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Old 08-17-2010, 11:49 AM   #1
RIJIMMY
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this mosque thing is blowin up for Barry

I dont have an issue with what he said but it seems like left and right is pissed. The guy cant get a simple message across. He has had to apologize and restate his position more times than any president I can remember. He looks like a goof

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Old 08-17-2010, 12:20 PM   #2
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Is it what he said? or just the "Gotcha" media on both sides.

I agree 100% with him on this one.

My two points on this:
1. It is not at 'Ground Zero' it is actually several blocks away. Newt et al., make it sound like it is being rebuilt as tower #2!

2. As one of the 9/11 victims husbands put it (paraphrasing), ...the day we start compromising our ideals as a nation, one of them being religious freedom, then the terrorists who carried out those horrific acts have won.

Whether I agree or not with this being a perfect site, I love that we live in a country where people are free to do what is their right to do.

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:35 PM   #3
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As he keeps P-ing off more and more Americans his credibility gets weaker, his favorable % drops more and now the Gop has a better chance of winning both the house and senate. All we need now is for Biden to add his two cents.

And now Reid is trying to do damage control, but the fire door is jambed in the open position and he is not using the right retardant.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Aand now the Gop has a better chance of winning both the house and senate.
Except that 'Polls' which Spence doesn't believe in, suggest that the GOP's approval is lower then the Dem's in Congress now.

going to be an interesting 2010

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:19 PM   #5
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I heard someone, a caller to a talk radio program, give a valid suggestion.
They said "Why not have a Multi-faith center at that site?"
It would allow ALL religions equal access with no one being dominant or favored.

Although the proposed site is 2 blocks away from "ground Zero" it is more a question of sesitivity of the topic. Would it be any more favorable to build a Neo-Nazi museum anywhere near the Holocaust Memorial? No, it would be considered a bad choice because of the emotions attached to the history of the events.
The same could be said regarding the mosque location.

Once again it's more a case, I believe, of poor judgement.
It sounds more and more like the all out selling of America to appease "the terrorist" of the world. You know, an amped up version of the "Can't we all get along/Kumbaya/I love you, you love me." rationalization. Instead of standing for something, we appear to be falling for everything!

And that's just not right!
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:54 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by FishermanTim View Post
I heard someone, a caller to a talk radio program, give a valid suggestion.
They said "Why not have a Multi-faith center at that site?"
It would allow ALL religions equal access with no one being dominant or favored.
Good idea, I'm going to suggest this to the Catholic church down the street from my house. Last time I checked my Episcopal upbringing wasn't good enough to take communion at their alter...

Quote:
Although the proposed site is 2 blocks away from "ground Zero" it is more a question of sesitivity of the topic. Would it be any more favorable to build a Neo-Nazi museum anywhere near the Holocaust Memorial? No, it would be considered a bad choice because of the emotions attached to the history of the events.
The same could be said regarding the mosque location.
This would be a valid argument had the proposal been for a "terrorist recruitment and training center" rather than an Islamic center to provide facilities for recreation and prayer for Muslims.

Serious question. Do you just think all Muslims are terrorists in waiting or are you just not that bright? I don't think that's the case...perhaps just too much FOX and Rush.

This applies to Buck as well.

-spence
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
Is it what he said? or just the "Gotcha" media on both sides.

I agree 100% with him on this one.

My two points on this:
1. It is not at 'Ground Zero' it is actually several blocks away. Newt et al., make it sound like it is being rebuilt as tower #2!

2. As one of the 9/11 victims husbands put it (paraphrasing), ...the day we start compromising our ideals as a nation, one of them being religious freedom, then the terrorists who carried out those horrific acts have won.

Whether I agree or not with this being a perfect site, I love that we live in a country where people are free to do what is their right to do.
Bry - I agree with you......but - what Obama said seems like he is trying to pacify everyone and in the end, saying nothing. The polls show most are against the mosque, something like 70%. O says something, then restates it the next day. Almost to satisfy the population. This is consistent. Remember health care? the guy did roadshow after roadshow and still never got his message across. They need to polish their message.

