Washington Post says Trump is 'complicit' in Hurricane Florence

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

first it was global cooling. then global warming. then climate change.

the ice in antarctica is advancing, isn’t it?
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No
https://www.skepticalscience.com/ant...termediate.htm

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I'm leaving at this Jim. Too busy to engage in pointless arguments on the internet.
1. The global cooling argument from the 70's is way over played (see this link for more on that) https://www.skepticalscience.com/What-1970s-science-said-about-global-cooling.html

2. Spence had a good take on this above. Models are not wildly speculative assumptions. This video offers a good explanation on how models are made using historic data and carried into the future. The take away is that the exact prediction of any model is not important, but the overall consensus of these various independent models on increasing levels of CO2 are warming the atmosphere, and in the case of this video, reducing the sea ice cover in the arctic

The geological record provides solid evidence of the implications of warmer worlds, times with higher CO2 and higher sea level than present. Let’s take Sea level rise since we are in the coastal area of New England.

Sea level is rising. Period. Observations and data (NOT MODELS) show it has accelerated within the last few decades and that that is driven by thermal expansion and melting of land based ice related to a warming planet.

Even if you want to conclude that sea level rise is not accelerating, it is rising, and that means that for every area prone to flooding from storms (and sea level rise), that it is not going to get better. How many coastal communities have installed tide gates on storm drains in recent years because low areas are now flooding just on spring tides w/o storm surge? That is largely due to ~1 ft of sea level rise. Now picture 3 -5 feet. The extreme scenarios in S. New England are >10ft.
The degree of how much worse it gets is up for debate. Prudent planning for the next decades to deal with this, rather than sticking fingers in our ears and yelling is short sighted and will make adaptation harder in the future. That isn’t even adding in the increased height of storm surge or potential for more intense or more frequent storms.

Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.

bryan, i run models all day long, to predict insurance losses. in these models, i have tons of historical data to base my assumptions on. if i’m trying to estimate how many auto accidents we will have in RI for every 100 cars we ensure, i can look at the number of accidents per 100 cars for each of the last 50 years. so the models are highly predictive, because there is a credible amount of historical data.

not so with climate change effects. the models
make wildly speculative assumptions, because it’s all brand new. it’s more complicated, with more moving pieces.

the sea is rising, that’s settled. how much if that is due to man, is wildly speculative, because we can’t know what sea labels would have been if man didn’t exist.

it’s very very important stuff, it needs to be researched. but don’t tell me that there aren’t broad assumptions because of the unknowns.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

most people can’t afford solar panels or geothermal systems. i have panels at my house because i wanted to do it, but it’s stupudly expensive.
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I would not advise doing ground source heat pumps in NE, we do not have real warm geothermal here. Your gain over air source will not pay for your investment during the life of the system. If you were in Iceland geothermal is plentiful, in fact they can in some locations just pump hot water out of the ground. Here the soil temperature is roughly equal to the latitude.
An air to air ductless heatpump is typically one of the most economical ways to heat and has one of the lowest installation costs. If you go to this site you can compare costs for different types of fuels and heating systems, based on your energy costs.
https://www.efficiencymaine.com/ener...or-homeowners/
You can do a solar system for 0$ up front here in VT, not sure how the rate structure is in CT.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I would not advise doing ground source heat pumps in NE, we do not have real warm geothermal here. Your gain over air source will not pay for your investment during the life of the system. If you were in Iceland geothermal is plentiful, in fact they can in some locations just pump hot water out of the ground. Here the soil temperature is roughly equal to the latitude.
An air to air ductless heatpump is typically one of the most economical ways to heat and has one of the lowest installation costs. If you go to this site you can compare costs for different types of fuels and heating systems, based on your energy costs.
https://www.efficiencymaine.com/ener...or-homeowners/
You can do a solar system for 0$ up front here in VT, not sure how the rate structure is in CT.

I did my solar with $0 laid out, but I don't save much, as I have to buy the electricity from the solar panel company. Would have been $30k to buy it, which is absurd.

