Human caravan

[Sea Dangles]

Why do these folks want to come to the land of oppression? Just in time for elections too,nothing to see or more than coincidence:::::

[spence]

How about because they’re desperate to flee violence. What would you do if it was your kids? How much Kool Aid have you drank this week?
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[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by spence

How about because they’re desperate to flee violence. What would you do if it was your kids? How much Kool Aid have you drank this week?
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How many are you taking in your home since you are all for it ???
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

How about because they’re desperate to flee violence. What would you do if it was your kids? How much Kool Aid have you drank this week?
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If they're seeking asylum as refugees, by UN law they must do so in the first country they enter, which, in this case, would be Mexico. They should be stopped at our border and returned to Mexico for the Asylum process. https://cis.org/Cadman/Why-Shouldnt-...-Asylum-Mexico

On the other hand, instead of being generous to 7-10 thousand at a time, we should just go ahead and import the entire populations of Honduras and Guatemala. That would finally take care of the reputedly serious problems for the millions of people that need to escape those dangerous hell holes where the people are starved and murdered and raped and enslaved (though they look pretty well fed in the photos and videos and must be in pretty good health to trek on such a long journey on foot, and they should, you know, for good and neighborly optics, wave American flags instead of those of the place from whence they are trying to escape and maybe not have signs and shouts that sound a bit threatening and demanding which might upset a little bit our fine folks here).

So doing that we would also solve our continuous problem of having to deal with caravans and coyotes and other pesky problems that politicians use as a wedge issue. And we could seriously virtue signal to the rest of the world that we are truly a compassionate people. And then the world would truly love us.

Maybe we could take in all the Mexicans too . . . and the Venezuelans . . . and

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

How about because they’re desperate to flee violence. What would you do if it was your kids? How much Kool Aid have you drank this week?
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I can't imagine the desperation some of these people feel who are born into the worst places on the planet. But the sad fact is, we cannot come close to taking in everyone whose lives would be better here, we cannot come close to doing that. Do you agree?

What we can do, and should do, is work to make their home countries, less awful. I'm pretty sure that's what the UN was supposed to be for, maybe we can remind them of that.

Once again rather than honestly admit the facts, the left (you in this case) immediately portray those who disagree with you, as being hatemongers who have no empathy for these people. It's not remotely true. Right now, there are people waiting in line in other crappy places, waiting for their chance to come legally.

[Got Stripers]

I think anyone believing this is a plot and organized for the mid terms has clearly been wearing a tin foil hat far too tightly. I'd also agree Mexico should be the country stepping up to offer asylum to these people.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I think anyone believing this is a plot and organized for the mid terms has clearly been wearing a tin foil hat far too tightly. I'd also agree Mexico should be the country stepping up to offer asylum to these people.

By taking on thousands of refugees, however, Mexico is relieving the burden on the overloaded U.S. courts. Mexico also detains large numbers of undocumented Central Americans who are not applying for refugee status here, and deports them back to their home countries. In fiscal year 2017, Mexico deported more than 94,000 Central Americans – even more than the 74,000 deported from the United States in the same time, according to figures from the Migration Policy Institute cited by the newspaper Reforma.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

By taking on thousands of refugees, however, Mexico is relieving the burden on the overloaded U.S. courts. Mexico also detains large numbers of undocumented Central Americans who are not applying for refugee status here, and deports them back to their home countries. In fiscal year 2017, Mexico deported more than 94,000 Central Americans – even more than the 74,000 deported from the United States in the same time, according to figures from the Migration Policy Institute cited by the newspaper Reforma.

From what you say here, it is apparent that Mexico could easily send the Central American caravan back to their homes. Why does Mexico allow them in their country? I've read that sympathetic Mexicans have been helping and cheering on the growing caravan as it continues north. But their sympathy doesn't seem to extend to offering the caravan sanctuary in Mexico.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I think anyone believing this is a plot and organized for the mid terms has clearly been wearing a tin foil hat far too tightly. I'd also agree Mexico should be the country stepping up to offer asylum to these people.

and i think if you feel this has nothing to do with politics, you have your head in the sand. who is feeding these people along the way? i don’t see anyone carrying a months supply of food.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

and i think if you feel this has nothing to do with politics, you have your head in the sand. who is feeding these people along the way? i don’t see anyone carrying a months supply of food.
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It's pretty interesting how it started

https://www.thedailybeast.com/forget...gan?ref=scroll

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

and i think if you feel this has nothing to do with politics, you have your head in the sand. who is feeding these people along the way? i don’t see anyone carrying a months supply of food.
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If anyone's feeding them, it's likely the Mexican government, hoping they stay strong and truck right on thru to the US border so they don't have to deal with them.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

and i think if you feel this has nothing to do with politics, you have your head in the sand. who is feeding these people along the way? i don’t see anyone carrying a months supply of food.