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Old 08-17-2010, 01:56 PM   #8
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Even WSJ is on him now with their op-ed
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:13 PM   #9
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
we live in a country where people are free to do what is their right to do.
yeah! so on the bottom floor we can have a medical marijuana Cafe
so everyone can chill out before going in to pray.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:38 PM   #10
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It is not the federal government's job to state a position on this either way. Would there be this much outrage and talk about preventing construction if it was a Catholic Church being put up? If not, then the same opinions should apply to a mosque.

The relationship between a bunch of Islamic extremists flying planes into the towers and a mosque wanting to be built down the street shouldn't be considered.
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
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It is not the federal government's job to state a position on this either way. Would there be this much outrage and talk about preventing construction if it was a Catholic Church being put up? If not, then the same opinions should apply to a mosque.

The relationship between a bunch of Islamic extremists flying planes into the towers and a mosque wanting to be built down the street shouldn't be considered.
What would the chatter be if it was going to be a Synagogue?
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
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It is not the federal government's job to state a position on this either way. Would there be this much outrage and talk about preventing construction if it was a Catholic Church being put up? If not, then the same opinions should apply to a mosque.

The relationship between a bunch of Islamic extremists flying planes into the towers and a mosque wanting to be built down the street shouldn't be considered.
In principal, you're right. But.....its a matter of sentiment. The people that were responsible for 9/11 made religion a factor. It wasnt the victims. You cant blame people for their feelings against that religion. O should have said what he said day 1 and then shut up. Its not the Feds job to do that. BUT -
its not their job to get involved in Cambridge police business
or racial comments at an NAACP meeting

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Old 08-17-2010, 05:27 PM   #13
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They have erected a mosque at the site of every great victory.
In a country where you can't say "God" in school or put a baby Jesus on a town common the BS over not allowing a mosque within sight of the graves of thousands killed by Muslims is laughable. You can not defend it. Build it elsewhere.
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Old 08-17-2010, 05:32 PM   #14
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How about a Planned Parenthood office too.

This is a very stupid, again, thing. I think it's Bush's fault for not telling him to shut the F* up
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
They have erected a mosque at the site of every great victory.
Good to see the talking points arrived ok.

Quote:
In a country where you can't say "God" in school or put a baby Jesus on a town common the BS over not allowing a mosque within sight of the graves of thousands killed by Muslims is laughable. You can not defend it. Build it elsewhere.
Yes, but from I hear bigots ironically tend to have a good sense of humor.

-spence
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:32 AM   #16
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When will you guys learn that debating or even paying attention to this kind of crap is a waste of time?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:43 AM   #17
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Do you really believe it is the right wing pundits that are stirring up anti Islamic sentiment, or maybe we could put the blame where it belongs....on the Muslims that commit these cowardly crimes. God forbid you blame the Islamic radicals for their actions.
Just a question... does anyone know if there is a plan for a shrine or tribute to those killed being planned in this "community center" I would guess no.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:59 AM   #18
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Do you really believe it is the right wing pundits that are stirring up anti Islamic sentiment, or maybe we could put the blame where it belongs....on the Muslims that commit these cowardly crimes. God forbid you blame the Islamic radicals for their actions.
Just a question... does anyone know if there is a plan for a shrine or tribute to those killed being planned in this "community center" I would guess no.
You're blending up a lot of issues into a sticky mess.

There's a very vocal part of the Right wing in this country that's absolutely anti-Islam. Of this I don't think there can be much debate. You also have a punditry who will use "tolerance" issues to attack Liberals in the political area for short-term gain.

There's also plenty of condemnation for acts of "terrorism" all around. I'd note that you say the "Muslims" that commit these crimes and not the "terrorists" that commit this crimes?

As for a shrine, once again you're lumping terrorists with mainstream Muslims. It's almost as if you believe they should feel guilty for 9/11.

The irony in all of this is that it's exactly what Bin Laden had hoped to achieve. Americans taking away the rights of Muslims in the US because of their faith. And then you wonder why there's such anti-US sentiment in the Islamic world...

