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Old 08-21-2018, 07:39 AM   #1
Pete F.
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Opiods

Trump is going after China because they cause our drug problem or is it Mexico?
Perhaps he should look closer to home at Big Pharma.
Opiods used to be an inner city problem largely with heroin until 10 to 15 years ago.

Over the past 15 years, the rate of opioid pain reliever (OPR) use in the United States has soared. From 1999 to 2011, consumption of hydrocodone more than doubled and consumption of oxycodone increased by nearly 500%. During the same time frame, the OPR-related overdose death rate nearly quadrupled. According to the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the unprecedented increase in OPR consumption has led to the “worst drug overdose epidemic in [US] history”. Given the magnitude of the problem, in 2014 the CDC added opioid overdose prevention to its list of top five public health challenges.
Another important feature of the opioid addiction epidemic is the relationship between OPR use and heroin use. According to the federal government's National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), 4 out of 5 current heroin users report that their opioid use began with OPRs. Many of these individuals appear to be switching to heroin after becoming addicted to OPRs because heroin is less expensive on the black market. For example, in a recent sample of opioid-addicted individuals who switched from OPRs to heroin, 94% reported doing so because OPRs “were far more expensive and harder to obtain”
Here is the whole report to read and yes, it's not new info
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10...-031914-122957

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Old 08-21-2018, 07:45 AM   #2
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I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that skyrocketing cost of living paired with wage stagnation and continued year after year education cuts are mostly to blame.
When you just barely graduate high school and can’t afford college and a house costs $300,000 which equates to a $1500 a month mortgage, the American dream seems unobtainable, so you want to escape it.
We can point fingers all we want but until people can earn a living and be proud to be able to succeed in life, there will be a drug problem.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:45 AM   #3
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They have been going after pharma and those that prescribe recently, some from Fed level, some local.

This absolutely deserves discussion but how again is this Trump's fault?

But since you asked, a lot of drugs are moved in from Mexico and a LOT of the synthetic opioids are coming from China.

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Old 08-21-2018, 07:47 AM   #4
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Wow, you really are letting this guy live rent free in your head.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-e...ies-1534438160

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Old 08-21-2018, 08:08 AM   #5
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How could Obama let this happen?
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:20 AM   #6
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How could Obama let this happen?
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Bush’s Fault
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:07 AM   #7
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So now that you're interested
I brought this up because there was a painting contractor in Burlington, Vt who was "dealing"
He supplied his employees with drugs.
Sounds bad doesn't it
But think about it, they were showing up for work, gainfully employed, not stealing to get drug money, pretty much being good citizens.
He didn't make them addicts.
What he was doing is illegal, but is it immoral?
Maybe we need to go much further.
https://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...ue-not-a-crime

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Old 08-21-2018, 09:38 AM   #8
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So now Enabling Addicts is an Honorable endevour.

Maybe instead of spending money on drugs to give them, he could have used the money to help them find treatment.

Sorry, I hope the guy rots in jail.

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Old 08-21-2018, 09:49 AM   #9
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I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that skyrocketing cost of living paired with wage stagnation and continued year after year education cuts are mostly to blame.
I think it's more a combination of over prescribing and people generally just zoning out these days. Pills especially aren't hard to get and easy to conceal. Your Dr prescribes them so how bad can it be?

Some years ago I went to the walk in for an injured toe that got infected. Also managed to trigger a gout attack. The Dr ignored the gout which was an easy diagnosis and instead prescribed me a giant bottle of hydrocodone for the pain. With hindsight it was really irresponsible on his part.
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Old 08-21-2018, 10:00 AM   #10
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So now that you're interested
I brought this up because there was a painting contractor in Burlington, Vt who was "dealing"
He supplied his employees with drugs.
Sounds bad doesn't it
But think about it, they were showing up for work, gainfully employed, not stealing to get drug money, pretty much being good citizens.
He didn't make them addicts.
What he was doing is illegal, but is it immoral?
Maybe we need to go much further.
https://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...ue-not-a-crime
With an outlook like this you could be mayor of Chicago.
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Old 08-21-2018, 10:35 AM   #11
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Some years ago I went to the walk in for an injured toe that got infected. Also managed to trigger a gout attack. The Dr ignored the gout which was an easy diagnosis and instead prescribed me a giant bottle of hydrocodone for the pain. With hindsight it was really irresponsible on his part.
That has changed in recent years, now they may give you 6 pills. They are locking it down some now, which is good.