We've also had an issue with birds nesting under there and then dying, so you can make a case I'm not really helping the planet. Had to spend more money to put guards under the panels to prevent bird infestation. Then it might make it harder to sell my house, because you can only do a 25 year lease. It's not NEARLY as user friendly as it could be.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I know Trump isn't responsible for a lot of that John come on really, but he owns his big fat mouth and constant denial that the death tolls reported in Puerto Rico are false. Even yesterday instead of taking the high road, a road he almost never travels down, he continued to state the few additional deaths over the initial reports are due to the hurricanes, in fact he spun it as if the Dems were responsible for the reporting to make him look bad. So who do you believe, someone who is living it and responsible for their citizens well being, or a guy who appears to be looking for the Guinness Book of Record for the most lies or miss truths spoken be any living being in a year?

He also owns his administrations policy decisions which will do nothing to curb global warming, in fact he really has no fear of global warming, because as you all know that's fake news. Global warming to him is like the reports that over 3000 died in Puerto Rico, or that his inauguration crowd was smaller than most recent presidents, or that he never knew Cohen paid off a porn star.

He spends is mornings watching Fox and tweeting more lies and hurtful messaging, I had little respect for this guy from the start and I can't wait until he is voted out or kicked to the curb.

Haha, Bob.

Trump, in his really crappy and often wrong way, is saying that the media frequently twists the truth to make him look bad. He is often correct. The media then runs with the crap he spews in his tweets, and they are then often correct.

Neither group is living in the land of honesty.

Lots of news and opnion outlets are blaming Trump and the FedGov's response to the PR hurricane disaster. The truth is that lots of things went right and lots wrong. If you (general you not Bob you ; ) ) are unwilling to wade into actual assessments and AAR.

I have seen enough inaccurate, biased, and opportunistic reporting RE PR/Maria to understand some of Trump's reactions to this.

The whining class however does not. They spun it while people died.

Here: Dig into the Executive Summary commissioned by PR regarding the casualties from Maria. PR was not prepared.

https://publichealth.gwu.edu/sites/d...rto%20Rico.pdf

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I did my solar with $0 laid out, but I don't save much, as I have to buy the electricity from the solar panel company. Would have been $30k to buy it, which is absurd.

We've also had an issue with birds nesting under there and then dying, so you can make a case I'm not really helping the planet. Had to spend more money to put guards under the panels to prevent bird infestation. Then it might make it harder to sell my house, because you can only do a 25 year lease. It's not NEARLY as user friendly as it could be.

So you are saving money (and possibly the planet) and you think it should or could be easier. Sounds like a business opportunity. You could even recommend the bird guards for a slight additional cost.
How many panels do you have? I'm wondering how prices compare to VT

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Lots of news and opnion outlets are blaming Trump and the FedGov's response to the PR hurricane disaster. The truth is that lots of things went right and lots wrong. If you (general you not Bob you ; ) ) are unwilling to wade into actual assessments and AAR.

Part of being a strong leader is recognizing the shortcomings for what they are and pushing everyone forward to higher ground. A sober assessment means little when the man ultimately responsible for catalyzing change is more concerned about his own appearance than the well being of those who are under his wing.

The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

So you are saving money (and possibly the planet) and you think it should or could be easier. Sounds like a business opportunity. You could even recommend the bird guards for a slight additional cost.
How many panels do you have? I'm wondering how prices compare to VT

I'm saving a tiny bit of money, and having to deal with dead baby birds all over my patio. It may (who knows) also make it harder to sell my house, could make it much harder.

I'm no engineer, nor am I an entrepeneur.

Not sure how many panels, it covers both sides of my roof, which is very large system by CT standards. But we use a ton of electricity (have a pool with a pump and an electric heater). Two summers ago, before I got the panels, my electric bill for the month of August was $550. That is not a typo. My wife and kids are home running the central A/C full bore, and the pool pump and heater really suck up the juice.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

A sober assessment means little when the man ultimately responsible for catalyzing change is more concerned about his own appearance than the well being of those who are under his wing.

The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump.

As for caring for those under his wing, I refer you to the moment in the SOTU when he announced that black unemployment was at an all time low. Please note which side celebrated that fact, and which side was made miserable by that fact. It appears your wish that leaders show concern for the rank-and-file, is quite selective.

