Immigration hysteria

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by DZ

This has very little to do with immigration - just look at what the usual suspects are posting here. Just anti-administration rhetoric to anything that happens even if Trump does what they wanted him to do. He caved and signed the EO and now they hate it. Sorry but it's hard to take your views seriously if you've never once approved of or given credit to something that this administration has done. There is no satisfying a "resistor" and many of us accept that fact.

No, Dennis it is not that Trump has never done anything good. It is that the things he is successful at he almost always claims to be some superlative or another, i.e. the greatest, most ever, whatever and that makes it hard to agree.
You've fished with guys like that haven't you? Sometimes they even catch a fish.
Justifying the present by looking at the past is never a good idea.
If we want to look at what former presidents did perhaps Herbert Hoover might be a good one to look at and see what he did with the Mexican Repatriation. It's not as bad as that.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by DZ

This has very little to do with immigration - just look at what the usual suspects are posting here. Seems like the vast majority of threads here are started by right leaning folks - I guess the usual suspects?Just anti-administration rhetoric to anything that happens even if Trump does what they wanted him to do. So if the vast majoriy of threads are started by right leaning folks, I guess you'd prefer no one to have an opposing view. He caved and signed the EO and now they hate it. Sorry but it's hard to take your views seriously if you've never once approved of or given credit to something that this administration has done. There is no satisfying a "resistor" and many of us accept that fact.

If I couldn't stand to read 2 sides to an arguement, I wouldn't come here.

We prob. should go back to the really important stuff that used to be discussed here - if brown suits where inappropriate for the WH or putting someone's shoes on a desk was wrong.

[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

If I couldn't stand to read 2 sides to an arguement, I wouldn't come here.

We prob. should go back to the really important stuff that used to be discussed here - if brown suits where inappropriate for the WH or putting someone's shoes on a desk was wrong.

How about why some people can’t fact check anything they post?
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I know, look at all these Right leaning kooks that keep starting threads.

Spence is right, we should spend more time fact checking.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I know, look at all these Right leaning kooks that keep starting threads.

Spence is right, we should spend more time fact checking.

Look at the rest of the front page. Or the 2nd page. JohnR isn't right leaning?

I didn't use the word kooks - you did. I did say "vast majority". Is that what bothered you enough to reply?

[DZ]

Originally Posted by PaulS

If I couldn't stand to read 2 sides to an arguement, I wouldn't come here.

We prob. should go back to the really important stuff that used to be discussed here - if brown suits where inappropriate for the WH or putting someone's shoes on a desk was wrong.

Not what I meant - Other points of view are important and I want to read them. But as a general rule I find that Jim, myself, and others with more conservative views tend to be more understanding of the liberal side views than vice versa. I just can't recall anyone here who is left leaning ever commend an action by the current administration. My father always told me there will always be people "Who would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope", it kind of reminds me of the anti-Trump movement. I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by DZ

Not what I meant - Other points of view are important and I want to read them. But as a general rule I find that Jim, myself, and others with more conservative views tend to be more understanding of the liberal side views than vice versa. I just can't recall anyone here who is left leaning ever commend an action by the current administration. My father always told me there will always be people "Who would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope", it kind of reminds me of the anti-Trump movement. I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake.

"I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake." guess you dont recall the past 8 years and what actions warrant being commended his Behavior he's treatment of others his Name calling... its hard to find a praise worthy thing... Honestly PS when the last time you saw him with his young son

[spence]

Originally Posted by DZ

I just can't recall anyone here who is left leaning ever commend an action by the current administration. My father always told me there will always be people "Who would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope", it kind of reminds me of the anti-Trump movement. I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake.

I pay pretty close attention and can't think of anything significant worth commending. Combine that with the pathological dishonesty, childish tantrums, rampant corruption etc... etc... and I'm not inclined to give Trump the benefit of doubt.

[PaulS]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factch...JJE?li=BBnb7Kz


Did the Obama Administration Separate Families?

In defending its “zero tolerance” border policy that has caused the separation of families, the Trump administration has argued that the Obama and Bush administrations did this too. That’s misleading. Experts say there were some separations under previous administrations, but no blanket policy to prosecute parents and, therefore, separate them from their children.

“Bush and Obama did not have policies that resulted in the mass separation of parents and children like we’re seeing under the current administration,” Sarah Pierce, a policy analyst with the Migration Policy Institute, told us.

Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said at a June 18 press briefing: “The Obama administration, the Bush administration all separated families. … They did — their rate was less than ours, but they absolutely did do this. This is not new.”

