Gotta Love the Super-Libs

[scottw]

this is just so pathetic, I expected more from the "compassionate ones"




In September 1992, when the Washington Post reported that Al Gore, then the Democratic candidate for vice president, had released his tax returns, the second paragraph in the story noted that out of income of $183,558, Gore “donated $1,727 — less than 1 percent — to charity.


Note how little the Obamas apparently gave to charity from 2000 to 2006-- well short of the biblical 10% tithe for all seven years and less than the 2% that average Americans report giving. In two of the years, the Obamas gave far less than 1% of their income to charity; in three of the years, they gave around 1% of their income to charity. Only in the last two years have they given substantially more as their income skyrocketed -- 4.7% in 2005 and 6.1% in 2006.



The Democratic candidate for vice president, released his tax returns for the years 1998 to 2007. The returns revealed that in one year, 1998, Biden and his wife Jill gave $120 to charity out of an adjusted gross income of $210,979. In 2005, out of an adjusted gross income of $321,379, the Bidens gave $380. In nine out of the ten years for which tax returns were released, the Bidens gave less than $400 to charity; in the tenth year, 2007, when Biden was running for president, they gave $995 out of an adjusted gross income of $319,853.

Here is a chart of the Bidens’ giving for the years covered by the tax returns:
Adjusted Gross Income Charity
1998 $215,432 $195
1999 $210,797 $120
2000 $219,953 $360
2001 $220,712 $360
2002 $227,811 $260
2003 $231,375 $260
2004 $234,271 $380
2005 $321,379 $380
2006 $248,459 $380
2007 $319,853 $995
Total $2,450,042 $3,690

Looking at the ten-year total of Biden’s giving, one percent would have been $24,500. One half of one percent would have been $12,250. One quarter of one percent would have been $6,125. And one eighth of one percent would have been $3,062 — just below what Biden actually contributed.

[Nebe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogy

[scottw]

nice try Nebe, those are the sorry facts...here are some examples of demagoguery

POSTED by NEBE:

"well... there is this little thing about the electronic voting machines
Wally O'Dell, CEO of Diebold (maker of most electronic voting machines), said in a republican fundraising...


i am sure Diebold and all of the freaks out there that try to restrict people from getting to the voting machines will be doing everything they can to make sure that wont happen likwid



Whe needs debates??? DIEBOLD will sort out the mess and deliver a swift victory



Dont count on it passing if the voting machines were made by DIEBOLD "




Demagogy (also demagoguery) (Ancient Greek δημαγωγία, from δῆμος dēmos "people" and ἄγειν agein "to lead") refers to a political strategy for obtaining and gaining political power by appealing to the popular prejudices, emotions, fears and expectations of the public — typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda, and often using nationalist or populist themes.

[spence]

I think Nebe hit the nail on the head with this one. How you can derive much of anything from a silly analysis like this is beyond me.

So the entire measure of a person's good will towards their fellow man is recorded in their tax return?

I guess there must have been no such thing as charity before the IRS

-spence

[The Dad Fisherman]

The way the Goverment rips through cash it might be nice to have a Cheap Bastard up there on capitol hill

[JohnnyD]

"Gotta Love the Super-Libs" doesn't really make any sense relative to the topic at hand. How does a democratic candidate's charitable donations relate to super liberals?

Oh that's right, if you aren't a Republican, you're a crazy, neo-nazi, New Wolrd Order loving, nonconforming liberal that wants to change the current course of the country. As opposed to staying on the same lucrative path the country is on right now. *note extreme sarcasm*

I'd rather have someone in the White House that doesn't give much to charity, than someone in the white house that wants to give massive tax breaks to the wealthy.

What percentage of your income have *you* given to charity?

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The way the Goverment rips through cash it might be nice to have a Cheap Bastard up there on capitol hill

Thanks a lot TDF, for making me laugh out loud while sitting in a conference room full of 100 people.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

"I'd rather have someone in the White House that doesn't give much to charity, than someone in the white house that wants to give massive tax breaks to the wealthy.

What percentage of your income have *you* given to charity?




Thanks a lot TDF, for making me laugh out loud while sitting in a conference room full of 100 people.

Could you tell me what tax breaks the wealthy have recieved from Bush. I'm ready to be convinced. From my research the top 5% now pay a bigger share then they did back under Clinton. Why do you people hate the people that have made it in this country so much. Why don't you hate the lazy, freeloaders instead. The wealthy employ millions, spend millions on products and services. Do you remember what Clinton's luxury tax did to the boat building industry? How much should a person making 250k with 4 kids pay in taxes? Lets here a figure.....

