Simplified viewpoint I agree with

[Sea Dangles]

This is great. They shot down the jet and you blame Trump. This foolishness has no boundaries. Remind me who the US blamed when we shot down a civilian airplane...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

OK, so it's OK to bomb actual terrorists, but not those affiliated with a nation state.

"Terrorist is the new catch all ,, I am sorry actions conducted against foreign military targets by militants who wish us forces out of their countries, is not Terrorism, kill civilians shopping in a market or blow up a mosque or church that's Terrorism "

OK. SO what do you call it, when in 2011 the Obama administration uncovered a plot by Soleimani to hire Mexican drug cartels, to plant a bomb in a Washington DC restaurant, with the goal of assassinating the Saudi ambassador to the US? Is that a legitimate act of a sovereign nation-state, or is that an act of terror? Look it up, because that happened, was called Operation Red Coalition, I think. But it happened. That's not the act of a terrorist?

You're saying he wasn't a terrorist because he was in the employ of the nation of Iran?

I don't know that defining someone as a terrorist is an exact, precise science. There can be judgment and disagreement. But you're in a distinct minority if you feel this guy wasn't a terrorist.

I agree with you that targeting terrorists is nit the same as targeting legitimate military officials of another sovereign nation. Most people feel Soleimini was both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_a...ssination_plot

This is the issue with the right they assume any criticisms of the administration's actions are Translated as being sympathetic or seeing Soleimini as a poor victim...

many casually see this assasination as some heroic action by Trump
In the defense of Americans. And there playing that line hard

Where is the might of America to avenge the deaths of those killed the airbase attack in Kenya? Trump never mentioned them. But 1 death prompted trump to conduct an assasination and blame past administration.. I am sorry it's all


This administration has taken executive privilege out of the barn with no intention
Of putting it back,, and Republicans are complicit and are all in.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

This is great. They shot down the jet and you blame Trump. This foolishness has no boundaries. Remind me who the US blamed when we shot down a civilian airplane...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Iran shot down the jet I’m not suggesting Trump is directly to blame, what I’m suggesting and I believe the evidence bears it out; is that Trump set this in motion. Tell me you think Iran would have been so stupid to shoot down a commercial jet prior to Trump pulling out of the treaty.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Iran shot down the jet I’m not suggesting Trump is directly to blame, what I’m suggesting and I believe the evidence bears it out; is that Trump set this in motion. Tell me you think Iran would have been so stupid to shoot down a commercial jet prior to Trump pulling out of the treaty.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The American Revolution of 1776 set this in motion. And I believe the evidence bears it out . . . oh wait . . . maybe it was Adam and Eve who did it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

North Atlantic Treaty Organization

NATO defines terrorism in the AAP-06 NATO Glossary of Terms and Definitions, Edition 2019 as "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence, instilling fear and terror, against individuals or property in an attempt to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, or to gain control over a population, to achieve political, religious or ideological objectives". [50]

Nowhere does it say stateless.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

But Orange Man Bad!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Iran shot down the jet I’m not suggesting Trump is directly to blame, what I’m suggesting and I believe the evidence bears it out; is that Trump set this in motion. Tell me you think Iran would have been so stupid to shoot down a commercial jet prior to Trump pulling out of the treaty.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I get it now. Trump caused Iran to get extra stupid.🤡🤡🤡

You should probably take the same time out that your snowflake buddies have opted to enjoy. This charade you are chasing seems to be losing steam.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Iran shot down the jet

I’m not suggesting Trump is directly to blame,

what I’m suggesting and I believe the evidence bears it out;


is that Trump set this in motion.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

it's good to know that you don't believe that trump flew to iran and pulled the anti-aircraft trigger

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

The American Revolution of 1776 set this in motion. And I believe the evidence bears it out . . . oh wait . . . maybe it was Adam and Eve who did it.

actually obama did the agreement and sent the cash so I'm not suggesting he's responsible for all of this but he's responsible for all of this

[nightfighter]

To say Trump set things in motion is giving him much too much credit. He is but a player in the current act, of a play that has been going on for centuries... The administration came in with a list, and undoing the Iran nuclear deal, was on that list. Many felt the deal was not in our best interest and that the US did not negotiate from a position of strength.

In the end, I have ALWAYS believed the Iranians were doing exactly what they wanted to do regarding their nuclear aspirations despite the deal. I have felt the same about North Korea. Hell, I knew the athletes from Soviet bloc countries were doing their doping when they came to international competitions. They all lie to our face...

