Muslim Man VS Gun Range

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Thanks for making my point unrealistic Fear ... no different then there coming to take our gun you guy's just re package the same BS and yet theses horrendous things you predict never materlize. . Yet you guys do what you do best disregarded the facts 100,000 gun deaths mutiple mass shootings yearly and barely a word ?. but let a Muslim do the shooting and people are instantly More horrified .. and any rational thinking goes out the window why is it America always needs an enemy real or imagined

Be cool. No need to waste your time and energy spreading the truth. Just relax and enjoy your life. America doesn't have any enemies. Except, as you point out, the enemy is us.

And that can be "interpreted" literally or nonoriginally. Or any way your discretion desires.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Thanks for making my point unrealistic Fear ... no different then there coming to take our gun you guy's just re package the same BS and yet theses horrendous things you predict never materlize. . Yet you guys do what you do best disregarded the facts 100,000 gun deaths mutiple mass shootings yearly and barely a word ?. but let a Muslim do the shooting and people are instantly More horrified .. and any rational thinking goes out the window why is it America always needs an enemy real or imagined

Isnt it the Democrats that never let a good crisis go to waste ? Just look at what happens in the media if a policeman shoots a black man .
When in reality your chances of getting shot by a policeman a much less than being shot by a terrorist . Especially if you're a law abiding citizen
I take it you're in the "global warming is the most important threat " camp .
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Thanks for making my point unrealistic Fear ... no different then there coming to take our gun you guy's just re package the same BS and yet theses horrendous things you predict never materlize. . Yet you guys do what you do best disregarded the facts 100,000 gun deaths mutiple mass shootings yearly and barely a word ?. but let a Muslim do the shooting and people are instantly More horrified .. and any rational thinking goes out the window why is it America always needs an enemy real or imagined

"Yet you guys do what you do best disregarded the facts 100,000 gun deaths mutiple mass shootings yearly and barely a word ?"

Barely a word? Says who? You think my side is hesitant to discuss this, or unwilling to offer solutions? Not true. It's just that liberals aren't interested in hearing our proposed solutions, because we talk about things like "responsibility", and the liberal platform makes it clear that they aren't big on the notion of individual responsibility and facing the consequences of one's actions (if you don't believe me, look up where both sides stand on abortion).

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"“Since 9/11"

Convenient to start tracking this, the day after 09/11...I bet that if you excluded all the days when there were terrorist attacks, the number of people killed by terrorists would be pretty darn low.

"But the Fear that it is going to Happen YOU is Just unrealistic "

True, for now. And in 1943, the chances of an American civilian being killed by the Nazis or the Japanese was also pretty low. But we were at war then (as we are now), and we had to deal with it.

Also, I'm not worried about a low-level crook in my town getting a nuclear weapon. We need to prevent jihadists from getting one, because if they did, they would use it 10 seconds later.

Street crime happens. But street criminals haven't dcelared war on the law-abiding.

I don't think anyone who wants to be aggressive against jihadists, has ever hinted that we don't also need to be vigilant about everyday, garden-variety street crime. The problem is, liberals are as wrong on how to deal with domestic crime (assume it goes away with gun restrictions, blame white people, and throw money at the problem, and tell the criminals that it isn't their fault), as they are on how to deal with terrorists (pretend the problem doesn't exist).

Jim these are not new problems terrorism ,Crime they have been around a very long time not just the last 8 year's...

But time and time again these things get packaged as if they showed up Since Obama? the right loves to blame progressives or liberals as if the Republicans have never held the Whitehouse or had any members in congress ...

Then every election cycle they regurgitate How weak we are How our military needs more how tough on crime they are ( currently we have the most combat experienced and ready Military in the world)

And the Democrats regurgitate there own BS as well how things in America are not fair .. Bla Bla Bla

The problem With America there Is no Middle no middle class ! no middle ground !
We have be come a country heading towards the class system ! you stay where you are born rich, middle class or poor ... The American Dream sadly is becoming more of a dream than an actual Concept for success ...

