Brussels

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Your intellectual bankruptcy is beyond imagination.

Please elaborate on this, I had no idea???

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Please elaborate on this, I had no idea???

How about this...you are one of the very, very few people on the planet, who will not (or cannot, not sure which it is) admit that Hilary has an issue with the truth.

On this thread you actually chastised those who are willing to use religion as a basis for terrorism policy, when every rational person in the world can see that one religion is creating 99% of the terrorists who threaten global security?

Along those lines, I asked you this question...if I gave your kids a bowl of 100 gummy bears and told you that exactly 1 was poisoned and would kill whoever eats it...how many would you let your kids eat, before you throw the whole bowl in the garbage? Can you answer that question, please?

Now, human beings aren't the equivalent of a bowl of gummy bears...but peaceful Muslims are freely choosing to be a part of this religion, and they are freely choosing (it seems) to not effectively deal with this problem.

Now, what is the primary responsibility of any governemnt? To protect its citizenry against conceiveable threats.

Spence, during our kids' lifetimes, there will be a reckoning between the Western world, and Islam. Our kids will ask us why we didn't deal with it, they'll ask why we dumped this at their feet. It will be a fair question.

Anyway, to answer your request for elaboration...you refuse to admit that any liberal is wrong on anything, ever. If that's not thoughtless, I don't know what is. I know a lot of peopple who are similarly thoughtless, you are one of the sharper ones, and from what I can tell, one of the more decent ones. Your refusal to criticize anything that they do, is difficult to process.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Anything to substantiate your assertion is fine.

It is not my assertion,I am merely passing on information that I found to be interesting. I have no link to offer, so you may process this as false seeing it does not fit your agenda.

Out of curiosity; do you doubt that Such an area exists in Brussels?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

It is not my assertion,I am merely passing on information that I found to be interesting. I have no link to offer, so you may process this as false seeing it does not fit your agenda.

Out of curiosity; do you doubt that Such an area exists in Brussels?
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From what I've read it's a lower to middle class area but not the hotbed of violence you characterize it as. I've never read anywhere that police fear to go there, in contrast it's supposed to be pretty sedate.

Just after the Paris attacks I was having lunch with several Belgians and they were flabbergasted at how the America media was portraying the situation in their country. That doesn't mean they don't have issues...

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

From what I've read it's a lower to middle class area but not the hotbed of violence you characterize it as. I've never read anywhere that police fear to go there, in contrast it's supposed to be pretty sedate.

Just after the Paris attacks I was having lunch with several Belgians and they were flabbergasted at how the America media was portraying the situation in their country. That doesn't mean they don't have issues...

Jeff, do not read between the lines here. Please show me where I characterized it as a hotbed of violence. I was simply passing on information. The fact that your limited reading was incapable of revealing the same facts has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.
My guess is that if you were dining with this alleged group of Belgians today,their opinions of their plight may have changed.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Plants don't grow without seeds. Find out what the seeds are that create terrorism and extremists in the first place and you will see that it isn't Islam but colonialism / Zionism and capitalism.
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The seeds of terrorism and extremism were planted in Islam from its very beginning. We could say that terrorism and extremism are planted in the darkest chasms of human nature. But they rose to the utter surface in the founding and expansion of Islam. Extremism and terrorism are the basic modus operandi of Islam. Even today, in leading Islamic States such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, extremism and terrorism are key instruments used to control and influence. ISIS is a threat to existing Islamic States because it is a competitor against their control of Islam, not because it represents a destruction of Islam or bastardization of it.

If anything, colonialism temporarily blunted Islamic extremism and terrorism. And those who control Islamic States are no less interested in wealth than capitalists are. They have always been so, but they go about it not by producing, buying, and selling, but mostly by confiscation.

As for Zionism, I'm no fan or apologist, but it, not Islamic terrorism and extremism, has been a reactive movement. And it is not what planted the seed of terror in Islam

[Sea Dangles]

I believe if you google Molenbeek and have enough time to read all of the articles,then you will find enough to see the information I forwarded is credible.
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[Nebe]

Think hard now. Think of the days before bush and when and why suicide bombers did their deeds. I know you can do it!