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

Could you tell me what tax breaks the wealthy have recieved from Bush. I'm ready to be convinced. From my research the top 5% now pay a bigger share then they did back under Clinton. Why do you people hate the people that have made it in this country so much. Why don't you hate the lazy, freeloaders instead. The wealthy employ millions, spend millions on products and services. Do you remember what Clinton's luxury tax did to the boat building industry? How much should a person making 250k with 4 kids pay in taxes? Lets here a figure.....

I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about Bush. He did provide tax cuts that on the surface appeared to benefit everyone in the country, especially middle class. However, his tax cuts contributed to the current state of the economy. Now, I'm not saying that it is the sole cause, just that it's a good part of the reason why we're facing a $500 billion deficit going into 2009. But all that is a different conversation.

I fully agree with you on the lazy freeloaders of America. Personally, I'm sick and tired of paying to raise other people's kids. There's nothing like the person in line in front of me at the supermarket that had 4 young kids and has the taxpayers pay their grocery bill. Or when i worked as an EMT in Hartford and then Boston and people being on MassHealth because they're too lazy to get a job. I think welfare should be limited, no free ride for a life time or paying $200/month for an apartment where I pay $1200 in the same complex for the same apartment. I love my neighbor that has assisted rent, yet somehow drives a 2006 Lincoln. *Sorry, I'm ranting*

I was talking about is this, which is relative to the current Bush tax cuts (From the NYTimes 2 days ago):

[buckman]

So under Obama people making over 2.7 mil. will pay roughly 1/2 of their income to taxes( this chart shows an increase over todays levels) and people who most likely don't pay any taxes now, will get a check in the mail. What a country.

[JohnnyD]

The Average Change is not clear. I wish I could find the link now to post. I believe the % Change is based on how much they currently pay in taxes. Right now someone in the top tier is paying 35% and will be paying about 38.5%. Not quite half.

One thing I appreciate under Obama's plan, and this is not demonstrated above, is that as a middle-class business owner, I won't get hit as hard after self-employment taxes.

[buckman]

I was never that strong in math but if you make 2.7mill. and you add 700K in taxes to 35% that you now pay it adds up to a hell of a lot more then .5% I think the chart as a whole is B.S. I also don't trust Obama on any tax promises. We get suckered in by the lowering the tax pledge every election, by both parties.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

I was never that strong in math but if you make 2.7mill. and you add 700K in taxes to 35% that you now pay it adds up to a hell of a lot more then .5%

It's an average for all people above $2.7 mill. So that includes the Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and oil executives of America that made more in the time it took me to write this than I will over the whole year. So the average increase for all people over $2.7mil is $700k per taxpayer in that bracket.

I think the chart as a whole is B.S. I also don't trust Obama on any tax promises. We get suckered in by the lowering the tax pledge every election, by both parties.

I agree with you 100%. People running for president and congressmen Dems and Repubs alike, they all promise lower taxes, improved trade deficit and a budget closer to balanced. I'll make sure to not hold my breath.

[Joe]

You see a person with EBT card or somebody in your apartment building getting subsidized rent, and it's easy, "That lazy freeloader - they're the problem with this country."
But are the poor really what's wrong with the country?
Think about it. The poor have no power. They can't manipulate markets or events. What do they have to do with the global financial crisis or the staggering rise in the cost of oil over the last several years?
Maybe the people don't hate the lazy freeloaders as much as they used to because the EBT cards and subsidized rents never seemed to have the same impact as unchecked greed is having now.

[fishbones]

[QUOTE=Joe;621511]
But are the poor really what's wrong with the country?
Think about it. The poor have no power. They can't manipulate markets or events. What do they have to do with the global financial crisis or the staggering rise in the cost of oil over the last several years?
QUOTE]

Joe, you make a good point, but the poor people do have quite a bit of power. They can go to the polls and vote. Or, they can work hard to improve their situation and better themselves and their families.

As for manipulating markets and events, or the price of oil, how many people really do have the means to affect those things? I know I certainly don't have much of an effect on the financial markets or oil. But, I do contribute a good amount of my pay to taxes to support people who are less fortunate (or a lot lazier)than me.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by Joe

You see a person with EBT card or somebody in your apartment building getting subsidized rent, and it's easy, "That lazy freeloader - they're the problem with this country."
But are the poor really what's wrong with the country?
Think about it. The poor have no power. They can't manipulate markets or events. What do they have to do with the global financial crisis or the staggering rise in the cost of oil over the last several years?
Maybe the people don't hate the lazy freeloaders as much as they used to because the EBT cards and subsidized rents never seemed to have the same impact as unchecked greed is having now.

