trebles... - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

leptar · 07-24-2004, 07:54 PM

what do you all think of these trebles?

Mustad 35517D
Mustad 3561ED
VMC 9650PS

thanks...

Mike P · 07-25-2004, 10:21 AM

The Mustad 3561E's are OK (they're the closed eye ones, right?) The Mustad 35117's suck. I won't use them any longer. On plugs that use them, 3 out of 4 of the eyes fail right out of the package

VMC 9650PS are the best so long as we're talking about the 4x strong ones. Not quite up to speed on product numbers.

MAC · 07-25-2004, 10:43 AM

I use the open eye Mustads and find them ok. The main reason I think they fail for some guys is failure to maintain the tackle. When they start to rust they should be replaced IMHO. Another problem some guys have is closing them wrong. Once these are bent into position they cannot be rebent or you'll weaken or break them. The VMCs are great hooks but rust way too fast. Plus I don't like the extra pivot point with a split ring. I would use VMCs if I could get them easily in a cut hook form. Cutting the closed eyes is a no-no in my book as this leaves bare metal at cut point plus you weaken the eye by rebending.

Some of the other builders use the Mustads with the same feelings as I have. One of the builders (won't mention any names) has been making plugs for about 20 years and swears by the Mustads. To each his own as there are drawbacks with everything.

afterhours · 07-25-2004, 11:33 AM

wondered about using mustad open eyes, don't particularly like s/rings. good enough for ng, good enough for me. gonna try em.

Mike P · 07-25-2004, 01:47 PM

If you don't trust split rings, get a pair of bolt cutters at Sears or some other hardware place and cut the eye of a 3561E or a VMC. Or use the cutting wheel on a Dremel. Mike Fixter uses hand cut 3561E's on his plugs and the hook eyes are fine.

Whatever position the eye winds up in after you crimp it shut, leave it there. Fiddling with it to get it flush is a sure way to make it a "breakaway" eye.

Sorry to say, I'm convinced that Mustad changed the metalurgy on the 35117's in recent years. The ones that fail are shinier in finish than the old tinned cadmium 31117's and much more brittle.

MAC · 07-25-2004, 02:06 PM

I have a "few" of Mikes plugs and they look like Mustads to me... I believe he isn't going the bolt cutter route anymore. Could be wrong though.

UserRemoved1 · 07-25-2004, 02:20 PM

I spoke with VMC at length about this a while ago, they do NOT recommend cutting the hooks for a number of reasons...strength, rust, etc. Use minimum 90 lb split rings etc and you'll not have a problem...swivel will probably crap out before you got to bending the split ring...

Mike P · 07-25-2004, 02:22 PM

I put several hundred 31117's on Hawg Hunter plugs over the years for Brad when I was helping him. We had very few complaints about failures. Mustad also used to make open eyed trebles with an offset eye (think they were numbered 35114) and those held up too.

The problem ones aren't limited to Gibbs. If it was just Gibbs plugs that had the hooks fail regularly, new out of the wrapper, I'd write it off to pilot error at the factory. But Super Strikes also suffer the same failures new out of the package

What I'm thinking is that many tackle shops still have the older formula Mustads on the shelves. Gibbs probably rigs upwards of 50,000 plugs a year and is using a new formula Mustad. I've read that they had to reformulate for environmental reasons, that cadmium is one someone's "no-no" list.

Hab and Tattoo both use HD stainless splits. In size 5 and up these splits are extremely strong. I have so much confidence in them I've added them to the line attachment eye on almost all of my plugs to facilitate easy snap entry in the dark.

Nebe · 07-25-2004, 03:29 PM

I was just given slome plugs that have Owner trebbles on them. Now those are hooks!

UserRemoved1 · 07-25-2004, 03:42 PM

yea they are wicked nice Eben but they $$$$$ and only problem I ever seen with them is they are brittle they are so hard..... can't beat their sharpness though!

Quote:

Originally posted by Eben
I was just given slome plugs that have Owner trebbles on them. Now those are hooks!

JHABS · 07-25-2004, 04:40 PM

Yes CUTTING VMC hooks is a NO NO. You are cutting a Plated Hook which when cut is exposed to the ELEMENTS.May work for a little while but will not LAST. I also spoke with VMC AND SAID THEY DO NOT ADVISE IT. Open eye hooks such as Mustads are plated after they are cut, The 9650 ps is a x-strong hook , It however is not 4x strong ,Stick with the 9626 4 X which will be your best bang for your buck....

JHABS · 07-25-2004, 04:42 PM

Eben, You will not bend them 6 x .you got yesterday on them PLUGS.............................

Nebe · 07-25-2004, 04:54 PM

habs, thanks! and great to see you yesterday

:

Bernzy · 07-25-2004, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JHABS
Yes CUTTING VMC hooks is a NO NO. You are cutting a Plated Hook which when cut is exposed to the ELEMENTS.May work for a little while but will not LAST. I also spoke with VMC AND SAID THEY DO NOT ADVISE IT. Open eye hooks such as Mustads are plated after they are cut, The 9650 ps is a x-strong hook , It however is not 4x strong ,Stick with the 9626 4 X which will be your best bang for your buck....

