stimulus bill ????

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

Again, I think there is wasteful spending in the bill, but a lot of line items, for instance spending to help communities not have to fire teachers and police, is probably needed, but the GOP is branding this as Liberal Pork. -spence

Which is happening already in RI... maybe some of that can be blamed on the unions, but certainly not all of it!

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Yes, the GOP magic "cure all" prescribed for any and all situations. Recession? Cut taxes...Growth? Cut taxes...Terrorism? Cut taxes...The clap? Cut taxes...

If tax breaks are always so good why don't we just eliminate taxes?

Also, doesn't the bill as is contain hundreds of billions in tax breaks? Shouldn't these work to stimulate the economy while the other spending keeps the ship right side up?

Again, I think there is wasteful spending in the bill, but a lot of line items, for instance spending to help communities not have to fire teachers and police, is probably needed, but the GOP is branding this as Liberal Pork.

-spence

What tax breaks mean is that the govornment takes less of OUR money. That means we can spend it how we want. Hire more people, remodel a room, buy a car. It's our money and if you can argue they need more of it and you feel better about them spending it, then nobody is stopping you from writing a check.

Claiming the loss fire fighters, policemen and teachers is the oldest liberal con in the book. I don't buy it. I'm from Ma. You can't drive through town without seeing fifteen cops working details. Get rid of all the mandated special education for every little problem and you will have plenty of teachers. Reform emergency personel sick pay policy and you will have plenty of firefighters. If you don't want to reform any thing here, then there are plenty of places you can cut. We don't need to increase funding over current levels.

IMO over 1/2 of this bill is money that we don't need to spend right now. We simple don't have it. It's not any more complicated then that. If you fund something now that you can't afford you have to get rid of it later. It's economics 101. WE DON"T HAVE THE $$$$.

[Nebe]

so buckman.. how does a tax break help a poor guy who cant find a job?

Its proven that an owner of a business isnt always going to take that tax break and create a job, he is usually going to pocket the profits while he can..

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by buckman

Look, there's no doubt that you can spend 800 billion dollars and create a bunch of jobs. That's not going to fix the mess we are in.

You can double spending on a bunch of programs and help some people out. That won't fix the country.

Rolling back the clock on welfare reform that Reagan and Clinton worked hard on won't help the country either.


Like it or not tax breaks work...Handing out money will not. It's not even real money they are handing out. It's debt that your kids will have to pay.

You have to give people insentive to work hard. An ability to grow there companies.

Thats a pretty lame response based on all the other crap you been posting here. maybe you should actually read the bill inside of just complaining about it.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Thats a pretty lame response based on all the other crap you been posting here. maybe you should actually read the bill inside of just complaining about it.

I read the bill. Did you? My opinion is based on my believe. You can call it crap if you want. That's your opinion. Granted, it doesn't have as much substance as your response, but again,that's my opinion.

My feeling about the bill and the process is:

It is too based on the believe that the govornment can increase it's size and spend our way out of the current situation.

We just don't have the money!

It is full of earmarks...

The people that will be dolling out the money are selfserving, currupt, hypocrits that stuffed this bill full of everything they tried to pass in the past. This is a point that you fail to except or you are ok with.

The bill was written based on emotion and not economics.


Bottom line.... The process was just plain wrong and this bill is a joke. Thats just my opinion.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

so buckman.. how does a tax break help a poor guy who cant find a job?

Its proven that an owner of a business isnt always going to take that tax break and create a job, he is usually going to pocket the profits while he can..

How did you start your business? Govornment handout? Maybe you talk the game but really don't pay the actual tax amount you should ( a little cash on the side never hurt)

It works like this. Maybe if you pay less on taxes you can afford to hire someone to clean your studio so you can do what you do best. Maybe that guy on the corner that has no job.

Bottom line. The rich guys money will get spent. I trust him more then Pelousi.

Once again if you want to pay more then by all means do.

[EarnedStripes44]

At the very least, the bill will provide a some fiscal thrust amid stagnating demand.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by buckman

How did you start your business? Govornment handout? Maybe you talk the game but really don't pay the actual tax amount you should ( a little cash on the side never hurt)

Can we have full disclosure of your income and tax returns?

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by buckman

How did you start your business? Govornment handout? Maybe you talk the game but really don't pay the actual tax amount you should ( a little cash on the side never hurt).

