Libya

[Jackbass]

Starting to get ugly. Amazing what happens when the truth comes out.

[Jim in CT]

Yep. Just in time for Ryan to use these developments to club Joe Biden like a baby seal. Bidens's strong suit is his formidable knowledge and experience in foreign relations, and now even that is a weapon for Romney/Ryan.

I'm not saying that the Libyan mess was forseeable and preventable. But the way it was handled by the Obama administration could not have been more bumbling or incompetent. It's pathetic, absolutely pathetic, and not suprising when yu elect a guy who is most famous for voting "present' 99% of the time as a state senator.

The State Department is now saying that they never believed that the attack was a response to the film. Yet there is video proof of administration officials saying that. What do they take us for, exactly? That's what you get when your state dept is headed by a liar (Hilary) who falsely claimed that snipers were firing her at an airport somewhere. I don't know how a politician is ever taken seriously after that. But this is what we elected, so it's what we deserve.

Not good timing for Obama.

[Scuttlebutt]

Not to mention the administration spent 70K to publish tv ads in Pakistan apologizing for the video. The State Department now confesses that there never was a protest outside the embassy before the attack. Ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, went on umpteen different talk shows suggesting, in fact, that the movie did provoke the attack. Wonder how the guy that made the movie feels now...OHHHHH BOY!

[buckman]

Not only was it foreseeable it was absolutely preventable .
This is a direct result of America's appease our enemy's foreign policy
Even Spence and Zimmy will be outraged
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[FishermanTim]

...the tail is waggin' the dog, man!

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's what you get when your state dept is headed by a liar (Hilary) who falsely claimed that snipers were firing her at an airport somewhere.

LOL, I forgot about that episode. Ya gotta laugh that was way too funny but
sadly true to form.

[justplugit]

So with Biden saying the Administration wasn't told they needed more
security at the Embassy in Bengazi, Obama should have attended more
than 50% of his daily security briefings and read less of them, especially leading up to the 9/11 anniversary.

Where does the buck stop?

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

So with Biden saying the Administration wasn't told they needed more
security at the Embassy in Bengazi, Obama should have attended more
than 50% of his daily security briefings and read less of them, especially leading up to the 9/11 anniversary.

Where does the buck stop?

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

[likwid]

Originally Posted by spence

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

You imply they make it up on their own.

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by likwid

You imply they make it up on their own.

Kind of like making up a video related protest that spiraled into an Embassy attack? I guess the congressional hearings are all a bunch of malarkey
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jackbass

Kind of like making up a video related protest that spiraled into an Embassy attack? I guess the congressional hearings are all a bunch of malarkey
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Actually that is absolutely nothing like what I just posted or implied, but carry on.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

Spence, please enligten me.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence enligten .

now, there's an oxymoron...sorry, couldn't resist

this Administration can't be honest about anything, the arrogance, disdain and bitterness being displayed is stunning, the two debates illustrated perfectly who these people are, at the top an extraordiantily arrogant and detached man who feels it beneath him to have to explain himself and his sidekick... a disrespectful, possibly deranged lunatic who apparently missed his President's lecture on civil discourse I can't recall a Presidential Ticket quite like this one...the mask crafted in 2008 has completely come off

we can't look to this administration for honesty or integrity on anything and they completely fail the "transparency" bar that they set for themselves...time for them to go

[basswipe]

The problem is clearly a youtube video.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, please enligten me.

I've never seen any reporting that indicates Biden or Obama were aware of any security requests. Even in the investigation it appears the issue never got past the State Department.

Additionally, it appears that the additional security that was requested was actually for Tripoli and not even at the embassy.

The size of the requests don't appear to have been large enough to have stopped the attack regardless.

An interesting element here that appears to be under reported is that the Libyan government doesn't want a big American footprint on their soil. They've prohibited the use of private contractors and the State employees have to rely on their private security teams and the Libyan military for protection.

Conflating the real situation with a talking point about Obama not attending briefings doesn't help either....

Because you're making it up.

-spence

[scottw]

and there you have it...the administration stance on just about every issue....we've evloved in 4 years from "Hope and Change"...to...."Everyone else is Lying...We're telling the Truth and Your are too Stupid to get it"....love it

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

and there you have it...the administration stance on just about every issue....

Well, that's what I heard from the investigation.

There's certainly a case to be made that our people in Libya felt they needed more protection, but that should be a policy discussion not a political one.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

Are you feeling OK Spence? Biden specifically said that "we weren't told" that anyone asked for extra security.