"The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump"

Agreed.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

Part of being a strong leader is recognizing the shortcomings for what they are and pushing everyone forward to higher ground. A sober assessment means little when the man ultimately responsible for catalyzing change is more concerned about his own appearance than the well being of those who are under his wing.

The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump.

Oh I agree he is a horrible leader, likely not as bad as you think he is. But I can understand SOME of what he is trying and failing to say because SOME of the facts support him and what he is saying. But the outrage mob can't get past that.

This is where I think out country is now broken, maybe irreparably.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

As for caring for those under his wing, I refer you to the moment in the SOTU when he announced that black unemployment was at an all time low. Please note which side celebrated that fact, and which side was made miserable by that fact. It appears your wish that leaders show concern for the rank-and-file, is quite selective.

"The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump"

Agreed.

Don't they all

Last night marked President Barack Obama's eighth and final State of the Union address (full text here), a historic moment for the United States and a huge personal achievement for the embattled president, who has faced gun violence, terrorism, a flailing economy, and a hostile Congress during his two terms in office.

That hostile Congress was out in full colors last night, displaying a shocking level of disrespect for the Commander in Chief, and Speaker Ryan, who remained largely inert on the rostrum behind the president, was first in line — while even the most reluctant of his Republican fellows got up to applaud for lines supporting veterans, the "cancer moonshot," and American military strength, Ryan at one point actually twiddled his thumbs. His continual anxious shifting, on display to the nation, also included moves like crossing his legs, adjusting his jacket, fiddling with his ear, and wringing his hands. Perhaps he just really needed to tinkle.

He also — or, rather, his interns and staff — tweeted during the State of the Union with a line of commentary demonstrating his sheer level of disdain for the president.

He wasn't the only one. While the GOP isn't required to like the State of the Union, and is in fact encouraged to respond with a rebuttal — provided this year by South Carolina governor Nikki Haley — a modicum of respect is a reasonable expectation in the halls of Congress, and the behaviors seen on display last night were nothing short of childish.


Similarly, large swaths of the GOP chose to remain seated with increasingly bored expressions — some even appeared to nod off — during the speech, including during segments that would have provoked thunderous GOP applause had they come from a Republican president. Instead, they evidently so greatly feared appearing supportive of anything coming out of the president's mouth that they opted to sit still through the president's commentary on issues like better benefits and support for military and veterans, bootstrapping recommendations to work harder in order to achieve dreams, and improving conditions for business, all popular GOP topics. We couldn't expect them to stand up for the class war segment of the evening or their sound spanking on failure to act on Daesh and curbing Islamophobic sentiment, but come on, they couldn't rise for curing cancer?

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

But I can understand SOME of what he is trying and failing to say because SOME of the facts support him and what he is saying. But the outrage mob can't get past that.

His issue is he forfeits the benefit of doubt via his own behavior. I can't imaging he wasn't aware of the PR hit Bush took over his lack of focus on Katrina. Sure, a lot of the challenges he inherited but you mix up his rampant bigotry towards hispanics, the paper towel tossing, his insistence that this was the best response ever and to top it all off dismissing nearly 3,000 dead Americans on the eve of a massive storm...

Sorry, but the press isn't making this up or even being unfair. They're just reporting a train wreck for what it is.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

This is where I think out country is now broken, maybe irreparably.

this ^^^^^

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Sorry, but the press isn't making this up or even being unfair. They're just reporting a train wreck for what it is.

CNN just enthusiastically called the November mid-term elections for the democrats...based on polling .....in September

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

this ^^^^^

I thought it was a pro trump hurricane party with free assault rifles, MacDonalds and dancing girls
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Don't they all

Last night marked President Barack Obama's eighth and final State of the Union address (full text here), a historic moment for the United States and a huge personal achievement for the embattled president, who has faced gun violence, terrorism, a flailing economy, and a hostile Congress during his two terms in office.

That hostile Congress was out in full colors last night, displaying a shocking level of disrespect for the Commander in Chief, and Speaker Ryan, who remained largely inert on the rostrum behind the president, was first in line — while even the most reluctant of his Republican fellows got up to applaud for lines supporting veterans, the "cancer moonshot," and American military strength, Ryan at one point actually twiddled his thumbs. His continual anxious shifting, on display to the nation, also included moves like crossing his legs, adjusting his jacket, fiddling with his ear, and wringing his hands. Perhaps he just really needed to tinkle.

