Hypocrites in Washington

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

The other sad truth is that much of the income promised by this new tax will never be collected. With nearly 2,000 upper income Californians leaving the state every week the amount of money garnered from Brown's latest "tax the rich" scheme is sure to be much, much, less than forecast. California already has the worst business climate in the United States which makes raising taxes that much more damning. Businesses are leaving the state and with them taxpaying workers.

and coming to TX where I pay state tax of, whats that number again, oh yeah, ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah but it is filled with people from Texas.
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[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Justplug correctly stated it will take tax raises and spending cuts to cut the deficit. You point out that taxing the rich wont fix it, which points to tax raises on everyone. Ryan plan looks like it lowers taxes on everyone, but actually raises taxes, but only on the middle class. So are people tricked by Ryan or just don't know enough about his plan?
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when I do my families finances I look first to trim our expenses before I ask for a raise or find a new job. Its it too much to ask the same of our government?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

when I do my families finances I look first to trim our expenses before I ask for a raise or find a new job. Its it too much to ask the same of our government?

Yes. Yes it is. Because cutting expenses means less money to buy votes.

[scottw]

it's what happens when you throw money at something without fixing the probem(s)

General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again - Forbes

“So now I want to say that what we did with the auto industry, we can do in manufacturing across America. Let’s make sure advanced, high-tech manufacturing jobs take root here, not in China. Let’s have them here in Colorado. And that means supporting investment here.”
OBAMA

"GM has been selling cars in the U.S. at deep discount, and while it’s making money in China — and is outsourcing operations there and elsewhere — it’s bleeding losses in Europe. It’s spending billions to ditch its Opel brand there in favor of Chevrolet, including $559 million to put the Chevy logo on Manchester United soccer-team uniforms — and it just fired the marketing exec who cut that deal.

It botched the launch of its new Chevrolet Malibu by starting with the green-friendly Eco version, which pleased its government shareholders even though the car got lousy reviews. And it’s selling only about 10,000 electric-powered Chevy Volts a year, a puny contribution toward Obama’s goal of one million electric vehicles on the road by 2015.

“GM is going from bad to worse,” reads the headline on the analysis of Automotive News’s editor in chief, Keith Crain. That’s certainly true of its stock price.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...308139978/1193

The government still owns 500 million shares of GM, 26 percent of the total. It needs to sell them for $53 a share to recover its $49.5 billion bailout. But the stock price is around $20 a share, and the Treasury now estimates that the government will lose more than $25 billion if and when it sells.

That’s in addition to the revenue lost when the Obama administration permitted GM to continue to deduct previous losses from current profits, even though such deductions are ordinarily wiped out in bankruptcy proceedings.

It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that GM is bleeding money because of decisions made by a management eager to please its political masters — and by the terms of the bankruptcy arranged by Obama car czars Ron Bloom and Steven Rattner.

Rattner himself admitted late last year, in a speech to the Detroit Economic Club: “We should have asked the UAW [United Auto Workers union] to do a bit more. We did not ask any UAW member to take a cut in their pay.” Non-union employees of GM spin-off Delphi lost their pensions. UAW members didn’t."


Automotive News: ?GM is going from bad to worse? | WashingtonExaminer.com

[Jackbass]

Maybe this time the government will let it go bankrupt so they can re write the union contracts. What a joke.
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[spence]

I like how the Forbes link Scott posted contains a link to another Forbes article posted the day after that rips apart the first one.
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[justplugit]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Justplug correctly stated it will take tax raises and spending cuts to cut the deficit. You point out that taxing the rich wont fix it, which points to tax raises on everyone. Ryan plan looks like it lowers taxes on everyone, but actually raises taxes, but only on the middle class. So are people tricked by Ryan or just don't know enough about his plan?
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Reality check.Let's face it, there are 300 million people in the US with a total debt of 16-17 Trillion and there is only one way to fix it. In order to pay it down, EVERYONE needs to have a horse in the race.
The %50 of us who pay taxes will need to pay more and the other %50, who don't
will have to do with less from Govt. programs.