Life is not cause and effect. Life is a series of events that lead to another series of events. 5 plus 5 is 10 but 1 plus 1 a number of times equals 10 as well.

Saying Islam Is evil because they have suicide bombers is like saying that there is only 10 and forgetting that you need at least 9 other things to add to it to get there.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Think hard now. Think of the days before bush and when and why suicide bombers did their deeds. I know you can do it!

Life is not cause and effect. Life is a series of events that lead to another series of events. 5 plus 5 is 10 but 1 plus 1 a number of times equals 10 as well.

Saying Islam Is evil because they have suicide bombers is like saying that there is only 10 and forgetting that you need at least 9 other things to add to it to get there.
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Yet many condemn the Catholic religion because of a few very dispicable molesters . Tell me you don't look at priest differently now . Sadly even I do and I spent 12 years in Catholic schools .
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Yet many condemn the Catholic religion because of a few very dispicable molesters . Tell me you don't look at priest differently now . Sadly even I do and I spent 12 years in Catholic schools .
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Most people I know don't "condemn the Catholic religion because of a few very dispicable molesters," they condemn the decades long systemic efforts by senior members of the entire church to cover it up.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Most people I know don't "condemn the Catholic religion because of a few very dispicable molesters," they condemn the decades long systemic efforts by senior members of the entire church to cover it up.

Bingo. That's the problem with Islam .
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by buckman

Bingo. That's the problem with Islam .
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Yes. That's the problem. Not Islam itself.
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[Nebe]

Again. Cause and effect. A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause. The effect is pedophilia. If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away. I don't view Catholic religion as a whole badly because of that problem. If it brings people security and happiness, then I'm happy for them.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Again. Cause and effect. A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause. The effect is pedophilia. If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away. I don't view Catholic religion as a whole badly because of that problem. If it brings people security and happiness, then I'm happy for them.
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Yea I don't think so . Good thing you're not a theripist
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Again. Cause and effect. A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause. The effect is pedophilia. If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away. I don't view Catholic religion as a whole badly because of that problem. If it brings people security and happiness, then I'm happy for them.
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"A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause"

Jesus God Almighty, you are saying that the priest lifestylye turned these guys (who were previously normal) into monsters? First, they were't "pedophiles" they were "homosexual predators" (the victims were overwhelmingly post-puberty boys...that's NOT pedophilia, it's homosexual predation, but you won't hear many liberals say that out loud). They were homosexual predators who lied their way into the priesthood to have access to victims. At that time in our history (when we didn't know much about these abusers) it was also happenig in schools and with doctors. Did those professions "turn" previously normal people into the monsters they became? No. They were monsters to begin with.

Nebe, no priest ever said as he was abusing these boys "God Bless Jesus who commanded me to do this". The religion had nohting to do with their hideous actions. The jihadists, on the other hand, are motivated purely be religion.

No comparison, except for the damage done to victims, of course.

"If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away"

Then please explain why there are sexual predators in many other professions that don't prohibit one from getting married.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Again. Cause and effect. A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause. The effect is pedophilia. If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away. I don't view Catholic religion as a whole badly because of that problem. If it brings people security and happiness, then I'm happy for them.
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Really?? You can't have sex with women so little boys will have to do. If you couldn't have sex with women would the Paperboy start looking good.

Then explain Little League coaches, scout leaders, and other youth organizations that have had to deal with that problem.

It takes a damaged person to commit those atrocities to children. Not lack of nookie

Like was stated, the problem was with the cover up and allowing it to go on.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Really?? You can't have sex with women so little boys will have to do. If you couldn't have sex with women would the Paperboy start looking good.

Then explain Little League coaches, scout leaders, and other youth organizations that have had to deal with that problem.

It takes a damaged person to commit those atrocities to children. Not lack of nookie

Like was stated, the problem was with the cover up and allowing it to go on.
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Don't forget married men 😂
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Really?? You can't have sex with women so little boys will have to do. If you couldn't have sex with women would the Paperboy start looking good.