He also — or, rather, his interns and staff — tweeted during the State of the Union with a line of commentary demonstrating his sheer level of disdain for the president.

He wasn't the only one. While the GOP isn't required to like the State of the Union, and is in fact encouraged to respond with a rebuttal — provided this year by South Carolina governor Nikki Haley — a modicum of respect is a reasonable expectation in the halls of Congress, and the behaviors seen on display last night were nothing short of childish.


Similarly, large swaths of the GOP chose to remain seated with increasingly bored expressions — some even appeared to nod off — during the speech, including during segments that would have provoked thunderous GOP applause had they come from a Republican president. Instead, they evidently so greatly feared appearing supportive of anything coming out of the president's mouth that they opted to sit still through the president's commentary on issues like better benefits and support for military and veterans, bootstrapping recommendations to work harder in order to achieve dreams, and improving conditions for business, all popular GOP topics. We couldn't expect them to stand up for the class war segment of the evening or their sound spanking on failure to act on Daesh and curbing Islamophobic sentiment, but come on, they couldn't rise for curing cancer?

"Ryan at one point actually twiddled his thumbs. His continual anxious shifting, on display to the nation, also included moves like crossing his legs, adjusting his jacket, fiddling with his ear, and wringing his hands. Perhaps he just really needed to tinkle."

Your source is mocking Ryan because he couldn't sit still. That's some source of news, boy...

Paul Ryan is a softie, not a political attack dog. You wont hear that on whatever godforsaken place you got this crap.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

His issue is he forfeits the benefit of doubt via his own behavior. I can't imaging he wasn't aware of the PR hit Bush took over his lack of focus on Katrina. Sure, a lot of the challenges he inherited but you mix up his rampant bigotry towards hispanics, the paper towel tossing, his insistence that this was the best response ever and to top it all off dismissing nearly 3,000 dead Americans on the eve of a massive storm...

Sorry, but the press isn't making this up or even being unfair. They're just reporting a train wreck for what it is.

FEMA isn't a first responder, isn't designed to be, can never be. The problem in PR was the same problem in New Orleans during Katrina. An amazingly incompetent and disastrously corrupt local government. LOCAL. The effectiveness of preventing these storms from being disasters is determined locally, not in Washington DC. Remember the footage from post Katrina, all those school buses underwater, that could/should have been used to get locals out of there ahead of time.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

this ^^^^^

My favorite since he got elected. A college professor, who you would assume isn't an obviously deranged individual - shot himself to protest the Trump presidency. Shot himself.

Unless this is a hoax story, which you almost think it has to be.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

SOME of the facts support him and what he is saying. But the outrage mob can't get past that.

This is where I think out country is now broken, maybe irreparably.

Spot on, John.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

FEMA isn't a first responder, isn't designed to be, can never be. The problem in PR was the same problem in New Orleans during Katrina. An amazingly incompetent and disastrously corrupt local government. LOCAL. The effectiveness of preventing these storms from being disasters is determined locally, not in Washington DC. Remember the footage from post Katrina, all those school buses underwater, that could/should have been used to get locals out of there ahead of time.

New Orleans local officials certainly could have done a better job, as could have FEMA, but the primary reason Katrina was such a disaster was due to massive levy failure which is the responsibility of the federal government.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

New Orleans local officials certainly could have done a better job, as could have FEMA, but the primary reason Katrina was such a disaster was due to massive levy failure which is the responsibility of the federal government.

true about who constructed the levies. but no one should have been there. they had a weeks notice.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Ryan at one point actually twiddled his thumbs. His continual anxious shifting, on display to the nation, also included moves like crossing his legs, adjusting his jacket, fiddling with his ear, and wringing his hands. Perhaps he just really needed to tinkle."

Your source is mocking Ryan because he couldn't sit still. That's some source of news, boy...

Paul Ryan is a softie, not a political attack dog. You wont hear that on whatever godforsaken place you got this crap.