This picking, choosing,and dividing by politicians to get the most amount of votes for themselves is nonsense and dishonest. As I've said before, we need a leader who will stick his face into the wind lead, and make the unpopular choices.

Ryan at the very least has a plan, I'm still waiting to hear Obama's, besides putting
it all on the back of the so called rich.

[zimmy]

Yes, Ryan has a plan.the problem is that most of the people who are excited by his plan have no idea what is in the plan. They just think he is going to magically cut everyone's taxes and erase the deficit
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

and coming to TX where I pay state tax of, whats that number again, oh yeah, ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You live anywhere near Lubbock?

(CNN) -- An elected county judge in Texas is warning that the nation could descend into civil war if President Barack Obama is re-elected, and is calling for a trained, well-equipped force to battle the United Nations troops he says Obama would bring in.

The comments by Lubbock County Judge Tom Head, who oversees emergency planning efforts, were broadcast by CNN affiliate KJTV. He made similar remarks on radio station FOX Talk 950.

Saying that as the county's emergency management coordinator he has to "think about the very worst thing that can happen and prepare for that and hope and pray for the best," Head told radio host Jeff Klotzman that he believes "in this political climate and financial climate, what is the very worst thing that could happen right now? Obama gets back in the White House. No. God forbid."

Why are tax hikes politically radioactive?

Referring to unexplained "executive orders" and other documents that Obama and "his minions have filed," Head said, "regardless of whether the Republicans take over the Senate, which I hope they do, he is going to make the United States Congress and he's going to make the Constitution irrelevant. He's got his czars in place that don't answer to anybody."

Obama, Head said, will "try to give the sovereignty of the United States away to the United Nations. What do you think the public's going to do when that happens? We are talking civil unrest, civil disobedience, possibly, possibly civil war ... I'm not talking just talking riots here and there. I'm talking Lexington, Concord, take up arms, get rid of the dictator. OK, what do you think he is going to do when that happens? He is going to call in the U.N. troops, personnel carriers, tanks and whatever."

Head vowed to personally stand "in front of their personnel carriers and say, 'You're not coming in here.' And I've asked the sheriff. I said, 'Are you going to back me on this?' And he said, 'Yeah, I'm going to back you.' Well, I don't want a bunch of rookies back there who have no training and little equipment. I want seasoned veteran people who are trained that have got equipment. And even then, you know we may have two or three hundred deputies facing maybe a thousand U.N. troops. We may have to call out the militia."

Sheriff Kelly Rowe told KJTV there had been no conversation about such a civil war scenario. The two have discussed contingencies for emergency management, he said.

KJTV reported that the warning was linked to taxes. Head "indicates a tax increase is needed to shore up law enforcement to protect us," the station reported, adding that a tax increase is under consideration that "would largely benefit the district attorney and sheriff's offices. But the emphasis is more on salary competitiveness than doomsday scenarios."

Head made his controversial remarks Tuesday.

On Wednesday at a county commissioner meeting, he emphasized that his remarks were about "worst case scenario in my opinion," and added, "Do I think those are going to happen? Probably not."

County Commissioner Gilbert Flores told KJTV he was "ashamed" of Head's remarks, and told the judge, "I think you better plan to go fishing pretty soon."

Attorney Rod Hobson jokingly put up U.N. flags outside his Lubbock office, KJTV reported. "When I saw the story I thought, once again, Lubbock is going to be the laughingstock of the entire nation," said Hobson. "What makes it so sad is he is our elected county judge, who is in charge of a multi-million dollar budget. That is scary. It's like the light's on, but no one is home... I'd just like to think he's off his meds."

But video from the Wednesday meeting showed at least one citizen supporting him. "Judge Head, thank you, and God bless," one citizen said.

