Gun Owners.. Ball is in your court

[tysdad115]

I'll end with this tonight...in this bat#^&#^&#^&#^& crazy world we live in I seriously hope no one is ever in a situation where they wished someone with a firearm was there, some people choose to call and hope someone with a gun gets there in time. Others choose not to have to but either way its your choice. My choice is not yours to change.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by blondterror

Andy... you sure have all the answers. I do not believe anything claim...

here is more accurate info on suicides by guns

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/op...smtyp=cur&_r=0

I asked you guys to think and all you do is spout forth the same BS what are your original thoughts to stop the problem.. why not better gun control

is this now a suicide issue? if you think reducing or restricting guns will solve suicides there is no evidence of this elsewhere...Japan has twice the suicide rate as the US and guns are scarce there and where they enjoy the lowest gun homicide rate in the world....South Korea has gun-control laws so strict almost all guns are illegal; the few available hunting rifles must be “stored at police stations” when not in use. Handguns are practically non-existent and “advertising guns or ammunition is banned.” But while shooting incidents “are rare,” South Korea has the highest suicide rate in the developed world according to the World Health Organization.

many European nations(Hungary, Poland, France, Belgium, and Austria) with stricter gun control have higher rates and we're on a par with other countries with strict gun control...Australia has seen a drop in suicides that some like to attribute to gun legislation but the drop was occurring for 10 years prior to the 1996 and non-firearm suicides spiked immediately after the buy back..the UK has seen an increase and is on a par with the US despite strict gun laws...someone who is determined to injure themselves or others will find a way...taking away a mode does not curb the intent

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by tysdad115

I'll end with this tonight...in this bat#^&#^&#^&#^& crazy world we live in I seriously hope no one is ever in a situation where they wished someone with a firearm was there, some people choose to call and hope someone with a gun gets there in time. Others choose not to have to but either way its your choice. My choice is not yours to change.
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Son it might be. One call to a psychologist to give you some head shrinking and he could seem you unfit to own fire arms.
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[ecduzitgood]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ass-shootings/
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[afterhours]

first and foremost i am a gun owner, have been most of my life. the thoughts i have concerning guns are my own - not influenced by nra or nobama and co.
my idea of gun control may be in line with some others here.
- tighter gun shop regs, and none of those walk in/walk out with a gun shows.
- must tighter background checks, including mental health and violence issues
-mandatory long jail time for possession of illegal guns- say 5-10 years
-longer jail time for use of illegal guns in criminal activity - say 10-20 years
-if guns are stolen or missing incident must be reported asap
-gun buyback programs in at risk areas for real $ not 50 -100 per, more like 500+ per that will get some peoples attention. the way our govt slings cash that would be minuscule.
- don't eff with the rights of law abiding gun owners. you may need one someday.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Andy, from Wikipedia...... (my disclaimer for source of defending hard numbers as opposed to throwing them out, as some here are prone to do)


Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and thousands more injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms (excluding BB and pellet guns) were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms.[1][6]

out of those 11,208 homicides.....how many of those were actually by the legal owner of the gun....that might be a place to start looking.

[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Son it might be. One call to a psychologist to give you some head shrinking and he could seem you unfit to own fire arms.
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I understand, if only those who need it would go see one...me? I'm just perfect!!!

[spence]

Some good points here...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/op...smtyp=cur&_r=0

[tysdad115]

Good points to you, not to others. We can find contradicting evidence to both sides of our opinions. My opinion is the NY Times is liberal bias trash.

[Fishpart]

Most of the issues related to the now "gun violence" have some relationship to mental health. How much of it is a result of illegal drugs which are in many cases someone looking for a way out of their own private hell. Good article pasted below.


Chris Harper Mercer, the man who killed nine people in Oregon yesterday, was almost certainly profoundly mentally ill. According to neighbors, Mercer isolated himself from others, communicated largely through the Internet and lived in the basement of his mother’s house in Torrance, California before moving to Oregon.

He was frequently seen wearing camouflage pants and combat boots. And he reportedly left a note at the scene of his rampage yesterday stating he had no girlfriend and no life and would be welcomed in Hell and embraced by the devil.