-spence
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:06 AM   #19
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The irony in all of this is that it's exactly what Bin Laden had hoped to achieve. Americans taking away the rights of Muslims in the US because of their faith. And then you wonder why there's such anti-US sentiment in the Islamic world...

-spence
ahh - see how you are blinded? No wants to "take away their rights". We have religious freedom, but we alos have freedom of speech. Is it wrong for people to question and react to this?
People believe it is insensitive to do this in that area.
I would think Muslims would understand, no? I mean they (and this is NOT RADICALS) have made death threats for cartoon artisits and writers. they require their woman to cover their faces. they must undertstand emotions, no?

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Old 08-18-2010, 09:24 AM   #20
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ahh - see how you are blinded?
No.

Quote:
No wants to "take away their rights".
Sure they do. Some want to take away their "right" to move forward with their "already approved permits" simply because of their religion.

Quote:
We have religious freedom, but we alos have freedom of speech. Is it wrong for people to question and react to this?
People obviously have the right to their opinion...it becomes an issue when it impacts the freedoms of others.

Quote:
People believe it is insensitive to do this in that area.
I would think Muslims would understand, no? I mean they (and this is NOT RADICALS) have made death threats for cartoon artisits and writers. they require their woman to cover their faces. they must undertstand emotions, no?
To do what? Live? Pray? Exercise?

Should we declare Manhatten a "Muslim Free Zone" because it might scare somebody into believing there's going to be another attack...ANY SECOND?

During the recession you saw a lot more women from the Middle East shopping in Boston, some covered head to toe with only a slit for the eyes exposed. I'd have to think this made some people more than a little nervous what with 9/11 and all.

Should we ban that as well?

You're on the slippery slope.

-spence
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
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No.


Sure they do. Some want to take away their "right" to move forward with their "already approved permits" simply because of their religion.



-spence
no - MOST (not some Spence, polls say MOST) believe it is insensitive to the families of the deceased to erect a muslim center close to ground zzero because the murder of these people was committed in the name of __________ by people the people who are in the ____________ religion.
There is no "simply". It is understandable.

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Old 08-18-2010, 09:07 AM   #22
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Obama shouldn't have a stance or an opinion on this either way. If he does, it should not be public. Seperation of church and state.

We don't hear his opinion on construction of churchs or temples.

Somebody just back of you while you are fishing is as bad as someone looking over your shoulder while you write a letter to your girl. ~Ernest Hemingway
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:27 AM   #23
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Obama shouldn't have a stance or an opinion on this either way. If he does, it should not be public. Seperation of church and state.

We don't hear his opinion on construction of churchs or temples.
Obama's remark was targeted at the Constitutional aspect, which as POTUS he's sworn to uphold.

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Old 08-18-2010, 09:58 AM   #24
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Obama's remark was targeted at the Constitutional aspect, which as POTUS he's sworn to uphold.

-spence
Then he did a great job. If you consider flip-flopping upholding the Constitution.

Bottom line in all of this is that he made a comment on something without the White House having any idea he was going to. Then, when he realized that the publicity to his comments was negative, he decided to try to talk his way out of it. This made the story much bigger than it should be because he looks weak or indecisive for his flip-flop.

Personally, I think it's great. The negative press should have been on the Palins and Gingrich's of the world, yet Obama's taking the brunt of it. I't's like the Cambridge police situation.

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:53 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Obama shouldn't have a stance or an opinion on this either way. If he does, it should not be public. Seperation of church and state.

We don't hear his opinion on construction of churchs or temples.
This was his 2nd bad opinion. His 1st was when he took the Cambridge cop to task. The professor, Mr. Bates is a racist as is the President. Do not forget who this Prisidents mentor was and still is for the past 20 years,"Rev. Wright."

Further more the Taliban is in the White House.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:52 PM   #26
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will women be allowed to attend the trophy mosque?...or will they have to enter with the children through a small hatch in a back alley and worship in the basement with the livestock?


Police remove Muslim women from US mosque for breaking segregation rules


Police were called by an imam conducting a rug-butting session attended by around 20 men after Fatima Thompson, a convert to Islam, entered the male-only area with five “progressive” supporters.