Head did not immediately respond to an e-mail or phone call to his office Thursday morning.

KJTV reported that an aide to Head said the judge will not be commenting for one or two days.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Yes, Ryan has a plan.the problem is that most of the people who are excited by his plan have no idea what is in the plan. [/i][/size]

Zim, where did you get that info from?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Zim, where did you get that info from?

Most cons and tea party supporters are opposed to any tax raises (well except income tax for the poor). The Ryan plan is a huge tax raise on most taxpayers. On top of that, they would have to seek out the details beyond con sound bites. The mantra of those people is not raise my taxes but cut spending and taxes on the wealthy. It is the tea party after all. You might very well know what the details are and like the plan. That is how it should work.
I anticipate similar remorse to a Ryan plan as people had to bush term two.
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[justplugit]

The WSJ broke the Ryan Plan down like this:

Spending-- 40.1 Trillion vs Obama 46.9 Trillion over 10 years

Tax Revenue--37 Trillion vs 40 Trillion

Lower tax rates and tax brackets

Medicare will stay the same for those over 55 and an additional
Choice-Medicare Type Program privatly run with additional Medicare type
plan to offer additional assistance for the poor.

Medicade made into a Federal Block Grant Program freeing States to tailor their
Prorgrams.

Individual Taxes- two tax rates %10 and %25 and includes removing loop holes

Corporate Taxes- lower top corporation from %35 to %25 while gutting exemptions

Reduce Defecit to %3 of GDP by 2014. Currently is %7.8 of GDP

Tax revenues would lag behind spending during a 10 year window.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

I like how the Forbes link Scott posted contains a link to another Forbes article posted the day after that rips apart the first one.
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there are a few opinion pcs linked to the article on the subject...the one to which you refer is a very brief, smarmy retort which is long on arrogance and insults and short on specifics...... the other linked pcs support the idea that GM is not "fixed" despite all of the government guidance and financial assistance and looming losses that the taxpayers will incur as a result of the direction that was chosed to "save" GM(unions interests) ....stock price doesn't look so hot if you are at all concerned about the tax payers

I guess if you consider that "rips apart"

General Motor's Restructuring Plan Won't Work - Business Insider

General Motors' executive shake-up points to struggles at carmaker - latimes.com
treason?...this one is great...hate it when they make it tough to fudge the numbers

As GM struggles to boost sales, image is everything

as you read through these you notice many similarities between Government Motors and the Current Admin.....lots of hype and rhetoric, contrived numbers to claim that things are better than they really are, dependence on government(s), dissaray and a lot of failure deflected in one way or another...not so big on openess and transparency.....and on

probably time for a new, very expensive campaign

[likwid]

Originally Posted by PaulS

You live anywhere near Lubbock?

(CNN) -- An elected county judge in Texas is warning that the nation could descend into civil war if President Barack Obama is re-elected, and is calling for a trained, well-equipped force to battle the United Nations troops he says Obama would bring in.

Try the "elected county judge" for treason against the United States.
And for being a kook.

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Yeah but it is filled with people from Texas.
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Not so much it is filled with a Ton of people who have left their home states in search of reasonable cost of living reduced taxes and good jobs also.
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[scottw]

how come we never heard about this?



Ex-GM workers in Colombia sew mouths shut in hunger strike [w/video]

[likwid]

Originally Posted by scottw

how come we never heard about this?



Ex-GM workers in Colombia sew mouths shut in hunger strike [w/video]

3rd world problems.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by justplugit

The WSJ broke the Ryan Plan down like this:

Spending-- 40.1 Trillion vs Obama 46.9 Trillion over 10 years

Tax Revenue--37 Trillion vs 40 Trillion

Lower tax rates and tax brackets

Medicare will stay the same for those over 55 and an additional
Choice-Medicare Type Program privatly run with additional Medicare type
plan to offer additional assistance for the poor.

Medicade made into a Federal Block Grant Program freeing States to tailor their
Prorgrams.