The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (Democracy, Rights, Liberty, Opportunity, and Equality) in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, and an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in a society with few barriers. In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.[1]

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim these are not new problems terrorism ,Crime they have been around a very long time not just the last 8 year's...

But time and time again these things get packaged as if they showed up Since Obama? the right loves to blame progressives or liberals as if the Republicans have never held the Whitehouse or had any members in congress ...

Then every election cycle they regurgitate How weak we are How our military needs more how tough on crime they are ( currently we have the most combat experienced and ready Military in the world)

And the Democrats regurgitate there own BS as well how things in America are not fair .. Bla Bla Bla

The problem With America there Is no Middle no middle class ! no middle ground !
We have be come a country heading towards the class system ! you stay where you are born rich, middle class or poor ... The American Dream sadly is becoming more of a dream than an actual Concept for success ...

The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (Democracy, Rights, Liberty, Opportunity, and Equality) in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, and an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in a society with few barriers. In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.[1]

"time and time again these things get packaged as if they showed up Since Obama?"

I have never heard anyone say that either terrorism or street crime, originated under Obama. I will say that the policies Obama endorses, make both of those things worse. He inherited a stable Iraq, pulled out against the advice of many, which allowed ISIS to form, and now that region is far worse off than when he took office. As far as crime goes...we have newly elected liberal mayors in NYC and Chicago...and murders are through the roof. WDMSO, I follow the evidence, and I base my conclusions on evidence, and form my opinions on evidence. Most of our inner cities have been controlled by Democrats for 50 years. It's not working. Look at NYC. In the 1980's, it was a war zone. Rudy Guiliani gets elected, imposes conservative anti-crime principles, and we saw a huge drop in murders - a HUGE drop. Then they elect a liberal twit, who does away with everything Rudy did, and immediately, murders are way up. How else can those facts be interpreted, other than my conclusion that Rudy was right, and Deblasio was wrong? Please tell me, what other conclusion is there? Because I honestly don't get how anyone can deny the reality that's staring us in the face. It's not theory, we have actual, empirical evidence. If muderers went down under Deblasio, I would arrive at a different conclusion...but they didn't, they skyrocketed.

"the right loves to blame progressives or liberals "

I don't think conservatives are always right - not by a long shot. I am pro gay marriage, and I think we need more common sense inour gun laws - not more laws necessarily, but ones that make more sense.

Extremism exists on both sides, and is rarely productive.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Black kill blacks Whites kill whites Hispanics kill Hispanics

and Musulims kill Muslims ( not a race )
“

Hispanics aren't a race either.....
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[The Dad Fisherman]

I take Facebook as entertainment....anybody that takes it seriously is a few lures shy of a full tackle box
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[wdmso]

You think my side is hesitant to discuss this, or unwilling to offer solutions?

Sadly you may be one of the few that see common sense changes are needed

But you get drowned out by those who's Solutions is

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun”

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

You think my side is hesitant to discuss this, or unwilling to offer solutions?

Sadly you may be one of the few that see common sense changes are needed

But you get drowned out by those who's Solutions is

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun”

It's obvious Jim has a different theory of interpretation than you. You should save yourself the frustration of trying to persuade him to think like you do and just agree to disagree with him.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Good point, I'd wager more innocent black people are shot than white at a much higher rate.

Apparently Caucasions are not taking enough advantage of their white privilege when it comes to getting shot by white police. Probably the white police aren't allowing white folks the equal opportunity to get shot. If we can't somehow instill, maybe through the public school system, a fervent desire in whites to demand greater equality in the shootings, maybe the DOJ can order State and local police departments to also shoot a white person every time they kill a black one. Maybe an executive order might be required. If the government doesn't correct the inequality, white folks should take to the streets and demand equal opportunity to get shot by white policemen. They could probably shut down and burn more towns than blacks can since there are so many more whites. No equal shootings, no justice.