I hope your not a Yankee fan. They are one biggest welfare recipients in NYC. That new stadium with its 70+ luxury boxes is built on government hand outs. And thats just the tip of the iceberg as far as corporate subsidies go. Most of the wealth G.W. Bush accumulated that did not come from his family came from leveraging tax payer money out municipal governments in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex. Corporate welfare is real and the rules allow it. From Washington all the way down to local city halls.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by buckman

I read the bill. Did you? My opinion is based on my believe. You can call it crap if you want. That's your opinion. Granted, it doesn't have as much substance as your response, but again,that's my opinion.

My feeling about the bill and the process is:

It is too based on the believe that the govornment can increase it's size and spend our way out of the current situation.

We just don't have the money!

It is full of earmarks...

The people that will be dolling out the money are selfserving, currupt, hypocrits that stuffed this bill full of everything they tried to pass in the past. This is a point that you fail to except or you are ok with.

The bill was written based on emotion and not economics.


Bottom line.... The process was just plain wrong and this bill is a joke. Thats just my opinion.

So what's your solution rather than just your complaint.

I agree we can't afford to create a larger government, however at this juncture in history in the past, governments normally take action, Keynesian Economics .
Reagan was the one recent exception to the stimulus mantra, amid harsh criticism on the hill Reagan reduced the size of the federal government and cut taxes across the board.


I do agree that tax cuts have proven to invigorate the economy compared to stimulus handouts.

Would you be happier if the government did NOTHING? Sure sounds that way

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by buckman

It works like this. Maybe if you pay less on taxes you can afford to hire someone to clean your studio so you can do what you do best. Maybe that guy on the corner that has no job.

Unfortunately, I think MOST people would take the tax break or what not, and put that money away 'just in case' instead of hiring new people, going out to eat, buying a car, whatever. which I hope will be a valuable lesson learned here; don't exceed your means. I know my wife and I banked the last check we got, and have no illusion of spending it, other than perhaps on a house or downpayment

However... if we CAN make health care cheaper, across the board, then you reduce the cost to the employers, which would probably be a bigger help to the economy, mean while creating jobs to fix the crumbling infrastructure around the country, keeps cops copping and teachers teaching...

Secondly, there has got to be a huge lag between when tax breaks go into effect and when there is a benefit to the economy and jobs. how long would it take for people the realize the tax breaks and turn it into a job or benefit for someone else.

obviously this is my opinion as well, and many have and continue to call it crap

[striperman36]

So how did Reagnanomics turn around the 80-82 financial crapola?

Not that it was anywhere near the magnitude of the 2007-201x D-event

[Crafty Angler]

They're giving aspirin to a cancer patient with the stimulus - it will offer some minor temporary relief but will do little for the root causes of the problem. They're only trying to cure the symptoms for now

They need to let the corporate bailouts come to a screaching halt - lack of acumen and avarice needs to be rewarded with bankruptcy, not TARP and assorted other giveaway funds as a form of welfare to the wealthy.

It will be ugly and unpleasant for all of us but if you want to set it right, I'm afraid you're going to have to take the pain and rebuild with what's left after the smoke clears.

This crew makes the Robber Barons of the late 19th Century look like a group of self-sacrificing philanthropists. And the entire country is about to pay the price.

The saddest part is that it was a broad daylight robbery - and no one stood up on their hind legs to stop it...

[buckman]

Originally Posted by striperman36

So
Would you be happier if the government did NOTHING? Sure sounds that way

YES, I WOULD....and I'm not the only one.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

They're giving aspirin to a cancer patient with the stimulus - it will offer some minor temporary relief but will do little for the root causes of the problem. They're only trying to cure the symptoms for now

They need to let the corporate bailouts come to a screaching halt - lack of acumen and avarice needs to be rewarded with bankruptcy, not TARP and assorted other giveaway funds as a form of welfare to the wealthy.

It will be ugly and unpleasant for all of us but if you want to set it right, I'm afraid you're going to have to take the pain and rebuild with what's left after the smoke clears.

This crew makes the Robber Barons of the late 19th Century look like a group of self-sacrificing philanthropists. And the entire country is about to pay the price.

The saddest part is that it was a broad daylight robbery - and no one stood up on their hind legs to stop it...

Somewhat like the Savings and Loan crash but on a much larger, global scale.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by buckman

YES, I WOULD....and I'm not the only one.

Unfortunately, our elected officials now feel this is their chance to fleece us, yet again.

But the sheep are content to graze , you can't even get a HD Converter certficiate at the moment.

[striperman36]

And if you don't like the stimulus Bill.

Don't take the money!!

That will be the day.........
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...ef=mpstoryview

[RIJIMMY]

even lib wacko critical of stimulus

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...lus/index.html

[buckman]

Originally Posted by striperman36

And if you don't like the stimulus Bill.