What Habs said is ABSOLUTELY true!!

The 2 ends where you cut the hook eye expose unplated raw carbon steel to air and saltwater. (a bad combination)

They will fail.

Bernzy

JHABS · 07-26-2004, 09:36 AM

Newell Guy, I have a bag FULL of PLUGS with the VMC PS HOOKS and no RUST, A Perma STEEL Hook is TESTED to about 800 hours before they start to see RUST.It is a VERY good idea to RINSE ones tackle after a day on the SALTWATER this HELPS. You can buy better or cheaper hooks it's WHAT ones is looking for..GOOD FISHING........................................... ...

UserRemoved1 · 07-26-2004, 11:29 AM

JHABS remember our previous conversation on the wire type causing rust.....bet that's what he's seeing....

JHABS · 07-26-2004, 11:43 AM

Salty, I'd say that would be a good Bet ........................

MAC · 07-26-2004, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JHABS
Newell Guy, I have a bag FULL of PLUGS with the VMC PS HOOKS and no RUST, A Perma STEEL Hook is TESTED to about 800 hours before they start to see RUST.It is a VERY good idea to RINSE ones tackle after a day on the SALTWATER this HELPS. You can buy better or cheaper hooks it's WHAT ones is looking for..GOOD FISHING........................................... ...

JHabs, I am not trying to start a pissing contest or down play anyones products. This is just relaying what others have stated to me on different occaissions. Maybe they don't rinse their plugs. I do after every outing. As I stated before I would use them if I could get them in an open eye.

JHABS · 07-26-2004, 03:26 PM

Newell guy, NO pissing contest Why would you think that, I'm SIMPLY trying to help. Some types of thur wires have a reaction to different metals such as the Perma STEEL AND WILL CAUSE rusting to begin. Try a better grade of wire and see what happens.......................................

MAC · 07-26-2004, 03:34 PM

John, Sorry I took it the wrong way. Rough day at work. I understand what you mean on the effects of dissimilar metals. I have been using 308l and some wires from Hugh.

UserRemoved1 · 07-26-2004, 03:59 PM

NG, both jhabs and I have found the identical problem with the lesser grades of wire....don't use soft 304 etc as it's no good....it causes galvanic action for some reason with the permasteel and makes em rust the first time you use them.....

justplugit · 07-26-2004, 07:26 PM

Salty and Habs,what # wire do you feel is the best? As a beginner i have been using the 304 as it is easy to get and easier to bend.

Thanks

"uffah!!" · 07-26-2004, 07:40 PM

Did any of you guy's hear about these new trebles that look like three circle hooks together? There supposed to be attached to some new lures. Anyone know what I am talking about?

UserRemoved1 · 07-26-2004, 07:48 PM

JPI minimum 308 is what I've found...all the soft tempered stuff like 304 etc seems to have problems.

justplugit · 07-26-2004, 08:51 PM

Thanks Salty as usual for your help!

Crow · 07-28-2004, 08:15 PM

Anybody ever try the Eagle Claw 777 4x hook? They seem pretty nice to me. I like the VMC but their sizes are weird and they do not hold up when cut. But both are so much better than Mustad. Not only did Mustads rust so fast you could hear it, they twisted like spaghetti with a good fish on.

Mike P · 07-28-2004, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crow
Anybody ever try the Eagle Claw 777 4x hook? They seem pretty nice to me.

Yes, I have. They hold up very well. They're nowhere near as sharp out of the box as the VMC 4x. Also, the shank is longer so they hang farther under the plug when you use them in conjunction with a split. The overall profile of VMC plus split is as short or shorter than the same gap size 35117 without a split. The ECs are about the same overall length as a Mustad.

Some of the 4x strong ECs have a slightly turned in point. I prefer the ones with a straight point.

I've never cut an EC 777 so I don't know how the eye jolds up after being cut.

NIB · 07-29-2004, 07:32 AM

the short shank mustad i think7794 is a good hook.I have found the VMC's to rust pretty quickly no matter what I put em on.Not much on regular rinsing.

Crow · 07-29-2004, 09:18 PM

Mike I agree about the sharpness issue, but I have always sharpened all my trebles. I have a set up on a machine and sit down and do a coupla hundred at a time. This way they are sharp as I need them.
For many of the metal lip swimmers no matter how much I try I just do not care for split rings. I have always cut the hook and lived with the consequences of shorter like span. That why the VMC with the smaller size seeems to be an odd fit. The change from 4/0 to 5/0 is huge. but I am trying the VMC on the last batch of plugs, so I'll see how they work for me. I do miss the old Mustads, I used the last that I had. Also there is a chance that Eagle Claw is going to make all the 777's with that stupid 'beak' barb. I had to send a whole shipment back because they were all curved. I wish they would just leave well enough alone.