Nielsen went on to explain that there is indeed something new, as we wrote in another article on this topic. Under a “zero tolerance policy” on illegal immigration announced by Attorney General Jeff Sessions in early April, the administration is now referring all illegal border crossings for criminal prosecution. By doing that, parents have been separated from their children, because children can’t be held in detention facilities for adults.

DHS told us that 2,342 children were separated from their parents between May 5 and June 9.

But DHS couldn’t provide any statistics on how many children may have been separated from their parents under the Obama administration.

Instead, when we asked, it pointed to numbers that show 21 percent of apprehended adults were referred for prosecution under President Barack Obama. From fiscal year 2010 to fiscal 2016, there were 2,362,966 adults apprehended illegally crossing the Southern border, and 492,970 were referred for prosecution, those figures show. But that doesn’t tell us anything about how many children may have been separated from their parents under Obama.

And we don’t have such statistics to compare the past to the present.

“We have not seen any data out of the current or prior administration on how many cases that were prosecuted were individuals who arrived with minors,” Theresa Cardinal Brown, director of immigration and cross-border policy at the Bipartisan Policy Center, told us in an email. “So we cannot make any guesses or assumptions about how many separations based on prosecution there were or are.”

Brown said that even though DHS says 2,342 children have been separated from their parents in about one month, we don’t know what percentage of those cases are due to prosecutions for illegal crossings, and how many are due to other policies that would require separations — such as suspicion of trafficking, another outstanding warrant or insufficient proof of a family relationship.

We asked DHS if it would provide such a breakdown, but we haven’t received a response.

MPI’s Pierce said that the likely reason data aren’t available on child separations under previous administrations is because it was done in “really limited circumstances” such as suspicion of trafficking or other fraud.

“Previous administrations used family detention facilities, allowing the whole family to stay together while awaiting their deportation case in immigration court, or alternatives to detention, which required families to be tracked but released from custody to await their court date,” Brown and her co-author, Tim O’Shea, wrote in an explainer piece for the Bipartisan Policy Center’s website. “Some children may have been separated from the adults they entered with, in cases where the family relationship could not be established, child trafficking was suspected, or there were not sufficient family detention facilities available. … However, the zero-tolerance policy is the first time that a policy resulting in separation is being applied across the board.”

Jeh Johnson, DHS secretary under the Obama administration, told NPR earlier this month that he couldn’t say that family separations “never happened” during his tenure. “There may have been some exigent situation, some emergency. There may have been some doubt about whether the adult accompanying the child was in fact the parent of the child. I can’t say it never happened but not as a matter of policy or practice. It’s not something that I could ask our Border Patrol or our immigration enforcement personnel to do,” Johnson said.

The Obama administration faced a surge of unaccompanied children from Central America trying to cross the border in 2014. Cecilia Muñoz, director of the Obama administration’s Domestic Policy Council, told the New York Times this month that a multi-agency team was considering “every possible idea” at the time, including separating families. “I do remember looking at each other like, ‘We’re not going to do this, are we?’ We spent five minutes thinking it through and concluded that it was a bad idea,” the Times quoted Muñoz saying. “The morality of it was clear — that’s not who we are.”

Brown told us that while the Obama administration “did separate some families,” it also tried to detain families together. In 2016, a court ruling limited how long children with their parents could be in family detention centers. That ruling confirmed that a 1997 settlement applied to both unaccompanied and accompanied minors, as we’ve explained before.

“At that point,” Brown said, “family detention dwindled and most families were released into the US, either on their own with a notice to appear or under Alternatives to Detention, which could be an ankle bracelet or a supervised monitoring provision where they had to check in with ICE regularly until their immigration court hearing.”

On June 20, President Donald Trump signed an executive order directing Nielsen to keep families in custody together “during the pendency of any criminal improper entry or immigration proceedings involving their members” at least “to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations.”

[scottw]

yawn....

[Pete F.]

Why does Trump keep claiming that Democrats in whole or part want open borders?
Not that a blatant lie should upset anyone.
Is he confusing them with Libertarians?
https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Why does Trump keep claiming that Democrats in whole or part want open borders?
Not that a blatant lie should upset anyone.
Is he confusing them with Libertarians?
https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

BC lying is at the core of his soul. that is who he is.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Why does Trump keep claiming that Democrats in whole or part want open borders?

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

hello.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post

It's not a crime to be in the US as an undocumented immigrant.

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

hello.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post

It's not a crime to be in the US as an undocumented immigrant.

That doesn't mean they want open borders. I'm just telling you what current law is.

[Sea Dangles]

I am more down the middle than most of you wingnuts I can tell you that. Nobody recalls me beating up Obama on a regular basis, I took my medicine unlike the baby tantrums we see a constant flow of on this board.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I am more down the middle than most of you wingnuts I can tell you that. Nobody recalls me beating up Obama on a regular basis, I took my medicine unlike the baby tantrums we see a constant flow of on this board.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Well isn't that precious.