Who do you think are feeding them along the way?? Compassionate people would be my 1st locals churches..aid groups A hard concept for some to imagine



no one is denying that these people need help. but what liberals
don’t seem to grasp, is that we can’t take them all. we don’t have the space or the money.

Not that we should taken them all in.. but what you said not surprising is just not true ... We do have the space and the money.. not sure how that has any bearing on the topic

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[/size]

jim Trump's response has everything to do do with politics, you have your head in the sand. when it comes to who you think is using it politically

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I can't imagine the desperation some of these people feel who are born into the worst places on the planet. But the sad fact is, we cannot come close to taking in everyone whose lives would be better here, we cannot come close to doing that. Do you agree?

What we can do, and should do, is work to make their home countries, less awful. I'm pretty sure that's what the UN was supposed to be for, maybe we can remind them of that.

Once again rather than honestly admit the facts, the left (you in this case) immediately portray those who disagree with you, as being hatemongers who have no empathy for these people. It's not remotely true. Right now, there are people waiting in line in other crappy places, waiting for their chance to come legally.

@realDonaldTrump
Follow Follow @realDonaldTrump
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Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador were not able to do the job of stopping people from leaving their country and coming illegally to the U.S. We will now begin cutting off, or substantially reducing, the massive foreign aid routinely given to them.

5:57 AM - 22 Oct 2018

[Sea Dangles]

My oldest survived spring break in Mexico!

Seriously Jeff, I don’t drink kook aid. Don’t you find the timing of this spontaneous caravan curious? Do you think these folks have read about Chicago?
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[wdmso]

More conspiracy theories .. so to go along with it rather than it being a Dem plot How about a Republican plot

It seems to be a convent timing for the midterms to motivate Trumps base And give him a topic Tweet about .. and to show them how tough he is and his supports have run with it its evident here


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
The Caravans are a disgrace to the Democrat Party. Change the immigration laws NOW!

3:14 PM - Oct 21, 2018


Trump on migrant caravan: 'It's not happening on my watch'Trump claims Democrats ‘allowed’ migrant caravan


Even Fox Trumps state news network is running stories about when the will arrive near election day as if they're going to vote

Louie Gohmert: ‘Perhaps Soros’ is ‘Funding’ Caravan for Midterms

suspected letter bomb found at the home of billionaire businessman George Soros Who could have sent it? the Proud Boys ?


Again classic Republican fear mongering

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

More conspiracy theories .. so to go along with it rather than it being a Dem plot How about a Republican plot

this is accurate...trump and the republicans have encouraged and organized thousands of central americans to march to our southern border, funding them the entire way so that they can push their way across our border and demand acceptance regardless of how many others are waiting to enter the country through legal means....this will cause the base to turn out in big numbers in november, trump and the republicans will keep the house and senate, get a couple more supreme court judges and build a beautiful wall along our southern border....BRILLIANT!!!

[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

My oldest survived spring break in Mexico!

Seriously Jeff, I don’t drink kook aid. Don’t you find the timing of this spontaneous caravan curious? Do you think these folks have read about Chicago?
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So based on zero evidence you're willing to believe the ranting of a pathological liar. That's irrational and it makes little sense. Why would Democrats want to inflame the signature issue that got Trump's base out to vote in 2016?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

So based on zero evidence you're willing to believe the ranting of a pathological liar. That's irrational and it makes little sense. Why would Democrats want to inflame the signature issue that got Trump's base out to vote in 2016?

It's not zero evidence that this is happening before a big midterm. Looking at it through a political lens, I don't see this as a win for the left unless the US military kills them all at the border.

Who is feeding them? The photos I see, sure don't seem to show most of them carrying a month's worth of food and water. That's a sincere question, I'm not saying George Soros is doing it. A lot of them seem to be carrying nothing.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Why would Democrats want to inflame the signature issue that got Trump's base out to vote in 2016?

because as they displayed though the Kavanaugh hearing and aftermath...they aren't very bright

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

So based on zero evidence you're willing to believe the ranting of a pathological liar. That's irrational and it makes little sense. Why would Democrats want to inflame the signature issue that got Trump's base out to vote in 2016?

Jeff,remind me again of how much evidence was provided against judge Kavanaugh for you to assume his guilt. Yup,thought so.
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[Pete F.]

Here is a fairly non partisan look at what has and is occuring in Central America and why people are fleeing.

Tens of thousands of Salvadorans, Guatemalans, and Hondurans, many of them unaccompanied minors, have arrived in the United States in recent years, seeking asylum from the region’s skyrocketing violence. Their countries, which form a region known as the Northern Triangle, were rocked by civil wars in the 1980s, leaving a legacy of violence and fragile institutions.
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/cen...thern-triangle

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here is a fairly non partisan look at what has and is occuring in Central America and why people are fleeing.