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Old 08-21-2018, 12:03 PM   #12
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Do you realize that in this country it is easier for a doctor to prescribe Oxycodone then Suboxone and Buprenorphine?
We've been thru just say no, the War on Drugs and do you know of more people with issues than 30 years ago?
Some places in the world have been successful, we need to join them.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it

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Old 08-21-2018, 12:07 PM   #13
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I think it's more a combination of over prescribing and people generally just zoning out these days. Pills especially aren't hard to get and easy to conceal. Your Dr prescribes them so how bad can it be?

Some years ago I went to the walk in for an injured toe that got infected. Also managed to trigger a gout attack. The Dr ignored the gout which was an easy diagnosis and instead prescribed me a giant bottle of hydrocodone for the pain. With hindsight it was really irresponsible on his part.
Where are the pills now?
Still sitting in your medicine cabinet?
They should be disposed of

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Old 08-21-2018, 12:33 PM   #14
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Where are the pills now?
hope he didn't give them to someone and then send them up on a ladder and scaffolding to paint or use power tools
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Old 08-21-2018, 12:48 PM   #15
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Where are the pills now?
Still sitting in your medicine cabinet?
They should be disposed of
This was 8 or 10 years ago...it was a big bottle of liquid hydrocodone you could just nurse as you saw fit. It did make the pain go away
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Old 08-21-2018, 12:54 PM   #16
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hope he didn't give them to someone and then send them up on a ladder and scaffolding to paint or use power tools
Well, when they fall they won't feel a thing, then they'll get a script for more, and workman's comp to pay for them.

Sounds like a win-win.....for somebody

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Old 08-21-2018, 12:57 PM   #17
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I'd worry more about a kid, guest, niece or nephew.

Of course not in my family.

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Old 08-21-2018, 01:58 PM   #18
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Collegium Pharmaceutical COLL Develops abuse deterrent pain meds.... In Canton Mass. Worth a look for long term investment....

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Old 08-21-2018, 02:03 PM   #19
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I'd worry more about a kid, guest, niece or nephew.

Of course not in my family.
You mean like the time I found zip-loc full of Vicodin in a bathroom drawer???
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Old 08-21-2018, 02:41 PM   #20
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You mean like the time I found zip-loc full of Vicodin in a bathroom drawer???
Or black beauties?

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Old 08-21-2018, 03:52 PM   #21
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No one cared about the opioid problem until it started killing Rich white kids on the cape and other communities

How do I know this I worked in a SEC35 state prison detox for 20 years and saw the demographic change coming thru the revolving door ... then came the concern prior to that it was city thing and no one gave a #^&#^&#^&#^&
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Old 08-21-2018, 04:29 PM   #22
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No one cared about the opioid problem until it started killing Rich white kids on the cape and other communities

How do I know this I worked in a SEC35 state prison detox for 20 years and saw the demographic change coming thru the revolving door ... then came the concern prior to that it was city thing and no one gave a #^&#^&#^&#^&
Then, I guess, we should be thankful to rich white kids for bringing attention to the problem. Otherwise the poor non-whites would be stuck in #^&#^&#^&#^&.
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Old 08-21-2018, 05:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
So now that you're interested
I brought this up because there was a painting contractor in Burlington, Vt who was "dealing"
He supplied his employees with drugs.
Sounds bad doesn't it
But think about it, they were showing up for work, gainfully employed, not stealing to get drug money, pretty much being good citizens.
He didn't make them addicts.
What he was doing is illegal, but is it immoral?
Maybe we need to go much further.
https://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...ue-not-a-crime

Nope - that is immoral, too. Particularly if it gets people hooked.