Individual Taxes- two tax rates %10 and %25 and includes removing loop holes

Corporate Taxes- lower top corporation from %35 to %25 while gutting exemptions

Reduce Defecit to %3 of GDP by 2014. Currently is %7.8 of GDP

Tax revenues would lag behind spending during a 10 year window.

So what is the critiszism for this plan?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by justplugit

The WSJ broke the Ryan Plan down like this:

Spending-- 40.1 Trillion vs Obama 46.9 Trillion over 10 years

Tax Revenue--37 Trillion vs 40 Trillion

Lower tax rates and tax brackets

Medicare will stay the same for those over 55 and an additional
Choice-Medicare Type Program privatly run with additional Medicare type
plan to offer additional assistance for the poor.

Medicade made into a Federal Block Grant Program freeing States to tailor their
Prorgrams.

Individual Taxes- two tax rates %10 and %25 and includes removing loop holes

Corporate Taxes- lower top corporation from %35 to %25 while gutting exemptions

Reduce Defecit to %3 of GDP by 2014. Currently is %7.8 of GDP

Tax revenues would lag behind spending during a 10 year window.

Two critical points: to balance the budget and reduce the deficit, all deductions and exemptions would go away, so those who are in that 10% bracket get a substantial tax raise; taxes on interest, dividends and long term capital gains would reduce Romney's taxes and those with income primarily from investments to between 0-1%.

So the plan is to substantially raise taxes on people with moderate incomes (roughly $200,000 and less) and probably those in the next group who have relatively limited investment income, but end taxes for those very wealthy who get most of their income from dividends and capital gains.

Also, for many corporations it would be an enormous tax increase, if exemptions are gutted. The effective tax rate is only 27.1%, so it would be a small decrease in the effective tax rate. I agree with this part of his plan, but for those who are of the limited taxation, get government out of business crowd, this part of the plan does not actual lower taxes by 10%. It is a tax cut for some businesses and an enormous tax increase for others.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by justplugit

So what is the critiszism for this plan?

My point is not to criticize the plan. My point is that if the great majority of Ryan supporters could have been asked about some annonymous plan that was going to give 90% of them an income tax increase in the range of 10-20%, most would not be too excited by it. Most Republican congresspeople have agreed to Norquist's pledge to not raise taxes. Ryan's plan raises taxes on most Americans and many businesses. The tax raises are hidden in the details, but they are tax raises none the less.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

My point is not to criticize the plan. .

you are hilarious.......


ALL Originally Posted by zimmy

Ryan plan looks like it lowers taxes on everyone, but actually raises taxes, but only on the middle class. So are people tricked by Ryan or just don't know enough about his plan?

Yes, Ryan has a plan.the problem is that most of the people who are excited by his plan have no idea what is in the plan. They just think he is going to magically cut everyone's taxes and erase the deficit

Most cons and tea party supporters are opposed to any tax raises (well except income tax for the poor). The Ryan plan is a huge tax raise on most taxpayers. On top of that, they would have to seek out the details beyond con sound bites. The mantra of those people is not raise my taxes but cut spending and taxes on the wealthy. It is the tea party after all. You might very well know what the details are and like the plan. That is how it should work.
I anticipate similar remorse to a Ryan plan as people had to bush term two.

You like that the majority of current tax payers would pay higher taxes under the Ryan plan? That is your idea of doing something about it? The doing something about it means raising taxes on everyone but those who have incomes over $200000, who would get dramatic cuts. People like Romney, Bill Gates, etc would pay about 1%. Great plan. Talk about sheeple, it is those who believe the garbage they are fed by clowns like Ryan .

That is why I find the argument that Romney and Ryan will lower everyones taxes, get people off of food stamps, and "restore" the by the people, for the people to be a farse.

it is the idea that Ryan and Romney raising taxes on the middle class and and cutting nearly all taxes for the super rich is somehow what was envisioned by the founders. Guess that is why the "sheeple" would fall for the Ryan scam.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by scottw

you are hilarious.......
criticize the plan game!