Then explain Little League coaches, scout leaders, and other youth organizations that have had to deal with that problem.

It takes a damaged person to commit those atrocities to children. Not lack of nookie

Like was stated, the problem was with the cover up and allowing it to go on.
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Compare that to jihadists, who may have been deranged before they found Islam. But at a minimum, Islam is fueling the fire of their homicidal tendencies. And in some cases at least, Islam was the original spark.

Comparing jihadists to the gay priests is crazy. Better to compare them to those who bomb abortion clinics, those are maniacs who are killing in the name of their religion. And they have killed, what, 12 people since abortion was legalized? They need to be routed from our midst, just like the jihadists.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

.

Cause and effect. A catholic priest is forced to stay unwed and not have sexual relations with women. That's the cause. The effect is pedophilia. If the pope was to have that rule changed I believe that that problem would go away.


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what the hell are you smokin' lately

[Sea Dangles]

Additionally, if you actually did Google Molenbeek then you certainly would have come to a similar conclusion based on every article that displays regarding the area. Did you expect it to be a high income area where food and beverage are the draw? Would you drop Junior off for karate lessons there? What about Mrs Spence,would you feel safe leaving her there for her hair and nails?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Additionally, if you actually did Google Molenbeek then you certainly would have come to a similar conclusion based on every article that displays regarding the area. Did you expect it to be a high income area where food and beverage are the draw? Would you drop Junior off for karate lessons there? What about Mrs Spence,would you feel safe leaving her there for her hair and nails?
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Great points. Spence, this is the problem with the Muslim culture - when they immigrate to a new place (like Belgium), they don't make any attempts to assimmilate. So you have an area that's populated by illiterate, unemployable people who don't speak the language, and they make no effort to improve their standing. They have no desire to adopt a Belgian lifestyle. So they build these little enclaves in Belgium that look like the sh*tholes they left in Syria, way more than they resemble any other place in Belgium.

Sweden is further down this path, and they are getting ready to kick 'em all out.

Teddy Roosevelt once said "immigration without assimilation, is an invasion". A western nation can certainly have many ethnicities. It can only have one culture. I don't want a bunch of miniature versions of Syria here in the US, where the girls are beaten and not allowed to go to school. If a nation allows these people to live there, the Muslims have the responsibility of assimmilating a bit. And by and large, they won't. And that's on them, not on us.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I see your link and raise you this one.

http://www.thenation.com/article/her...isiss-motives/
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Contrary to the article's contention that suicide bombings are about strictly secular acquisition of territory and resources, religious fervor is an important part of the equation.

The example of Tamil Tigers, Marxists, once being the world leader in suicide attacks, negating the idea that religious fervor is the sole motive for those attacks, misses the overall point that doctrine is motive whether its secular Marxism or fundamentalist Islam. Both types of suicide bombings are matters of doctrine. It would be idiotic for a suicide bomber to kill himself in order to gain territory or resources, at least so in this earthly life. But it would be rational if he believes he would gain resources in the next life.

And the article misses the whole point of Islam. The article separates secular desire from religious desire. That separation may exist in most other major religions, but there is no such separation in Islam. Islam, in its theocratic doctrine, is a secular religion. It is closer to Marxism than to Western secular democracy. And, like Marxism, it wishes to expand its territorial dominance worldwide. The major difference between the two, I suppose, is some notion of an all powerful Allah in one, and an all powerful dictatorship of some proletariat in the other. But in the end, each physically eliminates or subjugates dissidents and creates a utopia for the faithful. Socialism is not a whole lot different.

The article says 95% of suicide attacks since 1980 have in common that all are a response to military intervention. Even though there may have been different doctrines which provoked the suicide attacks, whether Marxists, nationalistic, religious, etc., it, again emphasizes the common thread, "military intervention," and avoids the different threads of doctrine. Which subtly negates the importance of doctrine.

And it discounts the motive for military intervention. It is cast as the sole boogey man. But military intervention is also a matter of doctrine. And there are different doctrinal motives for intervention. Some, as in US intervention, are actually a response to a foreign doctrine, such as Islam, that has attacked the US and threatens to continue to do so. And, in the case of Islam, its attacks have occurred before military intervention as a means to establish Islamic control.