The poor are the largest voting block in the entire country. And who do you think they vote for? He who give away the most. They are pandered too (used) and treated in a very condescending manner by the party they contually vote for and keep in office.

By the way my sister has one of those health cards and she works full-time. Her husband did too until recently. I think what you pay is pro-rated based on income.

[The Dad Fisherman]

There's also plenty of people who are poor that work 60-70 hours a week....

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

The poor are the largest voting block in the entire country. And who do you think they vote for? He who give away the most. They are pandered too (used) and treated in a very condescending manner by the party they contually vote for and keep in office.

By the way my sister has one of those health cards and she works full-time. Her husband did too until recently. I think what you pay is pro-rated based on income.

Wait a minute here. Are you saying that John Kerry doesn't really care for or relate to all of the downtrodden and poor people who he represents? I find that hard to believe.

[JohnnyD]

Joe,

In terms of the EBT, I'm talking about people that were originally poor and then went and had 4 kids and now are even poorer. Saw this a ton as an EMT. They aren't helping themselves, society and are almost certainly damning their children.

When talking about my lazy freeloader neighbor getting subsidized rent, he drives a gorgeous 2006 Lincoln. I cannot think of a single situation where that is legitimately acceptable.

@The Dad Fisherman
You are completely correct. Growing up with a single mom, she worked her ass off. At one point working 3 jobs with some 60+ hour weeks. She did everything in her power to bring home a sustainable living to keep a roof over our heads and never accepted government assistance as an option. And did it all as a high school drop out all on her own, so she started in no better position than many of the people we're talking about.

She is the reason why I have no sympathy for people that refuse to work hard to improve their situation and actually contribute to society, as opposed to always taking. However, my deepest sympathies do extend to the people that truly need help due to disability, illness, sudden loss of job and other legitimate hardships.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

@The Dad Fisherman
She is the reason why I have no sympathy for people that refuse to work hard to improve their situation and actually contribute to society, as opposed to always taking. However, my deepest sympathies do extend to the people that truly need help due to disability, illness, sudden loss of job and other legitimate hardships.

I have no sympathy for those people either but some people always seem to assume that if someone is poor then they MUST be a free loader and s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g the system dry.

My Dad was laid off for 2 and 1/2 years once when I was a kid (he was an Ironworker) so he worked as a fry cook and some times drove a taxi to make ends meet. he had to partake of that "Gubment Cheese" during that time to help out through the tough times, I'm sure it burned his ass to do it but he had 2 kids and he needed to. I would never ever consider him a free-loader because he took some assistance to get through the tough times.

I do take issue with the no-loads that sit home and pump out a kid every 5 years so the can keep collecting and s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g on the government Tit. Got no use for people like that.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

My Dad was laid off for 2 and 1/2 years once when I was a kid (he was an Ironworker) so he worked as a fry cook and some times drove a taxi to make ends meet. he had to partake of that "Gubment Cheese" during that time to help out through the tough times, I'm sure it burned his ass to do it but he had 2 kids and he needed to. I would never ever consider him a free-loader because he took some assistance to get through the tough times.

I do take issue with the no-loads that sit home and pump out a kid every 5 years so the can keep collecting and s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g on the government Tit. Got no use for people like that.

You hit the nail on the head as far as what the real problem is here. Your dad used the assistance for what it was intended - to get his family through a rough time. Back several years ago, people had PRIDE and didn't want to ask for help. They would rather exhaust all other options than ask for assistance.

Now, it seems that there are a lot of people who see the social assistance programs as an entitlement to not have to work. Why actually work when you can get by without doing anything? They have no pride and are fine with living in a dumpy apartment and watching talk shows on t.v. all day.

It's a shame that something that was instituted for all the right reasons is now being used for the wrong reasons.

[JohnnyD]

TDF,

You are spot on with it all. Your Dad's situation is exactly the one in which the system was originally designed. Seems like life throws curveballs at some of the best people, and those are the ones that deserve the assistance. I, too, would never consider you Dad or someone in a similar situation a free-loader. I'd like to speculate that the system was abused to a lessor degree then, than it is now.

Edit: fishbones beat me to it.