace the retiring Senator Carl Levin, and who is behind in the polls is "jumping" in and proposing a bill to put the money back in federal budget. The Republican Governor had successfully fought for the bridged to be built, his Republican state congress backed him, and now the Democrat candidate who is behind in the polls is going to be the "savior" of the project!! Wanna bet there was a little "smart" Chicago Style collusion to leave the bill out of the budget so he could be the knight in shining armor?)

So we have these monumental problems which we don't seem to have a serious answer for, but somehow we're supposed to be the deciding factor in the Ukraine dispute, even though Russia is a third world militarily second rate and geographically limited runt?

And what is it, exactly, that the EU is doing to help us with our problems?

It's almost like the Canada/Michigan bridge thing--like we're behind in the polls but put a shining light on our dim situation by coming in to save the day in some off the wall matter that distracts from the bad moment. Just keep the distractions coming till the mid terms.