Oh man

[RIJIMMY]

SO Obama is out there blasting 18B in bonues for Wall Street, while ignoreing that this is a significatn compnent of people salary and most of the people, most likely over 95% had nothing to do with the current issues. the bailout Money was used to increase cash in the lending environment, not pay salaries. Yet he feeds this fear mongering of evil wall street.
This guy is setting up for a class war. People who earn and succeed against those who dont. See below, He really thinks the UNIONS are the answer? Has he paid attention to the auto bailout????

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama signed a series of executive orders Friday that he said should "level the playing field" for labor unions in their struggles with management.

Obama also used the occasion at the White House to announce formally a new White House task force on the problems of middle-class Americans. He named Vice President Joe Biden as its chairman.

Union officials say the new orders by Obama will undo Bush administration policies that favored employers over workers. The orders will:

_Require federal contractors to offer jobs to current workers when contracts change.

_Reverse a Bush administration order requiring federal contractors to post notice that workers can limit financial support of unions serving as their exclusive bargaining representatives.

_Prevent federal contractors from being reimbursed for expenses meant to influence workers deciding whether to form a union and engage in collective bargaining.

"We need to level the playing field for workers and the unions that represent their interests," Obama said during a signing ceremony in the East Room of the White House.

"I do not view the labor movement as part of the problem. To me, it's part of the solution," he said. "You cannot have a strong middle class without a strong labor movement."

Signing the executive orders was Obama's second overture to organized labor in as many days. On Thursday, he signed the first bill of his presidency, giving workers more time to sue for wage discrimination.

"It's a new day for workers," said James Hoffa, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, who attended the ceremony with other union leaders. "We finally have a White House that is dedicated to working with us to rebuild our middle class. Hope for the American Dream is being restored."

Of the White House Task Force on Middle Class Working Families, Obama said, "We're not forgetting the poor. They are going to be front and center, because they, too, share our American Dream."

He said his administration wants to make sure low-income people "get a piece" of the American pie "if they're willing to work for it."

"With this task force, we have a single, highly visible group with one single goal: to raise the living standards of the people who are the backbone of this country," Biden said.

Obama set several goals for the task force, including expanding opportunities for education and training; improving the work-family balance; restoring labor standards, including workplace safety; and protecting retirement security.

The president and vice president said the task force will include the secretaries of commerce, education, labor, and health and human services because those Cabinet departments have the most influence on the well-being of the middle class. It also will include White House advisers on the economy, the budget and domestic policy.

Biden pledged that the task force will conduct its business in the open, and announced a Web site, http://www.astrongmiddleclass.gov, for the public to get information. He also announced that the panel's first meeting will be Feb. 27 in Philadelphia and will focus on environmental or "green jobs."

[RIJIMMY]

"With this task force, we have a single, highly visible group with one single goal: to raise the living standards of the people who are the backbone of this country," Biden said.

And you, the person that has already achieved the American dream will now be paying for others to acheive it to! WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

SO Obama is out there blasting 18B in bonues for Wall Street, while ignoreing that this is a significatn compnent of people salary and most of the people, most likely over 95% had nothing to do with the current issues. the bailout Money was used to increase cash in the lending environment, not pay salaries. Yet he feeds this fear mongering of evil wall street.
This guy is setting up for a class war. People who earn and succeed against those who dont. See below, He really thinks the UNIONS are the answer? Has he paid attention to the auto bailout????

I dont think he wants to start a class war, but he does not want the distribution of wealth in this country to look like Mexico or Brazil. Where would you rather be broke, Rio, which one of the highest murder rates in world, or Toronto, home of blue jays and great walleye fishing.

As far as unions are concerned, the UAW is just one chapter in the broader history of unions. Unions were a big part of furnishing the post war middle class boom (as was Government social programs like the GI Bill) and ensuring work place safety standards. One only has to look at China to see the horrendous conditions that are the direct result of the union prohibitions. Almost 6000 coal mining deaths in 2004 and although china produces twice as much coal as we do stateside, death is 4 times as common per worker and 108 times as common per unit output. Unionizing in this country's coal industry has a lot to with this disparity

[Joe]

What you are saying is that the bonuses are really salary in disguise, so they are entitled to them, even on a year when they would have lost their jobs without taxpayer money.
Slap me, I think I agree with Buckman. Hypocrisy is the biggest problem facing society.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

the bailout Money was used to increase cash in the lending environment, not pay salaries.