I certainly never examined Mr. Mercer, but these details, if true, may point to conditions like schizoid personality disorder, Asperberger’s syndrome or even schizophrenia, any of which can dramatically limit the ability to socialize and empathize with others, contribute to feelings of emptiness and isolation and spawn anything from intense depression to paranoid delusions.

Given the fact that Mercer lived for a time with his mother during his adult years, was noticed to be peculiar by neighbors and had acquaintances online, I would venture that more than one person knew he was not well.


If the president had a son like Chris Mercer, believe me, he would not be content to have his ill son live in a country where he could not procure firearms quite as easily. He would want his son’s disorder definitively diagnosed and definitively treated.

I do not know whether he ever got anything like comprehensive help, but it is hard to believe he could have, given what happened Thursday.

Violence of the kind perpetrated by Chris Mercer is always preventable through a combination of psychotherapy, proper medications and hospitalizations when needed.

Period. There is no exception.

But people like Chris Mercer keep falling through the cracks of our shattered, sorry excuse for a mental health care system. This is tragic and unnecessary, because outreach and screening systems could be put in place that would be neither prohibitively expensive, nor an impingement on anyone’s liberty.

One of the hurdles in the way of building a system to prevent killings like those that occurred in Oregon is that politicians like President Obama turn such tragedies into reprehensible calls for gun control, rather than proper calls to rebuild the mental health care system.

Somehow, the uncontrolled psychiatric symptoms of one man should justify, in the president’s mind, curtailing the liberties of all men.

If the president had a son like Chris Mercer, believe me, he would not be content to have his ill son live in a country where he could not procure firearms quite as easily. He would want his son’s disorder definitively diagnosed and definitively treated. That would be, after all, the humane thing and the right thing to do.

Instead, the president, through his utterly absurd public comments after this tragedy, argues for an America where men like Chris Mercer (of which there are many, many thousands who will never hurt a soul) are free to live lives of terrible desperation and suffering in the shadowy basements of suburban homes, lost in delusions and wandering the streets.

Fixing things, for real, is always harder than burying them, whether for convenience or to achieve political gain.

The president’s proposed solution to the rash of mass shootings plaguing our nation, which have been due almost exclusively to mental illness, would be no solution at all.



Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist and member of the Fox News Medical A-Team.

[The Dad Fisherman]

there are some good points made...and some that aren't. The problem is everybody has that All or Nothing mentality....the answer is in the middle.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

Most of the issues related to the now "gun violence" have some relationship to mental health. .

..in a society where we drug youth as a substitute to discipline, drug the population as a substitute to coping with life and then force feed graphic violence etc. through every media outlet devaluing human life making death seem routine and often entertaining...not a wonder some flip out....turn on the TV...it's a relentless how-to in how to be a maniac...you reap what you sow ....sadly sometimes

[Nebe]

This would be a simple way to implement proper gun control. Create an endorsement on drivers liscense system for gun ownership. To obtain this endorsement, you would have to take a gun safety class. The system is already in place as this would be like getting a motorcycle liscense.
Eliminate gun shows and sales should only happen in gun stores. Simply showing your liscense with the endorsement on it allows you to purchase what you want.

The beauty of this system is that the criminal background check, and your police record can be accessed by the DMV and thus would provide some form of screening.

A gun endorsement would expire every 2 years and would be renewed online by paying a few bucks that would be used to fund the system, much like how the fishing liscense works.
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[tysdad115]

In MA we already have to take a safety course prior to turning in an application for and FID/LTC.

[redlite]

Originally Posted by tysdad115

In MA we already have to take a safety course prior to turning in an application for and FID/LTC.