Yes, I know God Loves Trump Pence and everyone else is godforsaken
When the republicans sat in Obama's last SOTU that was fine, but you try and play the race card when the dems sit during Trumps.
Unemployment has gone down less during Trump than during Obama, basic math from 10 to 5 is more than 5 to 4 but that is the greatest ever, all praise Trump
He's got you conned

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

His issue is he forfeits the benefit of doubt via his own behavior. I can't imaging he wasn't aware of the PR hit Bush took over his lack of focus on Katrina. Sure, a lot of the challenges he inherited but you mix up his rampant bigotry towards hispanics, the paper towel tossing, his insistence that this was the best response ever and to top it all off dismissing nearly 3,000 dead Americans on the eve of a massive storm...

Sorry, but the press isn't making this up or even being unfair. They're just reporting a train wreck for what it is.

I've read some of the whining class reports on this, things like how Hillary got things in gear by shaming Trump (USNS Comfort, etc) except that is not how it happened. The DOD / Navy ramped up hard for Puerto Rico (many after just finishing an 8+ month deployment) to got there and help that faltering (before the hurricane) state.

But facts don't matter because Trump forfeits any is what you are saying. But it's OK since it has become part of the allowable Zeitgeist ...

Originally Posted by scottw

this ^^^^^

Thanks for completing the B side to my we ain'tgonnafixit thoughts

Originally Posted by spence

New Orleans local officials certainly could have done a better job, as could have FEMA, but the primary reason Katrina was such a disaster was due to massive levy failure which is the responsibility of the federal government.

You mean Congress's fault for decades underfunding that, right?

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

You mean Congress's fault for decades underfunding that, right?

It's another failure mode but an obvious one and puts tremendous pressure on local officials trying to balance safety with undue burden on their constituents. The Gov called for disaster assistance in advance and FEMA dropped the ball for several days resulting in a delayed response.

As for Jim's image of flooded school buses, give me a break. It's a picture, not an analysis.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

It's another failure mode but an obvious one and puts tremendous pressure on local officials trying to balance safety with undue burden on their constituents. The Gov called for disaster assistance in advance and FEMA dropped the ball for several days resulting in a delayed response.

As for Jim's image of flooded school buses, give me a break. It's a picture, not an analysis.

it’s not just a picture. there is a plan written down in new orleans, those buses are supposed to be used to evacuate the poor in event of a hurucane. they had several days to enact that plan, but couldn’t pull it off. once bobby jindal was governor, when the next major hurricane hit, everyone was out. the difference, was competence in local leadership.

not just a picture, it most certainly is an analysis. you just don’t happen to like what the analysis says, because you aren’t capable of saying that the democratic mayor and governor, were pathetic. sobwas fema by the way, i could have driven water down there faster than they got it there, no excuse for that either. see, i can admit when my side blows it.


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[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.

I'd note that I'm the only one who provided an example of what he asked for and was told to f--off....

typical democrat no surprise

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Thanks for completing the B side to my we ain'tgonnafixit thoughts

drowning them might be a little harsh....I'm for deporting them

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by scottw

I'd note that I'm the only one who provided an example of what he asked for and was told to f--off....

typical democrat no surprise

Again, I am not wasting the time wading into this here. We have rehashed the same arguments about models with Jim and I am not engaging. There are older posts about it, and I would just end up saying the same basic stuff.

Yes, you did post an example... You edited that post after just writing 'consensus, yawn' and admittedly, I didn't see it. After I posted, I saw your rant about government and then was off the forum the rest of the day.

You didn't post something to defend Jim's point anyways. A 2018 paper talking about the implications of 2deg C warming, which is a very reasonable outcome this century, is not a case where a projection was wrong.

Have a good day guys. May the continued circle-jerk be profound for you....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Yes, I know God Loves Trump Pence and everyone else is godforsaken
When the republicans sat in Obama's last SOTU that was fine, but you try and play the race card when the dems sit during Trumps.
Unemployment has gone down less during Trump than during Obama, basic math from 10 to 5 is more than 5 to 4 but that is the greatest ever, all praise Trump
He's got you conned

Pete, you posted an article attacking Ryan because during a (90 minute?) speech, he didn't sit absolutely still. Sorry, that's a new source that can never be trusted to report on the time of the sunrise.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Have a good day guys. May the continued circle-jerk be profound for you....

geez get a grip...it's amusement...if you think you are going to solve the world's problems HERE....you really need some help