ALL Originally Posted by zimmy

Ryan plan looks like it lowers taxes on everyone, but actually raises taxes, but only on the middle class. So are people tricked by Ryan or just don't know enough about his plan?
Not here!


Yes, Ryan has a plan.the problem is that most of the people who are excited by his plan have no idea what is in the plan. They just think he is going to magically cut everyone's taxes and erase the deficit
Not here!


Most cons and tea party supporters are opposed to any tax raises (well except income tax for the poor). The Ryan plan is a huge tax raise on most taxpayers. On top of that, they would have to seek out the details beyond con sound bites. The mantra of those people is not raise my taxes but cut spending and taxes on the wealthy. It is the tea party after all. You might very well know what the details are and like the plan. That is how it should work.
I anticipate similar remorse to a Ryan plan as people had to bush term two.
Not here!

You like that the majority of current tax payers would pay higher taxes under the Ryan plan? That is your idea of doing something about it? The doing something about it means raising taxes on everyone but those who have incomes over $200000, who would get dramatic cuts. People like Romney, Bill Gates, etc would pay about 1%. Great plan. Talk about sheeple, it is those who believe the garbage they are fed by clowns like Ryan .
Ok, I sorta did there.

That is why I find the argument that Romney and Ryan will lower everyones taxes, get people off of food stamps, and "restore" the by the people, for the people to be a farse.
Not a criticism of the plan, just the distortion of it.


it is the idea that Ryan and Romney raising taxes on the middle class and and cutting nearly all taxes for the super rich is somehow what was envisioned by the founders. Guess that is why the "sheeple" would fall for the Ryan scam.
Again, more about the distortion than the plan

Good job Scott. Thanks for pointing out that pretty much everything I said was not about whether I thought the plan itself was good or bad, but I DID say that it was not what its supporters think it is and the way it is presented is a distortion of what the plan would actually do. I guess once in all those posts I said great plan sarcastically. I think three pages is enough. Time to move on.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by zimmy

mitt Romney of Romney care? Now that is funny. Or do you mean the Ryan plan that would raise the average middle class taxpayers bill by $2200? What Paul Ryan's Budget Plan Would Mean for an Average Family - DailyFinance
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The article projects that Ryan's plan would raise the average taxpayers bill by $2160 IF ALL THE DEDUCTIONS for the average taxpayer were eliminated, which the author says "admittedly, this is an extreme scenario."

Instead, he says, if that were not done to make the plan revenue neutral, cuts would have to be made from federal discretionary spending such as transportation (25%), assistance to poor (16%), education and social services (33%), and all the other government services except protected expenditures. This would not be a tax hike, but a "jump in the amount of money taxpayers would have to spend to educate their children, fix their cars, deal with e.coli outbreaks, and handle all of the other services that the federal government would no longer provide"(which is a strange jump from cutting services to no longer providing them). Most of these "services" are not granted in the Constitution for the central government to provide. Constitutionally, they are State, local, and individual responsibilites.

The author talks about how Ryan's plan projected to current level of medicare coverage would have cost the average person an extra $64 per month in premiums. Except that under Ryan's plan, there would be bidding for insurance coverage which he projects would lower cost of coverage compared to today's cost, so would actually save money, not raise premiums.

The article is typical static scoring that projects on the basis of the status quo. Costs remaining the same and the Federal Government maintaining the responsibility of "all those government services." It doesn't account for the shrinking costs for such "services" being provided by local treasuries rather than the big federal pockets, and the ensuing necessity to tighten cost controls (or loosen them in States like California which prefers to spend as wildly as the feds).

In effect, Ryan-like plans, which cut federal services, devolve power from central government to local government, which is the real, ultimate goal (vector).

[zimmy]

Bye scuzzball
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Bye scuzzball
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