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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
10-02-2018, 09:38 AM
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#1
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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A simple question
What choices, if any, have you made in your life so that you would not be sexually assaulted?
Now ask your wife, sister, mother or daughter that question.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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10-02-2018, 09:42 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
A simple question
What choices, if any, have you made in your life so that you would not be sexually assaulted?
Now ask your wife, sister, mother or daughter that question.
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women have it rough, no question.
Nonetheless, an accusation isn’t evidence.
ask your sons what they are doing to prevent being falsely accused of something which is almost impossible to disprove. there are two sides to this, two people involved. Both deserve consideration, not just the one which serves your agenda.
have you noticed that in the statues of lady justice, she’s always blindfolded? Do you know the purpose of the blindfold? Gender doesnt imply credibility.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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10-02-2018, 10:09 AM
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#3
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
women have it rough, no question.
Nonetheless, an accusation isn’t evidence.
ask your sons what they are doing to prevent being falsely accused of something which is almost impossible to disprove. there are two sides to this, two people involved. Both deserve consideration, not just the one which serves your agenda.
have you noticed that in the statues of lady justice, she’s always blindfolded? Do you know the purpose of the blindfold? Gender doesnt imply credibility.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Conflating Sexual Assault with False Accusations is a great methodology for reducing the importance of women being assaulted.
I'll play that game.
How many things have you done in your life so that you were not falsely accused of Sexual Assault?
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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10-02-2018, 10:34 AM
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#4
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
How many things have you done in your life so that you were not falsely accused of Sexual Assault?
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What can you do? Its false so its a lie, there is nothing anybody can do to stop somebody from lying.
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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10-02-2018, 10:58 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Conflating Sexual Assault with False Accusations is a great methodology for reducing the importance of women being assaulted.
I'll play that game.
How many things have you done in your life so that you were not falsely accused of Sexual Assault?
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"Conflating Sexual Assault with False Accusations is a great methodology for reducing the importance of women being assaulted.
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Only a thoughtless person says that mentioning one, is necessarily conflating it with the other. I said both parties are deserving of consideration.
"How many things have you done in your life so that you were not falsely accused of Sexual Assault"
Not much you can do.
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10-02-2018, 10:13 AM
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#6
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,395
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Ford was wrong thinking that she could keep this from getting out, DC could use an army of plumbers to plug all the leaks on both sides of the aisle. Feinstein on receipt of the letter should have reached out to Ford and insisted for her cooperation if she was that concerned about his confirmation. Clearly this should have come out on receipt or at least concerns should have been raised, even if you couldn't put a name to the accusations.
The where is the evidence argument is crap, someone please tell me what kind of evidence exists in a sexual assault case, not like they had smart phones back then and were putting it out on YouTube. I'm sure the thousands of women and boys out there who come forward later in life would be so happy at the outpouring of support and empathy. I would also suggest that a victim of this type of assault isn't ever going to forget who did it, I'm not buying into her mistaking him for someone else.
I was a skinny kid growing up in high school and I can remember every single person by first and last name who bullied me and caused me severe emotional distress. Do I remember the exact day, date or event those traumas happened, no I don't; but I remember vividly who the F-heads were. Point is when anyone experiences severe trauma at the hands of another, you don't EVER forget their faces or their names.
I have empathy for her, for him (if proven innocent of the charges) and the families of both. Public office is not for the weak of heart, but this isn't some low level cabinet post and these are serious charges and speak to his character. I'm not as forgiving as some might be of what might have happened when the man was 17, because at 17 you should be responsible for your behavior; almost everyone on this board would be held accountable at that age.
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10-02-2018, 10:32 AM
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#7
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
I have empathy for her, for him (if proven innocent of the charges) and the families of both.
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Therein lies the problem, he should need to be proven guilty, not proven innocent. But that's not how things work these days.
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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10-02-2018, 10:55 AM
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#8
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Therein lies the problem, he should need to be proven guilty, not proven innocent. But that's not how things work these days.
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This is a Senate hearing, not a court of law.
He will not be sentenced to anything here, only rewarded if he is confirmed.
Brent Kavanaugh is a lawyer and a very experienced washington politician, he knows exactly what game he is playing and what the stakes are, he played this game himself for years.
One could say that this is retribution for Merrick Garland, but there were a hundred other federal judicial positions left unfilled by the republican congress during Obama's last two years. It is a political game for control of the third branch of the federal government, make no mistake about it. It has very little to do with voters and their choices, far more to do with money and power.
Neither side is without guilt here, Flake said if he was running he could not have delayed the vote. There would have been political consequences that he could not have withstood. Is that acceptable?