Back to current events. I don't believe anyone had a long range plan that included this assassination, nor the shooting down of a Ukrainian passenger jet in Tehran. Making the best decisions with the immediate conditions to achieve one's goals is the challenge, for everyone, not just heads of state. This is unscripted and some moves are based on how best to effect the ends the administration wishes to meet. As we all know by now, the ends don't always justify the means.... Or do they? That is more easily answered when the ends are met, which clearly hasn't been achieved, yet.

[Jim in CT]

Got Stripers, may I ask, what do you wish Trump did here? Do you wish he had let Soleimeini go freely back to Iran after doing whatever he was in Iraq to do? Knowing what we knew at that time (not what we know now), would you have advised him to take no action?

This is a very challenging and risky part of the world, always has been...

[wdmso]

Just a few years earlier, for United states
Soleimani had been an indispensable figure in the fight against the Taliban and ISIS.

SO Trump killed the guy and went full court press on how evil he was CUZ no one knew who he was

So in Trumps mind he thinks Isis is defeated , I can now kill the guy who we cozied up to help in the mission, but we won't tell Americans that part of the storie.

Yet their burning the air waves that Americans are safer today because of Trumps audacious action..

But can't fundamentally say how that is even remotely True

Trump is the boy who cried wolf he's lied and exaggerated since being elected

And now he and his sheep I mean base expect Americans to Trust what he says .

LoL
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

Keep banging the drum Wayne.
And keep crying wolf.
You have done enough to make sure nobody is listening.
🤡🍔🤡
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Just a few years earlier, for United states
Soleimani had been an indispensable figure in the fight against the Taliban and ISIS.

SO Trump killed the guy and went full court press on how evil he was CUZ no one knew who he was

So in Trumps mind he thinks Isis is defeated , I can now kill the guy who we cozied up to help in the mission, but we won't tell Americans that part of the storie.

Yet their burning the air waves that Americans are safer today because of Trumps audacious action..

But can't fundamentally say how that is even remotely True

Trump is the boy who cried wolf he's lied and exaggerated since being elected

And now he and his sheep I mean base expect Americans to Trust what he says .

LoL
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

True that Iran hates ISIS. But we’ve had him designated as a terrorist for a long, long time. For good reason. Trump wasn’t the first president to do so.

you can’t see how we’re safer? the guy was a very skilled
mass murderer.

You know, i asked
you what you thought about the plot uncovered by the obama
administration, where Solemeini tried to higher Mexican drug cartels to plant a bomb in a washington DC restaurant. Was Obama similar to Trump, lying or crying wolf?

The fewer people there are who would plant bombs in DC restaurants, the safer we are. Let me know if that’s going too fast for you.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

True that Iran hates ISIS. But we’ve had him designated as a terrorist for a long, long time. For good reason. Trump wasn’t the first president to do so.

you can’t see how we’re safer? the guy was a very skilled
mass murderer.

You know, i asked
you what you thought about the plot uncovered by the obama
administration, where Solemeini tried to higher Mexican drug cartels to plant a bomb in a washington DC restaurant. Was Obama similar to Trump, lying or crying wolf?

The fewer people there are who would plant bombs in DC restaurants, the safer we are. Let me know if that’s going too fast for you.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You chris and others can clearly keep your head in the Trump cool aid punch bowl

Last night he was selling Congress cant be told anything because it will be leaked to the fake media and our enemies...

And the crowd went crazy.. just admit you guys have no issue with Trumps moves towards becauming an authoritarian leader ... He was selling it last night and his base is all for it...

This view is based on actual conduct of Trump not hate not because hes a Republican

And another interesting development watching Fox news coverage and CNN coverage .. while recovering, it's clear to me the White House and Fox are in clear coordination the tone from Pompeo totally different on Fox where he mentions Obama constantly yet not on CNN and they give Trump free air time of every rally and parroting all White House talking points . I never expected Fox to be so deep in Trumps pocket , but after 2 weeks of watching , there is no daylight between them , and if fox news are some people's only source of information, I understand why they'll believe anything... lazy consumers

[scottw]

drinking game....everybody drink whenever a leftist mentions Kool-Aid ...or cool aid I guess

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

congress cant be told anything because it will be leaked to the fake media and our enemies...

this is sadly true...