Someone is making things up Spence. As usual, it's you.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by justplugit

So with Biden saying the Administration wasn't told they needed more
security at the Embassy in Bengazi, Obama should have attended more
than 50% of his daily security briefings and read less of them, especially leading up to the 9/11 anniversary.

Where does the buck stop?

Spence, to answer your making things up complaint:
Did not "Giggles" say at the VP debate the Administration was not told of the need for more security?
Was it not confirmed by the White House that Obama only
attended 50% of his daily security briefings and read the others?

As President of the United States and Commander in Chief his FIRST duty is
to protect American citizens. He should have attended all the briefings to
listen, have input, and question. Security briefing meetings are meant for just that, not speed reading after the fact. How are you doing your most important job if you only show up to 1/2 of your meetings?
Your not.

Spence, you show up at 50% of your company meetings and then fail at your
job. Tell me, where would the buck stop?

May be a few things here you may not want to hear, but they were not made
up, or parroted, just my take on the whole situation.

What are your unbiased Canadian newspaper subscriptions saying about the matter.

[blackxpress]

Pardon my ignorance but isn't the State Dept. part of the administration? If the State Dept. is this inept and if it's true that they aren't keeping the Pres. and VP in the loop on this kind of stuff whose fault is that exactly? And just exactly who is it that sets State Dept. policy with regard to embassy security anyway? Are we really supposed to believe the President has no say in these matters? Maybe he's too busy with his re-election to be bothered with such trivia.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Are you feeling OK Spence? Biden specifically said that "we weren't told" that anyone asked for extra security.

Someone is making things up Spence. As usual, it's you.

Read my post.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, to answer your making things up complaint:
Did not "Giggles" say at the VP debate the Administration was not told of the need for more security?

The request was very specific, for an extension of a 16 person team based in Tripoli. My understanding is that the decision here is made at the deputy level, Clinton might not even have been aware of it.

I would assume that this would only go to the White House if it conflicted with already set policy or was deemed of grave importance. The request was denied as the policy was to continue to shift security to the Libyan government and limit US exposure.

People seem to be acting like Libya was going to blow up and Obama should have deployed a brigade of Marines.

That's really not the case. We're talking about a request for 16 people who wouldn't have been in a position to help defend the embassy staff even if they were approved.

Was it not confirmed by the White House that Obama only
attended 50% of his daily security briefings and read the others?

We've discussed this one to death. Obama has a different process than Bush did. That he's not always personally briefed doesn't mean he's now aware.

As President of the United States and Commander in Chief his FIRST duty is to protect American citizens. He should have attended all the briefings to listen, have input, and question. Security briefing meetings are meant for just that, not speed reading after the fact. How are you doing your most important job if you only show up to 1/2 of your meetings? Your not.

If the security issue never got beyond the deputies at State, how would having attended a briefing been any different than reading a brief?

The issue still wouldn't have been brought up and the same 4 Americans would have been killed.

-spence

[spence]

I think a much more substantive topic is how does the US encourage democracy in Islamic countries without creating the same autocracies and monarchies that were a product of Cold War politics.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I've never seen any reporting that indicates Biden or Obama were aware of any security requests. Even in the investigation it appears the issue never got past the State Department.

Additionally, it appears that the additional security that was requested was actually for Tripoli and not even at the embassy.

The size of the requests don't appear to have been large enough to have stopped the attack regardless.

An interesting element here that appears to be under reported is that the Libyan government doesn't want a big American footprint on their soil. They've prohibited the use of private contractors and the State employees have to rely on their private security teams and the Libyan military for protection.

Conflating the real situation with a talking point about Obama not attending briefings doesn't help either....

Because you're making it up.

-spence

"I've never seen any reporting that indicates Biden or Obama were aware of any security requests. Even in the investigation it appears the issue never got past the State Department."

Spence, in the aftefrmath of Hurricane Katrina, remember how everyone blamed Bush for the slow federal response? Well, I bet none o fthe people at the Superdome called Bush personally. Yet somehow people felt justified in blaming Bush, and they were obviously correct to do so. The buck truly does stop with Obama/Biden.

Along the same lines, Obama wasn't with Seal Team 6 when they killed Bin Laden, but Obama likes to take credit for that.

You want to give Obama credit for every good thing that happens, and no blame for the bad things. Can't have it both ways.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, in the aftefrmath of Hurricane Katrina, remember how everyone blamed Bush for the slow federal response? Well, I bet none o fthe people at the Superdome called Bush personally. Yet somehow people felt justified in blaming Bush, and they were obviously correct to do so. The buck truly does stop with Obama/Biden.