I think without term and contribution limits this will never end.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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10-02-2018, 11:07 AM
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#9
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
This is a Senate hearing, not a court of law.
He will not be sentenced to anything here, only rewarded if he is confirmed.
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So What....
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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10-02-2018, 11:22 AM
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#10
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
So What....
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Brent Kavanaugh is a lawyer and a very experienced washington politician, he knows exactly what game he is playing and what the stakes are, he played this game himself for years.
Through that network, Kavanaugh was mentored by D.C. Appeals Court Judge Laurence Silberman, known among his colleagues for planting leaks in the press for partisan advantage.
When, as I came to know, Kavanaugh took on the role of designated leaker to the press of sensitive information from Starr's operation, we all laughed that Larry had taught him well. (Of course, that sort of political opportunism by a prosecutor is at best unethical, if not illegal.)
But the cabal's godfather was Ted Olson, the then-future solicitor general for George W. Bush and now a sainted figure of the GOP establishment (and of some liberals for his role in legalizing same-sex marriage). Olson had a largely hidden role as a consigliere to the "Arkansas Project" — a multi-million dollar dirt-digging operation on the Clintons, funded by the eccentric right-wing billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife and run through The American Spectator magazine, where I worked at the time.
Both Ted and Brett had what one could only be called an unhealthy obsession with the Clintons — especially Hillary. While Ted was pushing through the Arkansas Project conspiracy theories claiming that Clinton White House lawyer and Hillary friend Vincent Foster was murdered (he committed suicide), Brett was costing taxpayers millions by peddling the same garbage at Starr's office.
A detailed analysis of Kavanaugh's own notes from the Starr Investigation reveals he was cherry-picking random bits of information from the Starr investigation — as well as the multiple previous investigations — attempting vainly to legitimize wild right-wing conspiracies. For years he chased down each one of them without regard to the emotional cost to Foster’s family and friends, or even common decency.
Kavanaugh was not a dispassionate finder of fact but rather an engineer of a political smear campaign. And after decades of that, he expects people to believe he's changed his stripes.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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10-02-2018, 11:15 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
Ford was wrong thinking that she could keep this from getting out, DC could use an army of plumbers to plug all the leaks on both sides of the aisle. Feinstein on receipt of the letter should have reached out to Ford and insisted for her cooperation if she was that concerned about his confirmation. Clearly this should have come out on receipt or at least concerns should have been raised, even if you couldn't put a name to the accusations.
The where is the evidence argument is crap, someone please tell me what kind of evidence exists in a sexual assault case, not like they had smart phones back then and were putting it out on YouTube. I'm sure the thousands of women and boys out there who come forward later in life would be so happy at the outpouring of support and empathy. I would also suggest that a victim of this type of assault isn't ever going to forget who did it, I'm not buying into her mistaking him for someone else.
I was a skinny kid growing up in high school and I can remember every single person by first and last name who bullied me and caused me severe emotional distress. Do I remember the exact day, date or event those traumas happened, no I don't; but I remember vividly who the F-heads were. Point is when anyone experiences severe trauma at the hands of another, you don't EVER forget their faces or their names.
I have empathy for her, for him (if proven innocent of the charges) and the families of both. Public office is not for the weak of heart, but this isn't some low level cabinet post and these are serious charges and speak to his character. I'm not as forgiving as some might be of what might have happened when the man was 17, because at 17 you should be responsible for your behavior; almost everyone on this board would be held accountable at that age.
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"The where is the evidence argument is crap"
The hell it is.
"what kind of evidence exists in a sexual assault case"
In cases of assault, there can be all manner of physical evidence. In cases of harassment, usually not so much. It's a tough problem, the common lack of evidence. I don't think the solution is to abandon the presumption of evidence.
Al Sharpton falsely accused white cops of rape. The Duke lacrosse players were falsely accused of rape. Rolling Stone falsely accused a UVA student of rape.
This doesn't mean that all accusers of lying, nor does it mean that the guilty don't deserve severe punishment. But it does mean, that especially in this political climate where nothing matters except winning (especially on the left), that you need more than an accusation.
"I'm not buying into her mistaking him for someone else. "
You don't have to buy it. You just have to admit that there's no proof. She lied about her fear of flying. All 4 witnesses she put there, including a woman who has been a lifelong friend, refuse to corroborate her story. That's evidence. Evidence that she's mistaken, or perhaps lying, I can't know.
" can remember every single person by first and last name who bullied me and caused me severe emotional distress."
So can I. I can also point to cases, as I have done, where people were falsely accused, often for liberal political gain. The fact that you and I can remember the names of our tormentors, means absolutely nothing in this case. You aren't her, neither am I.
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