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

and if fox news are some people's only source of information, I understand why they'll believe anything... lazy consumers

I think we've established that only leftists watch faux news

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

You chris and others can clearly keep your head in the Trump cool aid punch bowl

Last night he was selling Congress cant be told anything because it will be leaked to the fake media and our enemies...

And the crowd went crazy.. just admit you guys have no issue with Trumps moves towards becauming an authoritarian leader ... He was selling it last night and his base is all for it...

This view is based on actual conduct of Trump not hate not because hes a Republican

And another interesting development watching Fox news coverage and CNN coverage .. while recovering, it's clear to me the White House and Fox are in clear coordination the tone from Pompeo totally different on Fox where he mentions Obama constantly yet not on CNN and they give Trump free air time of every rally and parroting all White House talking points . I never expected Fox to be so deep in Trumps pocket , but after 2 weeks of watching , there is no daylight between them , and if fox news are some people's only source of information, I understand why they'll believe anything... lazy consumers

You're dodging on the Iranian plot to bomb a DC restaurant.

As to Fox, Hannity and Fox and Friends in the morning, will never criticize Trump, not ever. I only watch Fox maybe twice a week, and when I do, I look for Brett Baier or Tucker Carlson, two guys who criticize Trump all the time. Brett Baier was discussing Iran this week, he let Republican Senator Tom Cotton talk for two minutes, then let Democrat Senator Tim Kaine talk for two minutes, he didn't interrupt either one of them. He gave influential people on both sides a chance to each make their own case. That doesn't happen all the time on Foxnews, but it only happens on Foxnews.

Hope your recovery is going well, Godspeed!

[Sea Dangles]

I don’t bother watching the news on any channel.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You're dodging on the Iranian plot to bomb a DC restaurant.

As to Fox, Hannity and Fox and Friends in the morning, will never criticize Trump, not ever. I only watch Fox maybe twice a week, and when I do, I look for Brett Baier or Tucker Carlson, two guys who criticize Trump all the time. Brett Baier was discussing Iran this week, he let Republican Senator Tom Cotton talk for two minutes, then let Democrat Senator Tim Kaine talk for two minutes, he didn't interrupt either one of them. He gave influential people on both sides a chance to each make their own case. That doesn't happen all the time on Foxnews, but it only happens on Foxnews.

Hope your recovery is going well, Godspeed!

Thanks getting there should be 100% before spring

The bomb plot was a plot agreed but its irrelevant to the new policy of assasination ,

The occasional criticisms don't tip the scales I think we can agree on that

Pompeo says the attack was going to happen but could say what embassy or military targets were going to be attacked... and couldn't or wouldn't tell members of Congress the details

Also the said Iran missed to avoid killing Americans but now its they were trying kill Americans

They were so worried about a bengiza repeat so close to the election , this administration rolled the dice , and are talking as if the dice rolling is over, and. Sounding like bengiza 1st it was imminent now it's something else happening some place

Now Trump goes from 1 embassy to 4 embassy, hence credibility issue

On another note Trumps mentions Obama like 3 times a day since getting in office

Why is that

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Thanks getting there should be 100% before spring

The bomb plot was a plot agreed but its irrelevant to the new policy of assasination ,

The occasional criticisms don't tip the scales I think we can agree on that

Pompeo says the attack was going to happen but could say what embassy or military targets were going to be attacked... and couldn't or wouldn't tell members of Congress the details

Also the said Iran missed to avoid killing Americans but now its they were trying kill Americans

They were so worried about a bengiza repeat so close to the election , this administration rolled the dice , and are talking as if the dice rolling is over, and. Sounding like bengiza 1st it was imminent now it's something else happening some place

Now Trump goes from 1 embassy to 4 embassy, hence credibility issue

On another note Trumps mentions Obama like 3 times a day since getting in office

Why is that

i think the bomb plot is relevant, it shows that he was a terrorist and git what was coming to him.

I’m not saying fox gives equal positive and negative coverage to trump. i’m saying that nowhere in tv will you find more fair or balanced coverage, than fox’s Brett Baier or Tucker Carlson. both are conservative, but aren’t thoughtless.

Most importantly, glad
you’re feeling better, and happy new year.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

He is obsessed with many things, Obama, the size of his crowds, his astonishing intellect, the media, his dictator boyfriends, the evil dems and a long list of people who have criticized him; many already dead and buried but some things he just can’t let go.