Don't take the money!!

That will be the day.........
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...ef=mpstoryview

Do my kids have to pay the bill?

[striperman36]

No, move to Moldavia

[PaulS]

It's funny how the Reps. reps voted against it b/c they can stand on idealogy but many of the Repub. governers who have to balance their budgets are in favor of the bill.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Lower Healthcare Costs: To save not only jobs, but money and lives, we will update and computerize our
healthcare system to cut red tape, prevent medical mistakes, and help reduce healthcare costs by billions of
dollars each year.
! $20 billion for health information technology to prevent medical mistakes, provide better care to patients
and introduce cost-saving efficiencies.
! $4.1 billion to provide for preventative care and to evaluate the most effective healthcare treatments.

I wonder why the ACLU hasn't jumped on this big brother intrusion into our lives. Imagine the government going totally off to the left, completely socialist, even pink maybe. The government will have a list of everyone who isn't healthy. Remember the long march in the movie Soylent Green. Only those affluent people who can afford private health care wouldn't have thier lives intruded upon. Put on too much weight and the health care Nazi comes out from behind the counter yelling, "no health care for you, no see doctor, go away".

[buckman]

Originally Posted by striperman36

No, move to Moldavia

Can I fish for tuna there?

Side note: Do you think the Dow will hit 7000 by the time Obama gives his speach in Denver?

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Can I fish for tuna there?

Side note: Do you think the Dow will hit 7000 by the time Obama gives his speach in Denver?

I think TDF had you pegged...this is about on par with wishing for another 9/11 because it will make Bush look bad.

Rush Limbaugh made a daily habbit out of mocking Liberals for this.

Buck, are you really a Liberal?

-spence

[striperman36]

Excellent Frontline on the Banking Crisis tonight.
Rebroadcast at like 0300 tomorrow for those of you the a Dish-dvr.
Can't say it like George sorry.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I think TDF had you pegged...this is about on par with wishing for another 9/11 because it will make Bush look bad.

Rush Limbaugh made a daily habbit out of mocking Liberals for this.

Buck, are you really a Liberal?

-spence

I don't think asking if the Dow will hit 7000 is on par with wishing thousands dead. IMO

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Excellent Frontline on the Banking Crisis tonight.
Rebroadcast at like 0300 tomorrow for those of you the a Dish-dvr.
Can't say it like George sorry.

I caught it at work and it was excellent - you can watch it in it's entirety at PBS.org - Inside the Meltdown.

They did an incredible job of unraveling and explaining what caused the banking crisis, which is complex in the details - really well done. Interesting perspective on Bernanke, Paulson and Geithner too - it was an eye-opener for me.

Not exactly light viewing but I'd call it a must see - it will give you a deeper understanding of what happened and where things may end up.

You know, I heard the stimulus likened to giving aspirin to a cancer patient - if you watch Inside the Meltdown you'll understand how far the cancer has metasticized in our economy and across the globe - and why...

I'm going to try to stay awake for the 2 AM rebroadcast on GBH 2 - at the very least, I will watch it again tomorrow online.

[striperman36]

Glad at least someone else on this board saw this.
I will be watching it again tonight or tomorrow evening, excellent stuff

Not only does it show how far it spread but how fast and how even unrelated senior officials thought various components of the finance system were.
It seems like a true cancer that spreads through the lymphatic system only appearing elsewhere after the 'supposed' all clear has been sounded.

In our economy its more like we have multiple cancers attacking various parts of the system, all purported to be terminal by those areas under attack.

Banks, manufacturers, state and local government, etc..

[likwid]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Glad at least someone else on this board saw this.
I will be watching it again tonight or tomorrow evening, excellent stuff

Too busy watching reruns of The Daily Show

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

I caught it at work and it was excellent - you can watch it in it's entirety at PBS.org - Inside the Meltdown.

They did an incredible job of unraveling and explaining what caused the banking crisis, which is complex in the details - really well done. Interesting perspective on Bernanke, Paulson and Geithner too - it was an eye-opener for me.

Not exactly light viewing but I'd call it a must see - it will give you a deeper understanding of what happened and where things may end up.

You know, I heard the stimulus likened to giving aspirin to a cancer patient - if you watch Inside the Meltdown you'll understand how far the cancer has metasticized in our economy and across the globe - and why...

I'm going to try to stay awake for the 2 AM rebroadcast on GBH 2 - at the very least, I will watch it again tomorrow online.

When is it showing ? Weds at 2am or Thursday at 2am?