[detbuch]

Isn't it the responsibility of the people who legally reside in a country to make that country what it is? We don't seem to approve of our country meddling in the affairs of other countries. We don't believe in nation building. How is it that the U.S. becomes the go to place for people who don't like life in their country? Aren't we meddling in the affairs of other countries if we keep their citizens who do not formally and legally immigrate here instead of sending them back?

If a country is a #^&#^&#^&#^&hole, is it the responsibility of the U.S. to clean that up for some people, or is it the responsibility of those who populate the country to clean it up themselves? We had our revolution, as have other countries such as those in Eastern Europe who threw off the Soviet shackles. As did various countries in Africa and Asia. As did nations and people throughout history. And as did some of those various countries in Middle and South America who liberated themselves from European domination and are now dominated by corruption of their own making and from which now come our millions of illegal immigrants.

And where is the great and powerful United Nations? Isn't it supposed to make the world community a safe place for everyone? It likes to condemn Israel on a regular basis. Or send troops every now and then into various places like Africa or Bosnia to stop various genocides or horrible treatment of women and children.

Or are some of us comfortable in using women and children "immigrants" as political pawns? Of course we are. And the approving running-dog media lackeys will hype it to help their political cronies who don't want to stop the flow of illegals while, in the meantime, the so-called third world is awash in oppressed people, rapes, murders, poverty, genocides (e.g. South Africa and Christians in the Middle East) that are too redundant or politically inexpedient to report on. But rather to give us the expedient lies like there aren't any Muslim no go zones in various European countries, or not report on immigrant riots and rapes and murders by Muslims in various European cities and keep it rather quiet when the word finally gets out. Or won't give much covering of the shift to the right in Europe due precisely to the Progressive immigration policies and what they are doing to the indigenous culture. Giving all of that its due reportage might weaken the Progressive immigration ideology here in the U.S.

But, to a lot of us here, that is all becoming apparent. That phoniness in order to protect and promote the Progressive geo-political ideology is being exposed by its own overconfident, more in-your-face contradictory and often ridiculous rhetoric, policies, and outright attacks on speech, religion, and constitutional rights.

Hence, Donald Trump.

[wdmso]

What fox news thinks of separating children

On Friday, "Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade took heat for saying that migrant children "aren't our kids."

"Like it or not, these are not our kids," he said. "Show them compassion, but it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country."

Kilmeade argued that Americans were treating migrant children as if they are more important than "people in our country who pay taxes and have needs as well."
Fox News contributor Rachel Campos-Duffy on Friday defended the detention centers by saying "some African-Americans" told her the conditions are better than where they were raised.

"The detention centers are far safer than the journey that these children just came on," she said. "I spoke to some African-Americans who say, 'Gosh, the conditions of the detention centers are better than some of the projects that I grew up in.' "

Laura Ingraham's Fox News program she said the child migrant detention centers were "essentially summer camp."

Good old republican family values on display MAGA

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

What fox news thinks of separating children

On Friday, "Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade took heat for saying that migrant children "aren't our kids."

"Like it or not, these are not our kids," he said. "Show them compassion, but it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country."

Kilmeade argued that Americans were treating migrant children as if they are more important than "people in our country who pay taxes and have needs as well."
Fox News contributor Rachel Campos-Duffy on Friday defended the detention centers by saying "some African-Americans" told her the conditions are better than where they were raised.

"The detention centers are far safer than the journey that these children just came on," she said. "I spoke to some African-Americans who say, 'Gosh, the conditions of the detention centers are better than some of the projects that I grew up in.' "

Laura Ingraham's Fox News program she said the child migrant detention centers were "essentially summer camp."

Good old republican family values on display MAGA

And what did you have to say when Obama was doing it? Zip. How come?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

And what did you have to say when Obama was doing it? Zip. How come?
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Jim, you keep saying this. Obama didn’t use immigration as a racist wedge issue. I’ve never in my life seen a US president dehumanize another people with blatant lies for political gain like this. It’s not just that the policy is different, the entire agenda is different.

America isn’t perfect but we’re slipping into that space where our actions are betraying who we are. We’ve been here before...it’s time to wake up.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, you keep saying this. Obama didn’t use immigration as a racist wedge issue.

What kind of issue did he use it for?

I’ve never in my life seen a US president dehumanize another people with blatant lies for political gain like this.

It's not nice to call MS-13 animals, but . . . oh well, Trump says stuff.

It’s not just that the policy is different, the entire agenda is different.

Thank God!!