They blamed Bush because he personally appointed someone with zero direct experience to head FEMA. Heck of a job Brownie...

Along the same lines, Obama wasn't with Seal Team 6 when they killed Bin Laden, but Obama likes to take credit for that.

Big difference, Obama personally made the call and took accountability for the outcome good or bad.

You want to give Obama credit for every good thing that happens, and no blame for the bad things. Can't have it both ways.

One was a reactive situation, the other was a proactive situation. They are very different and complex in different ways.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

They blamed Bush because he personally appointed someone with zero direct experience to head FEMA. Heck of a job Brownie...


Big difference, Obama personally made the call and took accountability for the outcome good or bad.


One was a reactive situation, the other was a proactive situation. They are very different and complex in different ways.

-spence

Keep moving those goalposts Spence, until it looks as though your man-crush has scored a goal.

If Bush is to be blamed for appointing Mr Brown to head FEMA, what do you say about Obama picking everyone's Krazy Unkle Joe as Vice President? Afetr repeatedly making an ass out of himself at the debate, you dismissed it as Biden being his bombastive self. Fine. When Palin put her foot in her mouth every day in 2008, did you so casually dismiss that as Palin being her folksy self? Or did you make the claim that her behavior made her unfit.

When Joe is an idiot, he's just being Joe. When Palin is an idiot, she's truly an idiot.

Unbelievable hypocrisy. You just keep those goalposts on a dolly so you can roll them wherever you need to.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Big difference, Obama personally made the call and took accountability for the outcome good or bad.

-spence

not exactly...


At the urging of Valerie Jarrett, President Barack Obama canceled the operation to kill Osama bin Laden on three separate occasions before finally approving the May 2, 2011 Navy SEAL mission, according to an explosive new book scheduled for release August 21.

In ”Leading From Behind: The Reluctant President and the Advisors Who Decide for Him,“ Richard Miniter writes that Obama canceled the “kill” mission in January 2011, again in February, and a third time in March. Obama’s close adviser Valerie Jarrett isn't that "General Jarrett?" persuaded him to hold off each time, according to the book.

Miniter, a two-time New York Times best-selling author, cites an unnamed source with Joint Special Operations Command who had direct knowledge of the operation and its planning.

Obama administration officials also said after the raid that the president had delayed giving the order to kill the arch-terrorist the day before the operation was carried out, in what turned out to be his fourth moment of indecision. At the time, the White House blamed the delay on unfavorable weather conditions near bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

But when Miniter obtained that day’s weather reports from the U.S. Air Force Combat Meteorological Center, he said, they showed ideal conditions for the SEALs to carry out their orders.

.......................

Former U.S. Attorney Michael Mukasey told the Fox News Channel that the Navy SEAL mission to kill Osama bin Laden was preceded by “a highly lawyered memo” from CIA Director Leon Panetta — one designed to insulate President Barack Obama if the operation failed.


...................

we're talking about a guy that is shameless in taking credit for things that go right and whose three favorite words are I, Me and My....... and who is very quick to blame others when things go wrong or when he wants to deflect criticism...claiming that he "took accountability for the outcome good or bad"...is Joe Biden funny= comically sad and disturbing

[likwid]

Originally Posted by scottw

not exactly...

From the author of a book that talks about how 24 is realistic.

Whats next? Dr Seuss for foreign policy advisor?

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, you show up at 50% of your company meetings and then fail at your
job. Tell me, where would the buck stop?

What are your unbiased Canadian newspaper subscriptions saying about the matter.

Spence I love when you explain your points with the words,
"assume", "seem",and "my understanding", like those are facts.
However, you never seem to answer all the questions, like the ones above.

As Comander in Chief it's his job to be informed. Ignorance is no defense.

So another question, what is your "understanding", "assumption" or "seem to you" where the Buck should Stop.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence I love when you explain your points with the words,
"assume", "seem",and "my understanding", like those are facts.
However, you never seem to answer all the questions, like the ones above.

What didn't I answer?

As Comander in Chief it's his job to be informed. Ignorance is no defense.

POTUS doesn't know everything...you rely on the apparatus to inform based on priorities you've set.

We still have tens of thousands of troops deployed and here we're talking about 16 security agents.

So another question, what is your "understanding", "assumption" or "seem to you" where the Buck should Stop.

Ultimately the president gets to take credit or blame for just about anything regardless of their influence.

But the primary reason this is a big story has more to do with the election and far less to do with bigger policy.

-spence