Tens of thousands of Salvadorans, Guatemalans, and Hondurans, many of them unaccompanied minors, have arrived in the United States in recent years, seeking asylum from the region’s skyrocketing violence. Their countries, which form a region known as the Northern Triangle, were rocked by civil wars in the 1980s, leaving a legacy of violence and fragile institutions.
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/cen...thern-triangle

no one is denying that these people need help. but what liberals
don’t seem to grasp, is that we can’t take them all. we don’t have the space or the money.
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[Cool Beans]

Or we could just invite these hell hole countries to become new states. Then they wouldn't have to walk thousands of miles to vote.

If Guatemala and Honduras were US states, the automotive and other big industry could open factories there (in the US) paying a decent wage. If the hell holes cannot evolve into not hell holes, this problem will never end.

[DZ]

Yep - they are safe in Mexico - otherwise they would have never taken the chance to March through it. The precedent we definitely don't want to set is letting them in. They can request permission and wait their turn - in Mexico. This is Mexico's problem.

[DZ]

This will be a very complex national emergency. By law it will come down to the governors of each border state to ask for federal assistance and the Posse Comitatus Act.
Here is a good article outlining scenarios of what could happen.
https://www.justsecurity.org/54529/m...key-takeaways/

[DZ]

I don't believe they are true refugees - they are not fleeing a war torn country. Trump administrations problem is they can't "legally" mobilize active duty troops into law enforcement action (Posse Comitatus) UNLESS they can cite a danger to national security which is where this report I keep seeing referenced of 100 terrorists comes into play. That may allow his administration to place troops at the border in states (California) that will not mobilize their National Guard units.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by DZ

I don't believe they are true refugees - they are not fleeing a war torn country. Trump administrations problem is they can't "legally" mobilize active duty troops into law enforcement action (Posse Comitatus) UNLESS they can cite a danger to national security which is where this report I keep seeing referenced of 100 terrorists comes into play. That may allow his administration to place troops at the border in states (California) that will not mobilize their National Guard units.

A little Central American history knowledge would benefit this discussion greatly.
Everyone of these countries has gone thru economic, political and civil turmoil in the last 50 years. It is not getting better.
Nicaragua, Guatamala and El Salvador had long civil wars and various forms of ineffective governments. We, the US government, were tangled up in all of them. Honduras was the training base used by the US to train rebels that fought in all the other countries.

The 1951 Geneva Convention is the main international instrument of refugee law. The Convention clearly spells out who a refugee is and the kind of legal protection, other assistance and social rights he or she should receive from the countries who have signed the document. The Convention also defines a refugee’s obligations to host governments and certain categories or people, such as war criminals, who do not qualify for refugee status. The Convention was limited to protecting mainly European refugees in the aftermath of World War II, but another document, the 1967 Protocol, expanded the scope of the Convention as the problem of displacement spread around the world.

Article 1 of the Convention defines a refugee as a person who is outside his/her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of persecution because of his/her race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

A little Central American history knowledge would benefit this discussion greatly.
Everyone of these countries has gone thru economic, political and civil turmoil in the last 50 years. It is not getting better.
Nicaragua, Guatamala and El Salvador had long civil wars and various forms of ineffective governments. We, the US government, were tangled up in all of them. Honduras was the training base used by the US to train rebels that fought in all the other countries.

The 1951 Geneva Convention is the main international instrument of refugee law. The Convention clearly spells out who a refugee is and the kind of legal protection, other assistance and social rights he or she should receive from the countries who have signed the document. The Convention also defines a refugee’s obligations to host governments and certain categories or people, such as war criminals, who do not qualify for refugee status. The Convention was limited to protecting mainly European refugees in the aftermath of World War II, but another document, the 1967 Protocol, expanded the scope of the Convention as the problem of displacement spread around the world.

Article 1 of the Convention defines a refugee as a person who is outside his/her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of persecution because of his/her race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution.

What is the U.N.'s responsibility regarding nations that cannot protect their own people when they are under the conditions that you describe central America? Is it sending any U.N. troops there? Is it sanctioning those countries in any meaningful way? Are those countries members of the U.N.?

Is Mexico fulfilling its obligation by accepting the caravan's as refugees or returning them. Does the U.N. say that a country can refuse such refugees if its the first place they enter. That it can just ship them on to another country without that country's agreement to accept them?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

What is the U.N.'s responsibility regarding nations that cannot protect their own people when they are under the conditions that you describe central America? Is it sending any U.N. troops there? Is it sanctioning those countries in any meaningful way? Are those countries members of the U.N.?

Is Mexico fulfilling its obligation by accepting the caravan's as refugees or returning them. Does the U.N. say that a country can refuse such refugees if its the first place they enter. That it can just ship them on to another country without that country's agreement to accept them?

You have a lot of questions there for someone who only wants statements as replies
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You have a lot of questions there for someone who only wants statements as replies
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I prefer statements that specifically reply to specific questions. You didn't ask a question. I was posing questions that arose from your statement. As usual, you deflected, and didn't answer them.