I think it’s laughable that Trump and Pompeo think we should believe them about the planned attacks coming our way, pretty hard to believe anything from a pathological liar. He believes he can do what he wants, he could care less about laws or norms, equal branches of government not in his eyes, but we should accept that this was an appropriate action. Even some of his own party were appalled at the BS they heard in the briefing and we haven’t seen anywhere near the end of the fallout.

Trust is earned and I don’t trust this administration one bit, until I hear hard evidence it’s just more of Trump being Trump.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

He is obsessed with many things, Obama, the size of his crowds, his astonishing intellect, the media, his dictator boyfriends, the evil dems and a long list of people who have criticized him; many already dead and buried but some things he just can’t let go.

I think it’s laughable that Trump and Pompeo think we should believe them about the planned attacks coming our way, pretty hard to believe anything from a pathological liar. He believes he can do what he wants, he could care less about laws or norms, equal branches of government not in his eyes, but we should accept that this was an appropriate action. Even some of his own party were appalled at the BS they heard in the briefing and we haven’t seen anywhere near the end of the fallout.

Trust is earned and I don’t trust this administration one bit, until I hear hard evidence it’s just more of Trump being Trump.

it’s “hard for you to believe” that a designated terrorist, known to being complicit in the deaths of 600 american servicemen, might be planning more attacks?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Not hard to believe with sufficient evidence, so if there is such evidence, why hide it from congress? I won’t double down on Wayne’s point, but this action has the potential to bring more harm and casualties than these yet to be divulged attacks and Trump has taken us to a point we are ok with assassinating state officials. Just imagine if Iran assassinated our top military officials, it would take us right into something most Americans have grown tired of. This could very well be where we are heading if Irans proxy’s start ramping up attacks well beyond previous levels.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Not hard to believe with sufficient evidence, so if there is such evidence, why hide it from congress? I won’t double down on Wayne’s point, but this action has the potential to bring more harm and casualties than these yet to be divulged attacks and Trump has taken us to a point we are ok with assassinating state officials. Just imagine if Iran assassinated our top military officials, it would take us right into something most Americans have grown tired of. This could very well be where we are heading if Irans proxy’s start ramping up attacks well beyond previous levels.

It seems the speculation has no boundaries.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[fishgolf]

Soleimani's job was to ensure that Shia control in Sunni dominated regions was furthered through his Quds Force. He was doing this regardless of Nuke deal or anything else. Yes, he fought ISIS in Syria, not as an ally of the US, but because ISIS is Sunni. Saudi Arabia is Sunni and our ally, therefore a drone attack on their oil production. Iraq has a Sunni minority that has recently protested the government - repressed (some killed) by the Shia controlled government. Thinking of these regions as "states" with boundaries is not how the local's think (Just like the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan is irrelevant to the locals there).

Removing Soleimani is only a temporary setback to an ideology that will not stop at inflicting its religion on all within reach.

[Got Stripers]

Religion is the route if all the BS this world has endured.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Religion is the route if all the BS this world has endured.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This is dumb
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Religion is the route if all the BS this world has endured.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Communism is one of the kinds of religion which is the root of most of the BS. Secular religions in which the power of the leaders is the only god they believe in, are invested with the dogma that there is no greater authority than themselves, which gives them the ultimate authority to do to the rest of us whatever maintains their wealth and power.

And even though these secular religions are often founded by idealists who believe they have instituted something for the greater good, like all authoritarian organizations controlled by centralized power, they are corrupted by their own systems which put power in the hands of a few elites. And so evolve more and more into the nature of religion in which the followers follow them and are subject to their will rather than to a God, Creator, to whom even the elites must bow. Our modern socialist, progressive, and communist systems are such examples.

Most of the religions today are of that sort. Even the ones in which the leaders profess to believe in a god greater than themselves, but really don't.

Most of the mystical, spiritual, and transcendent religions in which the believers truly do believe, have been a hedge against the avarice, cruelty, and oppressive tendencies latent in human nature. But they too are often corrupted by power seeking non-believers. The more highly organized these religions become with centralized power structures, the more likely that they are co-opted by corrupt non-believers for their own benefit. What has happened to the Catholic Church, in my opinion, especially under the current papal administration, is an example of that. But even so, it is still not as destructive as the purely secular religions of today.

Islam is an example, in my opinion, of a sort of outlier spiritual religion that claims a God greater than everyone and everything and even has many leaders who are true believers--but was started mostly as a political system by someone who sought power rather than spiritual enlightenment. And is more a governmental system rather than a spiritually directed personal religion.