I don't know if that's really the case. My understanding is that much of the initial bailout (TARP) money was given pretty much without restriction as to how it was to be used.

This is a slippery slope similar to the argument that a saltwater fishing license shouldn't go into the State's General Fund.

While there are companies who have not taken government money giving out legitimate bonusus, there also do appear to be many who could be using tax dollars for them. Considering that the tax money is there to help the entire industry, even if you didn't take government money one would think there should be a more conservative position taken by the entire sector.

This is different money than the hundreds of billions the Fed has been quietly injecting into the markets to keep rates down.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

What you are saying is that the bonuses are really salary in disguise, so they are entitled to them, even on a year when they would have lost their jobs without taxpayer money.
Slap me, I think I agree with Buckman. Hypocrisy is the biggest problem facing society.

entitled, no. Earned, yes.

For example....

A guy leads a major effort restructuring the technolgy trading platform for an investment bank. He pushes his, team, works night and weekends, and comes in on time and under budget. He gets a bonus based on his ability to deliver his goals. These companies pay for performance. If you perform, you get paid.

[RIJIMMY]

Give this a read, here is a highlight -

A few quick facts about Wall Street bonuses. The pretext for the political outrage was the New York comptroller's report this week on the aggregate data for bonuses in 2008. That "irresponsible" bonus pool of $18 billion was for every worker in the New York financial industry, from top dogs to secretaries. This bonus pool fell 44% in 2008, the largest percentage decline in 30 years. The average bonus was $112,000; bonuses typically make up most of an employee's salary on Wall Street. The comptroller estimates that this decline will cost New York State $1 billion in lost tax revenue and New York City $275 million. Both city and state may have to announce layoffs.

What is more, the "Wall Street" of popular and fevered imagination isn't coming back anytime soon, if ever. Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch are gone, kaput. Enough bankers have been ruined or fired to sate class resentments for a lifetime. The remaining big two, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, are no longer formally investment banks but are now under the supervisory control of the Federal Reserve. The Wall Street business model is broken, and not at a particularly opportune moment for the economy.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123336371503735447.html

[Joe]

I'm not referring to a bonus paid to a performing employee, at a solvent firm, in a profitable year.

I'm referring to this year, at an insolvent firm, in a unprofitable year, where taxpayer dollars kept your firm afloat.

Here's my question:
If a firm got TARP money, and used it to pay bonuses - are you ok with that?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

I'm not referring to a bonus paid to a performing employee, at a solvent firm, in a profitable year.

I'm referring to this year, at an insolvent firm, in a unprofitable year, where taxpayer dollars kept your firm afloat.

Here's my question:
If a firm got TARP money, and used it to pay bonuses - are you ok with that?

yes. As in the article I posted, this is ALL employees, secerataries, mail room, managers, etc. This $ helps the economy more than any tax rebate will.

I am also ok with the Big 3 automakers offering bonues for salesmen and dealershiops who have high sales. Do you think that all commissions and bonuses should be stopped by the automakers too?

[Joe]

I'm satisfied with the yes answer. It's very revealing - I'm glad you feel that way.
One could argue that the main reason for the auto bailout was because there was no credit available....but I'm not going to argue that.
Speaking of the WSJ, did you catch Rush Limbaugh's Op-Ed piece in the Wall St Journal on 1/29?

[RIJIMMY]

you're getting hung up on the word bonus as in "extra"
For many, bonus is equal to compensation. It was earned, not extra. These people do not get overtime pay, they dont get travel pay. take away the bonus and many would be making $ way less than their experience and work level. You'd have all sorts of legal and HR issues.

For example Joe - I'm not sure if State Street Bank was part of the bailout, but I spoke to a friend that worked there over the weekend. His team has been killing themselves over the last year for the IBT conversion, many weekend, many long hours. State Street should be paying bonues in March. He and his team are worried that SSB may not pay bonuses this year. They lived up to their end of the deal and are afraid SSB may reneg. Do you think they should just suck it up and be happy they have a job? They did the work, they should get paid.

If these firms say NOW that there will be no 2009 bonus, thats fine. But this was an agreement and the employees delivered on their end the companies should too.

As far as Limbaugh, I have never read or listened to a word he has said.