Again for the cheap seats mass has the most stringent gun laws/ permit issue guidelines in the country
Steps are
1. Attain application for license to carry from police department in which you legally reside
2. Pay to take certified safety course in which u have to safely demonstrate how to handle and fire handgun. Then pass written exam
3. Pay to get passport pictures
4. Submit in writing detailed request and reason for license to carry along with non-refundable fee to local police department
That information is then processed by the ATF and FBI for criminal back ground check( Thats right, the FEDS do the backround check). Upon completion it is returned to the local police department. Then it is ultimarely solely at the descretion of the presiding police chief of the town you leaglly reside in. It is also at the descretion of the police chief weather u are approved for a class A high cApacity/ all lawful purposes permit or a target only permit or denied all together as has happened in many cases. I know that for years carver had a female cheif that outright would not issue any concealed LTCs at all what so ever despite many lawsuits. It was her legal option which she executed. (She is gone and residents are now able to attainnLtCs)
Also in mass there is no difference between purchasing a firearm weather at an established gun shop or at a gun show. Here in mass anytime a legal firearm sale is made the dealer needs to call the atf with all buyer and seller info right there on the spot and wait for approval from the federal ATF before transaction can be completed
Only loop hole in mass that is slowly being closed is private sale from one person to another.

It is tragic that incidents such as this are on the rise in other parts of the country

No amount of legislation will stop or curb those illegally possesing firearms from using them illegally becuase they already dont care about the laws anyway
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[redlite]

Also the NRA has no political representation/ clout in mass. Here we have an organization called G.O.A.L. - gun owners action league that supposedly fights for our rightsbas gun owners here in mass tho not really sure about what they actually accomplish
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[spence]

Originally Posted by redlite

Also the NRA has no political representation/ clout in mass. Here we have an organization called G.O.A.L. - gun owners action league that supposedly fights for our rightsbas gun owners here in mass tho not really sure about what they actually accomplish
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Perhaps the answer is here?

http://timelines.latimes.com/deadlie...ting-rampages/

[basswipe]

MY god!!!!!

How about ban "gun free" zones and arm the damn campus police!!!Instant fix!!!

We can find billions of dollars to give illegals everything for free but we can't find a goddamn dime to have a cop or well trained security guard at a school to protect our children.

To the guy who started this thread:there's a reason why people like you get lost in a one stalk corn-maze.

[spence]

Originally Posted by basswipe

MY god!!!!!

How about ban "gun free" zones and arm the damn campus police!!!Instant fix!!!

We can find billions of dollars to give illegals everything for free but we can't find a goddamn dime to have a cop or well trained security guard at a school to protect our children.

To the guy who started this thread:there's a reason why people like you get lost in a one stalk corn-maze.

Welcome back

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

I certainly never examined Mr. Mercer, but these details, if true, may point to conditions like schizoid personality disorder, Asperberger’s syndrome or even schizophrenia, any of which can dramatically limit the ability to socialize and empathize with others, contribute to feelings of emptiness and isolation and spawn anything from intense depression to paranoid delusions.

It's Aspergers Syndrome. I really hope that was just a mistake by a tech writer or web admin...but this guy has a reputation as being a Fox News dope so who knows...

[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by basswipe

MY god!!!!!

How about ban "gun free" zones and arm the damn campus police!!!Instant fix!!!

We can find billions of dollars to give illegals everything for free but we can't find a goddamn dime to have a cop or well trained security guard at a school to protect our children.

Bravo.
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[blondterror]

The type of discussion that I wanted to start in this thread is to get some quality input from gun owners like this guy... not the negative vitrole that I have seen in the posts above... get with the program guys.. take a look at this video... here is a gun owner who realized we have a problem and he makes sense.. things need to change and this guy makes perfect sense

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10206718620758282

Yes I realize MASS has some of the toughest gun laws in the land... we need national laws and this guys ideas make a lot more sense than what we have today...

[blondterror]

Getting a gun for a young troubled man or woman should not be easy ... here is a tongue and cheek idea that questions the Right wing politicians who are in the NRA's pocket and who like they know best for Women's Reproductive rights...



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From a post that making the rounds on social media:

After yet another horrific gun massacre in the United States, how to stop these incidences from occurring is still being vehemently debated. It seems our politicians can’t agree on ANY sort of solution, because one side of the debate is too worried about getting elected, or reelected, or being shunned by the NRA.

However, there is currently a Facebook post being circulated that offers a pretty great solution, and it also points out how horribly women are treated and how many hurdles they have to jump through to have control over their own body.

