Tell me something - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

capesams · 11-06-2006, 09:05 PM

Most folks like using heavy hardware on their wood....hard sst wire...beefy swivels..tripple ring's..bla..bla...an for the most part kinda poo on anything less....BUT! we all know beachmaster is one of the most sought after plug's around..right?...but yet he uses soft 304 sst wire and I havn't heard boo against it....are folk's talking hard heavy duty hardware to impress other's..when it may not be needed in the construction of one's creations???

Tagger · 11-06-2006, 09:19 PM

not trying to impress .. 2 seasons in a row I've had fish distort arse loop on 308L on my top water spook and another I've used .. Won't use anything less ..Straightened out mustad belly hooks, .. will only use VMC even though they tear the hell out of a plug . I had a split ring almost completly unravel on me ,, not sure what brand it was .. only triples for now on . I like the way overkill rating on krock barrel swivels .. Only cost a little more to go first class.. You ask .."Who you trying to impress ?" I ask .. "Why you such a cheap bastagde ?"

capesams · 11-06-2006, 10:18 PM

Have you heard any complaints about his wire that he uses??Danny p used the same stuff, any complaints there? before that there was brass wire an screw eye's...that stuff caught plenty of cows and they had braid then too..squiding line...so what's changed from then to now?

Karl F · 11-07-2006, 06:30 AM

braid, and tight drag.. todays world....
old timey linen line, dacron, and early mono.. limp and stretchy.. old timey loose drag.. played the fish more.. not horse the fish in....
is it the fish stressing the hardware.. or the fisherman?..
food for thought.. and I doubt cheaps, got anything to do with it..

numbskull · 11-07-2006, 07:18 AM

Well I use whatever I got, but I've had a swivel fail on a big Danny troller, a brass wire break on an older Gibbs bottle, and smaller swivels go on several plugs. I've never had a screw eye fail that I can recall. Go figure. By the way, the squidding line I used as a kid stretched more than mono.

capesams · 11-07-2006, 07:39 AM

I'm thinking the same Karl...crank her down...haul them in quick.Yes brass get's brittle when old..so may some hardware..but after all,, it's being soaked in salt........but the question still remains...is 304 soft wire just as good??..if you make plug's or not..you can always replace the hardware come winter..nothing is forever.

Charleston · 11-07-2006, 09:12 AM

The "softness" of the wire is determined by amount of the antifouling alloys. In this case nichol. IMHO (without looking it up) the tensil strength of the wire should not be appreciably different. Atleast from a plug building stand point.
If your tail wraps are good and your tail loop is not excessive in size, you should be good with 304 or 308 stainless wire.
I have had reports where the fish have cracked the plug inhalf and straightene the siwash hook (5/0 VMC) but the through wire was still in fine shape (304L).

ProfessorM · 11-07-2006, 10:07 AM

Curious why you ask Steve. Do you have a bunch of 304? I don't consider 304 very soft. It is a bitch to machine just like 316. I use the 308 till I run out then who knows, but for larger plugs, trolling types, I like 316. The reason for the 316 is I have had the front nose loop straighten out or distort the loop, lose it's shape, against the lip when I pull the tail loop up tight and wrap so I think the softer 308 is the reason. All pretty much the same price and I don't find either one more difficult to work with than the other, some do but not I. I would think the only possible way the thru wire will fail would be the nose loop pulling out. I can't see the tail loop coming undone, could distort, but not unravel. I also epoxy most of my stuff after wiring so rewiring later is not an option so got to use long lasting components. I would think 304 would be fine as it has excellent corrosion resistence slightly behind 316, which has more nickle, and is highly formable and weldable. Reels do have drags on them. P.

capesams · 11-07-2006, 12:23 PM

When I said soft..I should have said "annealed"it's the wire you can wrap around your finger....I know about metal content..more shine, more nickel..longer lasting etc...beachmaster..gibbs[older]..some blue streak used/uses this wire.

Again...has anyone heard of any complaints about the 304 annealed wire that's in beachmaster plug's? I've heard nothing and if that's true, then it must be fine an dandy to use.yes?no..maybe.

Backbeach Jake · 11-07-2006, 12:53 PM

If there were andthing wrong with a grade of wire or brand of hardware, rest assured that the hue and cry would be long and loud. Watch, I'll show you:

Van Staal.

(Jake jumps back)

ProfessorM · 11-07-2006, 01:45 PM

Didn't mean to tell you what you already know. I say it will be fine. Days gone by the fish were heavier and those plugs are still in existence. Plenty strong IMO. P.

capesams · 11-07-2006, 05:39 PM

no problem P.M...my thought's too...been useing it on smaller stuff like needle's,bambi swimmer's, but when going for the gold like 5-1/4 oz c.p.popper's and troller's an the like..I'll go cheap and use the 316 tough stuff.

Canalman · 11-08-2006, 10:01 AM

I've used both both no discernable difference. On hardware, I used rosco swivels for a while but I've seen many of them destroyed so I switched to Krok... so far so good. I've seen many mustads straigtened too... but I've even had a few VMCs straightened out... esp the siwash hooks... who knows....