Asians should also join in on the fight for equality to get shot. They get shot by police only at half the rate as whites. Hispanics and Native Americans also need to more greatly assert their right to be shot by white police since they get killed by police at less than half the rate as blacks.

The Guardian newspaper is running a database, The Counted, tracking US killings by police and other law enforcement agencies in 2015, and counted 1140 killed, with rates per million of 2.92 for "white" people, 7.2 for "black", and 3.5 for "hispanic/latino", 1.34 for "Asian/Pacific Islander", and 3.4 for "Native American". The database can be viewed by state, gender, race/ethnicity, age, classification (e.g., "gunshot"), and whether the person killed was armed.[5]

The Government obviously needs to crack down on rampant racist white cop shootings and make them more equal. The problem is so persistent that very severe methods to create equal opportunity to be shot by police, especially white ones, need to be taken.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

The Guardian newspaper is running a database, The Counted, tracking US killings by police and other law enforcement agencies in 2015, and counted 1140 killed, with rates per million of 2.92 for "white" people, 7.2 for "black", and 3.5 for "hispanic/latino", 1.34 for "Asian/Pacific Islander", and 3.4 for "Native American". The database can be viewed by state, gender, race/ethnicity, age, classification (e.g., "gunshot"), and whether the person killed was armed.[5]

What question are you trying to answer?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

What question are you trying to answer?

Why are white people so evil?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Kalamazoo, Michigan: Six shot dead in 'random' attacks

Sorry this is off topic he wasn't Muslim or Black

What was the reason the non-Muslim, non-black man killed six people? If motive can be found, steps can be taken to prevent some further murders.

What was the motive for the Muslim couple to kill 14 people and wound 21 others in San Bernadino?

If the motive was religious jihad, what steps can be taken to prevent more of the same?

Should we be concerned about various groups whose words and creeds appear, or specifically say, that those outside their creed are considered inferior and should be subjugated or exterminated? White racists groups, for instance? Would such groups naturally inspire caution and fear in those outside of their belief system?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

What was the reason the non-Muslim, non-black man killed six people? If motive can be found, steps can be taken to prevent some further murders.

What was the motive for the Muslim couple to kill 14 people and wound 21 others in San Bernadino?

If the motive was religious jihad, what steps can be taken to prevent more of the same?

Should we be concerned about various groups whose words and creeds appear, or specifically say, that those outside their creed are considered inferior and should be subjugated or exterminated? White racists groups, for instance? Would such groups naturally inspire caution and fear in those outside of their belief system?

Looking for motive outside a criminal investigation.. tends only to help the living make excuses why things happen (hence the OP) .. knowing ones motive has little impact on future prevention of heinous acts carried out by individuals and gives little solace to The Familys left behind

So preventing Muslims from exercising their 2a right or shooting an AK47 is not prevention.. Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing

[buckman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Looking for motive outside a criminal investigation.. tends only to help the living make excuses why things happen (hence the OP) .. knowing ones motive has little impact on future prevention of heinous acts carried out by individuals and gives little solace to The Familys left behind

So preventing Muslims from exercising their 2a right or shooting an AK47 is not prevention.. Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing

I'm pretty sure the FBI , most in law enforcement, and anybody with any common sense at all , would disagree .
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Looking for motive outside a criminal investigation.. tends only to help the living make excuses why things happen (hence the OP) ..

There's that tricky distinction between "excuse" amd "reason."

knowing ones motive has little impact on future prevention of heinous acts carried out by individuals and gives little solace to The Familys left behind

Using disicretionary interpretation, we can agree to disagree.

So preventing Muslims from exercising their 2a right or shooting an AK47 is not prevention.. Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing

So gun laws preventing purchase of "assault" weapons is not prevention, it's discrimination.
Didn't the Muslims who did the killing in San Bernadino think they wre doing the right thing?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So gun laws preventing purchase of "assault" weapons is not prevention, it's discrimination.
I never said anything about preventing purchase of assault weapons ?