The post reads:


“Or, hey, how about we treat every young man who wants to buy a gun like every woman who wants to get an abortion — mandatory 48-hr waiting period, parental permission, a note from his doctor proving he understands what he’s about to do, a video he has to watch about the effects of gun violence, an ultrasound wand up the ass (just because). Let’s close down all but one gun shop in every state and make him travel hundreds of miles, take time off work, and stay overnight in a strange town to get a gun. Make him walk through a gauntlet of people holding photos of loved ones who were shot to death, people who call him a murderer and beg him not to buy a gun.



I makes more sense to do this with young men and guns than with women and health care, right? I mean, no woman getting an abortion has killed a room full of people in seconds, right?”

[FishermanTim]

Not a gun owner (except for a bb rifle).
I believe in the 2nd amendment.

As for these shooters, rules and regulations regarding gun ownership only serve to restrict the ability of those that should be able to obtain them. It will not serve as a deterrent for any of these mental-defectives to prevent them from doing harm on a large scale. Background checks will not weed out those that haven't been diagnosed for or are hiding their sociopathic issues.

How could any background check find out if someone hasn't been diagnosed as manic-depressive or schizophrenic? Will they find out if he/she isn't taking their meds?

If things continue down the path they seem to be heading right now (no changes see to be on the horizon), it may be more prudent to let everyone that wants to have a gun have one. With this would be the added responsibility of the gun owners and added punishments that would result from abusing the right to own the gun.

[Rockport24]

Here's what doesn't add up: the main reason why these mass shootings are happening now more than ever is because guns are readily available.

Do you anti-gun guys believe this? So there is nothing else wrong with society that is causing this? Or is it those other wrongs just don't fit the anti agenda?

Tell me, are guns easier to get now than say, 30 years ago when these mass shootings never happened? And I'm not talking about reciprocity of licenses from state to state, background checks if anything, are required more now than ever
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

It's Aspergers Syndrome. I really hope that was just a mistake by a tech writer or web admin...but this guy has a reputation as being a Fox News dope so who knows...

this guy wrote the book

[scottw]

[QUOTE=blondterror;1083493]Getting a gun for a young troubled man or woman should not be easy ... here is a tongue and cheek idea that questions the Right wing politicians who are in the NRA's pocket and who like they know best for Women's Reproductive rights...



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moronic Facebook posts are not original ideas(sorry but that wasn't "tongue and cheek" it was dumb) ...here's a video...



I like it because it reflects what we've seen here...when pressed for an original thought...the folks cackling..."do something, we need to do something" can't come up with much in terms of thoughts beyond insults and the oft repeated "BS" that they pretend not to like...Mark Halperin, a journalist, apparently can't put a coherent thought together when it's not on a script in front of him, and Mika?...well...not much there...there...the look on the faces of Dean and whoever is sitting behind him when they pan the camera is precious, pick your jaws up off the table boys...

.Cooke also has a nice article regarding Hillary's recent posturing on the issue

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/425112/print

[tysdad115]

Blame people, not guns. This is not negative vitrole. Shall not be infringed.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

this guy wrote the book

Not on Asperbergers.

[spence]

Originally Posted by tysdad115

Blame people, not guns. This is not negative vitrole. Shall not be infringed.
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Just keep repeating that to yourself.

Here's the problem with that line of thinking. You could say the exact same thing about cars. Yet the government has invested billions in making cars safer, making highways safer and creating more regulations to make drivers safer...and it's worked...dramatically.

Did you know that current law prohibits the Government (CDC) from scientific studies on firearms deaths? We used to do it, up until the NRA lobbied to kill the funding in 1996. There's an old saying in business "you can't fix what you don't measure."

The idea that we can't even study the root causes of gun related death is absurd. Hey, if more guns makes you safer the only way to know is through long-term research.

Ultimately you have to make guns harder to get as the gun proponent in the facebook video so clearly states. It has to be Federal so Jim can't keep reciting the same absurd talking point about Chicago. It has to be long term. There are things you can do to make guns safer and harder to steal. We have to take mental heath more seriously for sure and yes, this could mean having some people's rights infringed.

But none of this is going to happen until the NRA stops using it's deep pockets to bully politicians and whip gun advocates into a panicked frenzy of fear that the boogie man is going to destroy their freedoms.