America isn’t perfect but we’re slipping into that space where our actions are betraying who we are. We’ve been here before...it’s time to wake up.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yeah, Peter Fonda, Kathy Griffin, Antifa, Black lives matter, Bill Maher (We need a recession), Corrupt FBI, highly biased mainstream media, constant accusations of conservatives being racist, racist, racist, homophobes, anti-women, deplorable, and a bunch of similar stuff . . , yeah, your actions are betraying who you are.

And yeah, we've been there before . . . Jane Fonda, the Weathermen, campus radicals, Black Panthers, Symbionese Liberation Army, Che Guevara as left's hero, American left's support of Communism almost from its start and heavily so during FDR Administration as well as support from America's leading academics and mainstream media such as the NYT.

Yeah we've been there before and it's time to wake up.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, you keep saying this. Obama didn’t use immigration as a racist wedge issue. I’ve never in my life seen a US president dehumanize another people with blatant lies for political gain like this. It’s not just that the policy is different, the entire agenda is different.

America isn’t perfect but we’re slipping into that space where our actions are betraying who we are. We’ve been here before...it’s time to wake up.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It's not what you say,its how you say it,
It's not what you do,it's how you do it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Perhaps they should microchip Immigrants or just tattoo numbers on their forearms.
That would solve the immigration problem.
Satire in case you wondered, though I fear some might have that view
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

What fox news thinks of separating children

On Friday, "Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade took heat for saying that migrant children "aren't our kids."

"Like it or not, these are not our kids," he said. "Show them compassion, but it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country."

Kilmeade argued that Americans were treating migrant children as if they are more important than "people in our country who pay taxes and have needs as well."
Fox News contributor Rachel Campos-Duffy on Friday defended the detention centers by saying "some African-Americans" told her the conditions are better than where they were raised.

"The detention centers are far safer than the journey that these children just came on," she said. "I spoke to some African-Americans who say, 'Gosh, the conditions of the detention centers are better than some of the projects that I grew up in.' "

Laura Ingraham's Fox News program she said the child migrant detention centers were "essentially summer camp."

Good old republican family values on display MAGA

I don't know what your version of family values is. I don't know if you even have a version--if you think such values are nonsense.

I don't know if Republicans have a new version, if they have discarded or modified their old ones in order to please the current post modern sexual and gender "values" so that they can get some of their votes.

But, as far as I can remember, the Good old American family values required adherence to the law. They didn't include encouraging other families to act illegally. They demanded loyalty to the Republic, not a welcome mat for cultural and political invasion--not a means to demographically change the nature of the society in which they invested their lives, their honor, and their fortunes.

[PaulS]

Thanks Pres. Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/u...-article-click

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Thanks Pres. Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/u...-article-click

325,000,000 people in the country and you find a video of an a-hole and of course....Trumps Fault.

I'm sure she was all puppy dogs and rainbows, and volunteered her free time at the free clinic, before Trump became president...then....BOOM....she became a racist POS after 2016.

pretty sure that is 60+ years of being an a-hole you are witnessing there. Makes more sense to blame George Wallace for that than Trump

Great example of......nothing

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

325,000,000 people in the country and you find a video of an a-hole and of course....Trumps Fault.

Article says she mentioned Trump and pretty much parroted him word for word.

I'm sure she was all puppy dogs and rainbows, and volunteered her free time at the free clinic, before Trump became president...then....BOOM....she became a racist POS after 2016

If you don't think Trump hasn't used bigotry, hatred and racial animosity to rile his base with lies I don't know what rock you've been hiding under. That some just write it off as nothing is shameful.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Great example of......nothing

Originally Posted by spence

Article says she mentioned Trump and pretty much parroted him word for word.Exactly why I posted it. Same words Trump has used in the past

NM

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Article says she mentioned Trump and pretty much parroted him word for word.

Again, 325,000,000 and this is one a-hole. She is not representative as you would like everybody to believe. She was 60 years in the making, that did not happen overnight.

Originally Posted by spence

If you don't think Trump hasn't used bigotry, hatred and racial animosity to rile his base with lies I don't know what rock you've been hiding under. That some just write it off as nothing is shameful.

Did I say that, no

but when you throw out 1 video and go "See, See I told you this is Trumps America" that is pretty shameless as well.

Thought it was stupid when people threw out that video of the black woman saying that Obama is going to give us all free stuff and tried to pass that off as representative of Obama's base....this is no different.

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Again, 325,000,000 and this is one a-hole. She is not representative as you would like everybody to believe. She was 60 years in the making, that did not happen overnight.

I see these videos, the thousands at campaign rallies screaming with rage at Trump saying basically the same thing, the increasing confidence of white supremacists etc... etc...