Didn't the Muslims who did the killing in San Bernadino think they wre doing the right thing?

I am sure they did as twisted as it maybe Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing.. in their twisted minds

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I am sure they did as twisted as it maybe Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing.. in their twisted minds

You are correct. In their opinion, they were doing the right thing. They no doubt would have considered your mind to be twisted. And would have considered it controlling and discriminatory on your part if you accused them of it. Nothing to fear there. As you said, whites mostly kill whites, blacks kill blacks, and Muslims kill Muslims.

Are Muslims mostly killing Muslims in this country? Or in Europe or Canada? Or in the "Western" part of the world?

Oh, there are those wonderful occasional honor killings.

[Sea Dangles]

Mental illness is not a crime, however the fact that this country has failed to find a proper way to care for these folks is criminal.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Mental illness is not a crime, however the fact that this country has failed to find a proper way to care for these folks is criminal.
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It's certainly a big part of the problem.

Case in point, there wasn't a single reference to the Kalamazoo Uber shootings on the Sunday shows this weekend by Presidential candidates (or even questions) yet had this guy been a Muslim people would be hoarding bottled water and duct tape.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

It's certainly a big part of the problem.

Case in point, there wasn't a single reference to the Kalamazoo Uber shootings on the Sunday shows this weekend by Presidential candidates (or even questions) yet had this guy been a Muslim people would be hoarding bottled water and duct tape.

You're right, terrorism is a nonissue ....carry-on
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by buckman

You're right, white Christian based terrorism is a nonissue ....carry-on
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Fixed it for you
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Fixed it for you
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You didn't fix it for me, I'm not nuts .
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

It's certainly a big part of the problem.

Case in point, there wasn't a single reference to the Kalamazoo Uber shootings on the Sunday shows this weekend by Presidential candidates (or even questions) yet had this guy been a Muslim people would be hoarding bottled water and duct tape.

Jeff, to use your words "apples and oranges". Although I am not surprised that you choose to compare a person who lost his marbles to an act which is as heinous as the San Bernadino shootings. It would be difficult to prevent either situation but the intent part of the discussion is evident to most sensible folks.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Jeff, to use your words "apples and oranges". Although I am not surprised that you choose to compare a person who lost his marbles to an act which is as heinous as the San Bernadino shootings. It would be difficult to prevent either situation but the intent part of the discussion is evident to most sensible folks.
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I wasn't comparing Kalamazoo to San Bern.

[The Dad Fisherman]

No comment
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[PaulS]

Our guy is handsomer.

[detbuch]

The Muslim clerics of Iran and their Supreme leader are the leading arbiters of Shia Muslim "interpretation" of Islam. Their version of "peace" differs from the Saudi belief (the epicenter of Sunni "interpretation) only insofar as one is Shia and the other is Sunni. And either depiction of peace differs from ISIS (which claims to be Sunni) mostly in degree, and in the desire of any of them to maintain their own power.

The Saudi Shia leaders behead scores of people every year. ISIS (the so-called "extremists" who we want to believe are not truly Muslim) will have to go a long way to equal the number of beheadings executed by Saudi Arabia which we are to believe is the head of a supposedly true and "moderate" form of Islam.

Iran, representing the true and "moderate" Shia version of Islam, has its own hundreds of executions every year. But it also, as a matter of Koranic decree, executes and supports terrorism outside of its borders. In case we have forgotten about the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, it has been reinvigorated and the bounty has immensely grown:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0928f5a6d2287

Of course, we're not supposed to be "biased" against this religion which is the most biased and terroristic one than any other major faith. It is, as we are supposed to believe, the religion of peace.

[Sea Dangles]

I am not sure what your point was then. We are being targeted in our own country by religious extremists and thousands have lost their lives. If your point is we,as a society have over reacted to these acts of terror then you simply are not paying attention. When a nut like we have in Kalamazoo or the person who shot up the abortion clinic in Colorado does not get the attention from the media that you think they deserve the comparison becomes embarrassing.
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