The imam interrupted prayers to announce by microphone:

We are going to wait, because some people came to disturb the prayer, until the police come and take care of this issue.

Within minutes, three police officers arrived and told the women to leave or face arrest.

Washington police enforcing sharia law? Who woulda thunk it?

Thompson, who converted to Islam 18 years ago, said:

Wooden barriers have to be taken down and women have to be allowed to join, to pray behind the men in the main praying area. That’s our request.

She added:

We are against gender segregation, against the fact that women are put aside or in a totally different room at the mosque.

The Sunday protest was the second time women have sought to share the main prayer area at the mosque in Washington DC, after a group of women first tried in February.

Thompson said.

The general issue we are pushing is gender segregation and the ramifications it fosters. It’s not healthy, and not reflective of our society here. It’s very reflective of very restrictive, ultra orthodox societies.

Their hair covered with headscarves, the group entered the mosque’s prayer area via the main door usually reserved for men. Women and children ordinarily enter the Washington mosque, located in the city’s embassy district, through a small door hidden behind a screen.

Asra Nomani, a Muslim feminist who has participated in similar protests elsewhere in the United States, said:

If you are black in this country they can’t tell you to sit in a corner but if you are a woman they can.

The source of contention, according to Bare Naked Islam, is a small room created with seven foot high wooden walls. Jannah B’int Hannah describes how she feels in there where she cannot see the imam, or leader of the mosque, speak.

Boxed in, stifling, suffocating and totally a second class citizen.

Last month, Hannah and approximately 20 other women entered the main hall to pray, but D C police were called. They asked them to leave or be arrested.

Syed Burmi, the imam of Islamic Society of Western Maryland, says the physical separation helps maintain women’s privacy and modesty as well as keeps the focus on prayer.

"If I stand next to a lady or a woman stands next to me, maybe the focus will change and no longer be on God the Almighty. So that’s why we put the partition".
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:01 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
You're blending up a lot of issues into a sticky mess.

There's a very vocal part of the Right wing in this country that's absolutely anti-Islam. Of this I don't think there can be much debate. You also have a punditry who will use "tolerance" issues to attack Liberals in the political area for short-term gain.

There's also plenty of condemnation for acts of "terrorism" all around. I'd note that you say the "Muslims" that commit these crimes and not the "terrorists" that commit this crimes?

As for a shrine, once again you're lumping terrorists with mainstream Muslims. It's almost as if you believe they should feel guilty for 9/11.

The irony in all of this is that it's exactly what Bin Laden had hoped to achieve. Americans taking away the rights of Muslims in the US because of their faith. And then you wonder why there's such anti-US sentiment in the Islamic world...

-spence
Since I've been labaled a member of the KKK, and your insane, how about we let the firemen and policemen decide where it should go???

Come to think of it...they better build it flame proof because response time may be a little slow. They are short a few of their finest since the towers were destroyed.

FYI, just in case you forgot that was the second time the um.. terrorist, bombed it.

You were wrong about the trial in NY and you will be wrong about this.
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Old 08-18-2010, 03:21 PM   #28
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Since I've been labaled a member of the KKK, and your insane, how about we let the firemen and policemen decide where it should go???

Come to think of it...they better build it flame proof because response time may be a little slow. They are short a few of their finest since the towers were destroyed.
So I assume you believe that no first responders were Muslim, or that no Muslims were killed in the attack?

Quote:
You were wrong about the trial in NY and you will be wrong about this.
That was an opinion, here we're talking about the law.

-spence
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:04 PM   #29
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So I assume you believe that no first responders were Muslim, or that no Muslims were killed in the attack?


-spence
you are aware that there are a lot of Muslims opposed to the building of this mosque and recognize that is is not only a bad idea but more likely an intentional provocation? .......but radical islam and the left in America seem to be in complete agreement
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:29 PM   #30
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So I assume you believe that no first responders were Muslim, or that no Muslims were killed in the attack?


-spence
Why would you assume that?
We both can agree that Islamic radicals have no problem killing Muslims.
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