-Dave

JHABS · 11-09-2006, 10:03 AM

Some things may seem over Kill but would rather not be under Gunned , You never know . Yes some of the other components work but for a Few Pennies why Skimp.

vineyardblues · 11-17-2006, 07:04 AM

You Have a good point CS,
That Monster fish Charlie Cinto pulled up while trolling wire line
Goo Goo eye, was not a wire tru plug with 3x split ring and the hooks I think were good old mustard,,,,,,,,that plug was a screw eye

VB

ProfessorM · 11-17-2006, 11:16 AM

Get any other good tidbits yesterday????????

OSSCA · 11-17-2006, 11:50 AM

300 series stainless is basically the same.I work in the metalworking industry,if i were to hand you a piece of 302(18-8) and a piece of 304 unless you looked under a microscope at a cross section you wouldn't notice any difference.316 is much harder due to both a higher nickel content and processing,all wire is drawn to size from a larger diameter so if you draw .312 18-8 down to .100 it'll be hard as a rock due to the density of the drawn material.Most of the hardware store wire is drawn from wire thats within .020" of the finish diameter so the difference beetween 302,304,308 is minimal.

ProfessorM · 11-17-2006, 12:18 PM

When I think of soft stainless I think 303. I am also looking at these materials as far as machinability. 303 machines like butter compared to 304 with 316 a little more of PIA. Never machined any 308 but i would think it would be like 303. If you want the best go with 316. Not an expert on wire. Thanks for the info. OSSCA. Learn something every day. P.

OSSCA · 11-17-2006, 12:42 PM

316 IMO is the best choice

Charleston · 11-17-2006, 12:50 PM

The use of 316 is bt far better but the way I see it: You will loose the plug long before 304 or 308 let you down!

capesams · 11-17-2006, 12:52 PM

I think we all agree 316 is the longest lasting,,best wire...But it's a bitch to work with if using plyer's by hand....now back to the annealed wire...there has to be something between soft and rock hard 316,,,where's the middle ground here??

ProfessorM · 11-17-2006, 01:03 PM

I would have to say 308 gets my vote. Very easy to work with using plyers.

wheresmy50 · 11-17-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capesams

I think we all agree 316 is the longest lasting,,best wire...But it's a bitch to work with if using plyer's by hand....now back to the annealed wire...there has to be something between soft and rock hard 316,,,where's the middle ground here??

I don't think you can temper 316, so cold worked would be as hard as 316 gets. I'm no metalurgist, but the annealed wire has to cold work to some extent just by twisting it. Maybe someone could shed some light on that.

You know . . . you could just use titanium.

OSSCA · 11-17-2006, 01:27 PM

Here's a link to Carpenter Technology's website,These guys are the world leader in top quality stainless hope it helps http://www.cartech.com/

ProfessorM · 11-17-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheresmy50

You know . . . you could just use titanium.

I do

but very pricey$$$$$$$$$$$$$

capesams · 11-17-2006, 04:51 PM

you can turn 316 into putty if you heat it..but who wants to be a fire bug everytime you want to bend a nose loop or tail...now! I've been making some very small noses on some cherry needles..and with the 316/308 it's been splitting the nose of some plug's ..this need's to stop..to much work involved in these little begger's to be tossing them in the trash.

Backbeach Jake · 11-17-2006, 08:11 PM

Will heating the wire with a propane torch and letting it cool slow soften it some? I know if you heat it too much it ain't stainless anymore. Just thinking thru my fingers...

Tagger · 11-17-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capesams

you can turn 316 into putty if you heat it..but who wants to be a fire bug everytime you want to bend a nose loop or tail...now! I've been making some very small noses on some cherry needles..and with the 316/308 it's been splitting the nose of some plug's ..this need's to stop..to much work involved in these little begger's to be tossing them in the trash.

I think I been splitting my darters cranking down arse loop .(Maybe).. afraid to make any until I figure it out .. not the wood .. have made other plugs from hard maple same everything .. no split ..

NIB · 11-17-2006, 08:36 PM

Come on steve u know the drill this ain't my dad's tackle era.limber glass rods mono with plenty of stretch. hooks made out of real steel.
If ur splittin the nose of ur plugs put something thru the fron't eyelet like a drill bit.take it out to snug the last 1'/2 turn.or use softer wire.Habs uses the softer stuff.i think the wire is the least of my problems.When it comes to hardware on a plug.On the gibbs pencils i change the soft wire to hard wire because at 3 plus oz's the tail loop gets mangled when it hits the rocks..I don' think u will have that problem with lighter needles...

Pete F. · 11-17-2006, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capesams

you can turn 316 into putty if you heat it..but who wants to be a fire bug everytime you want to bend a nose loop or tail...now! I've been making some very small noses on some cherry needles..and with the 316/308 it's been splitting the nose of some plug's ..this need's to stop..to much work involved in these little begger's to be tossing them in the trash.

I use a ferrule on thin or long plugs. Two different reasons.
The long plugs I drill a 3/16 hole and the thin ones it keeps from splitting.
In keeping with my cheap theory I use 3/16 pop rivets that i drill out to 1/8.
I have some thru wired darters that have ferrules too, Gibbs?