Quote:
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I think it's more a combination of over prescribing and people generally just zoning out these days. Pills especially aren't hard to get and easy to conceal. Your Dr prescribes them so how bad can it be?
Not an excuse


Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
Some years ago I went to the walk in for an injured toe that got infected. Also managed to trigger a gout attack. The Dr ignored the gout which was an easy diagnosis and instead prescribed me a giant bottle of hydrocodone for the pain. With hindsight it was really irresponsible on his part.
Well said

Quote:
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Where are the pills now?
Still sitting in your medicine cabinet?
They should be disposed of
Then the fish and clams get hooked - but they can't get pregnant

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
No one cared about the opioid problem until it started killing Rich white kids on the cape and other communities

How do I know this I worked in a SEC35 state prison detox for 20 years and saw the demographic change coming thru the revolving door ... then came the concern prior to that it was city thing and no one gave a #^&#^&#^&#^&
Well Heroine and Opioids have been a problem or a couple centuries. In the past few decades none of the kids I saw get hooked on them were rich. They tended to be poor and if alive are often poorer still

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Old 08-21-2018, 07:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
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No one cared about the opioid problem until it started killing Rich white kids on the cape and other communities

How do I know this I worked in a SEC35 state prison detox for 20 years and saw the demographic change coming thru the revolving door ... then came the concern prior to that it was city thing and no one gave a #^&#^&#^&#^&
To say no one cared about is racist. If these folks who struggled with dependency were minority’s they certainly have family and friends who cared. To call them nobody’s seems a bit harsh. Sometimes it’s not a black and white issue. Sometimes a republican or democrat is not at fault. Unfortunate circumstances have to be dealt with regardless of who holds office.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:50 PM   #25
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Sometimes it’s not a black and white issue. Sometimes a republican or democrat is not at fault.
And just this morning you were joking it was the fault of a black democrat.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:47 PM   #26
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It’s not just low income kids with no guidance. There are plenty of surprised and sad parents out there.
That contractor did not create addicts there were plenty already and treatment is not readily available, it needs to be easier and not cost more than drugs.
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:14 PM   #27
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And just this morning you were joking it was the fault of a black democrat.
That was tongue in cheek Jeff, I thought you would appreciate that.
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:12 AM   #28
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To say no one cared about is racist. If these folks who struggled with dependency were minority’s they certainly have family and friends who cared. To call them nobody’s seems a bit harsh. Sometimes it’s not a black and white issue. Sometimes a republican or democrat is not at fault. Unfortunate circumstances have to be dealt with regardless of who holds office.
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My no one cared comment wasn't towards friends and family I should have been more clear ... But policy's and Money for treatment could be seen as racist along with the public view saw it as a inner city issue when in-fact minorities account for a tiny % of opioid related users in Massachusetts..the couldn't afford oxies or fund the explosion in usage of the pills... and the leap heroin. Over prescribing is a scape goat 90% of users started by stealing someone else's pills its was what kids were doing popping pills , not knowing the side effects )getting hooked ) then an 80 dollar oxy got quickly replaced by a 5 dollar bag of dope ... basic economics


Political pressure only started when voting districts with money who are mostly white started seeing the effects . and did a full frontal press starting on the topic . 6 years late.... the damage has been done all that can be done now is stop new users from picking up ... we used to never have old junkies . but now Narcan has taken all risk out of using now they feel if it goes bad Narcan will save them who needs AA or NA
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:36 AM   #29
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So do you believe that Narcan use should be scrapped and just let these folks perish?
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Old 08-22-2018, 08:22 AM   #30
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But policy's and Money for treatment could be seen as racist along with the public view saw it as a inner city issue when in-fact minorities account for a tiny % of opioid related users in Massachusetts..
This could be seen as racist, that is racist, they are all racist, there is a dog whistle over there, Cops are racist. ICE is racist. CEOs are racist. Income inequality is racist. Opioids are racist.

When EVERYTHING is racist, nothing is.

Dunno, dropping of someone I know for their Soboxone I saw every walk and creed, looked like a frickin Bennetton Commercial from the 80s. But only SOME of them are racists.

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