The article wants to make foreign occupation as the motive for ISIS suicide bombings, but it doesn't account for the spread of so-called radical Islamism other than tracing the emergence of ISIS back to Afghan resistance to soviet occupation. But he doesn't account for the spread of Islam into previously unoccupied territories which were not Islamic. That spread has been true of Islam since its founding. Before Islam, the Middle East was diverse with a good deal of territory being Christian or Jewish. Not long ago, Lebanon was 80% Christian. Now it's more than 80% Muslim and growing more so.

The takeover of the Middle East and other Eastern countries by Islam was not due to revolts against foreign occupation. Islam was the invader of non-Islamic territories. It was not foreign "military intervention" against Muslims which created the expansion of Islam, it was the military intervention and terroristic tactics of Muslims against others which created that expansion. It was a theocratic radical named Muhammad who created a doctrine which called for world domination by his followers.

The article uses Abu Hamza as a source. Yet Abu Hamza became disillusioned with ISIS because the leaders, according to him, were not "good Muslims." That is, "they just wanted power." He called the foreign recruits "good Muslims." I presume by that he meant they were inspired by Islam not by acquisition of power. But the problem with that is that what he calls "good Muslims" have a different view of Islam than did its founder. Even the leaders of the epicenters of Islam, Saudi Arabia and Iran, have different views of Islam than what Hamza naively believes are "good Muslims." As McCarthy pointed out in the article posted by fishpart, what fundamentalist Islamists such as the Blind Sheikh, and by extension others such as ISIS, practice is in accordance to Islam's founding scripture. "Moderate" Muslims, like Hamza perhaps is, believe Islam is some religion of peace even though that is not demonstrated by scripture. As McCarthy pointed out, average Muslims can't answer fundamental questions about their theocracy. They leave that up to the Islamic scholars, such as the Blind Sheikh for instance, to say what doctrine means. And if they say Islam is a religion of peace, they literally accept that. Some, like Hamza, also accept that it is their duty, as a "good muslim" to jihad against those who threaten Islam. But, from what Hamza said about the leaders of ISIS, he probably would not agree with what Muhammad did if he knew the historical record rather than accepting the religious indoctrination that Muhammad was the perfect man. And if all "good" people, as he no doubt assumes he is, felt back in the day, as he does now, Islam may never have been created.

A reformation of Islam would have to condemn its founder in the same way that so many Muslims now claim to condemn radical Islamists. So a reformation of Islam would require the evolution of a totally new religion.

[Jim in CT]

How does it help the GOP to suppress Democratic voting in the primary? In the general election, yes. In the primary? What's to be gained?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

How does it help the GOP to suppress Democratic voting in the primary? In the general election, yes. In the primary? What's to be gained?

I thought I hit new thread guess not

[Sea Dangles]

Jeff : "Please don' t harm me, I voted for Hillary."
Terrorist: "You have a purty mouth."
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[wdmso]

The suicide blast, in the eastern Pakistan city of Lahore, killed at least 69 people, a local government spokesman told CNN.

"Mostly women and children are killed and injured in the blast target Christians and others near a kids amusement park ride



Its not just Americans or European or our way of life that extremist target they just want to kill violence is their only weapon 1 bomb gives them more advertising and voice than a 1million peaceful protest

They don't need much of a reason to kill

[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Jeff : "Please don' t harm me, I voted for Hillary."
Terrorist: "You have a purty mouth."
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Didn't the guy who said that take an arrow through the head?

[Nebe]

Slip, you do realize that defend has a different definition than attack, right?
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[Slipknot]

It is my belief that the best defense is a strong offense, we don't have a strong offense. Nebe, if we can find them then attack is ok by me.

no need to carpet bomb, I agree that will make matters worse.

mistakes have been made, there is time to correct them

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

It is my belief that the best defense is a strong offense, we don't have a strong offense.

We have the Number 1 offense in the league......its just that the coach is choosing to sit on the ball and run out the clock.
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