Its getting old already

[RIJIMMY]

WILLIAMSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- President Barack Obama said Thursday that "the scale and the scope" of his economic plan is right, turning up the heat on critics he said were hawking "phony arguments" and "false theories of the past" to chip away at the bill's programs.


President Obama said if a stimulus bill isn't passed the economy will continue to get worse.

"Don't come to the table with the same tired arguments and worn ideas that helped to create this crisis," the president said at the House Democrats' annual retreat in Williamsburg


Come on, does he have anything better than, "tired arguments and worn ideas"? Why doesent he provide some details or analyis on WHY his plan would work? Its like he is a one line comedian that has run out of material. Why isnt Geitner coming out with a detail of the plans? What the benefits are? Even Nebe is getting tired of big O and its only been a FEW WEEKS!!!!!!

[EarnedStripes44]

WHY his plan would work? I dont think any consensus on the matter is absolute. Its a complicated issue- the science behind the economics that is. To "know the price of everything and the value of nothing" bespeaks to the contestable nature of the situation.

[spence]

Instead of wasting time seething with hate over the issue, why don't you simply look at the homework done by the Obama economic team?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog_post/..._fifty_states/

http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf

Detailed breakdown by economic experts by state and industry as to potential benefits of the stimulus package.

I'm not saying I agree with all of it, but Jesus, talk about something getting old already.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

shouldnt he be spending more time explaining the merits of the proposal rather than critizing those that question it and dismissing their oppostion as petty politics? We were sold on how intelligent he is and how articulate he is, I'm hearing the same old lines over and over. Since when is intelligent debate a bad thing? He is still preaching his "America wants change ,,,,,blah blah", even after he is elected. Americans dont want change, they want improvment. he needs to demonstrate that, not criticize the opposition. Most Americans are now AGAINST the stimulus.

[RIJIMMY]

suck it up big guy, this ain't the Illinois Senate.

Stabbing hard at Republicans who once aligned themselves with his predecessor, Obama made it clear that the problems he seeks to address with his recovery plan weren’t ones of his making.

“When you start hearing arguments, on the cable chatter, just understand a couple of things,” he said. “No. 1, when they say, ‘Well, why are we spending $800 billion [when] we’ve got this huge deficit?’ – first of all, I found this deficit when I showed up, No. 1.

“I found this national debt, doubled, wrapped in a big bow waiting for me as I stepped into the Oval Office.”

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

“I found this national debt, doubled, wrapped in a big bow waiting for me as I stepped into the Oval Office.”

It almost sounds like he was unaware that the debt was as bad as it was. He's already starting to get testy and he's only been on the job for 2 + weeks. He's going to age pretty quickly over the next 4 years. He picked a pretty bad time to give up smoking.

[The Dad Fisherman]

looks like he picked the wrong time to quit sniffing glue....

[justplugit]

Obama was using the fear tactic of 'Emergency, Emergency, Doomsday"'in his appearances yesterday, trying to get the bill HE wants passed in 10 days.

Now he is forming an economic advisory board with members from different industries, economists, etc.
Good idea, but shouldn't that have been done for input before the stimulus bill was written.

Got the tail wagging the dog.

Now we are sitting with a bill 10 telephone books thick.

Transparency could be made simple:

Name of program-- How many jobs it creates in what industries-- Cost $$$

Ya know a stimulus plan for dummies like me.

[Tagger]

took 8 yrs. to dig this hole .. a few weeks and cry babys are throwing tomato's already .. Help out or get out ..

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Now he is forming an economic advisory board with members from different industries, economists, etc.
Good idea, but shouldn't that have been done for input before the stimulus bill was written.

He's had a large team of economists all through the campaign.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Tagger

took 8 yrs. to dig this hole .. a few weeks and cry babys are throwing tomato's already .. Help out or get out ..

is that really your impression? YES I see people trying to find the right solution and that requires debate, discussion and compromise. I agree ..

[justplugit]

My point is he should of had this new board of industry, labor, financial etc. have input into the bill when it was written,

not just the same old same old politicians in Washington out of touch with the working man, writing it.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

He's had a large team of economists all through the campaign.

-spence

They why is he so surprised at how rapidly the economy is falling apart? Why didn't he see this 3 months ago when he was pushing the Democrats last bailout? Maybe the team isn't that good

This isn't a stimulas bill. It's a freakin spend fest . They are having a social program orgy on the backs of our children and using scare tactics to pass it.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

They why is he so surprised at how rapidly the economy is falling apart? Why didn't he see this 3 months ago when he was pushing the Democrats last bailout? Maybe the team isn't that good

Had he seen how bad it would be three months ago he probably would have lost the election because of his negative attitude!

This isn't a stimulas bill. It's a freakin spend fest . They are having a social program orgy on the backs of our children and using scare tactics to pass it.

I think there's a good amount of spending in the bill that's not necessary. That being said, according to the GOP anything that's not a tax cut is considered socialism.

So hundreds of Billions to banks with zero accountability is ok but if we give money to the working class and poor it's considered waste?

I think a month ago you agreed that we did need to stir both sides of the pot.

It looks like the Senate might have agreed to a compramise bill that's 42% tax cuts. If so that's a good thing, this needs to be a bi-partisan solution...that definately works in Obama's favor.

-spence

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

looks like he picked the wrong time to quit sniffing glue....

Didn't he admit to doing crack ???

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Didn't he admit to doing crack ???

Did he? Can you please post a link.

[RIJIMMY]

from an article by Ed Koch -

Finally, I am fearful that radicals in the Democratic Party who support programs such as healthcare and education reform that I have supported over the years will seek to impose those programs by fiat without congressional hearings and laws, by inserting them in the stimulus legislation. On what do I base that fear? Here are two news reports.

A Jan. 28 New York Times article by Robert Pear stated, “The stimulus bill working its way through Congress is not just a package of spending increases and tax cuts intended to jolt the nation out of recession. For Democrats, it is also a tool for rewriting the social contract with the poor, the uninsured and the unemployed, in ways they have long yearned to do. With little notice and no public hearings, House Democrats would create a temporary new entitlement allowing workers getting unemployment checks to qualify for Medicaid, the heath program for low-income people. Spouses and children could also receive benefits, no matter how much money the family had. In addition, the stimulus package would offer a hefty subsidy to help laid-off workers retain the same health plans they had from their former employers. Altogether, the economic recovery bill would speed $127 billion over the next two and a half years to individuals and states for healthcare alone, a fact that has Republicans fuming that the stimulus package is a back door to universal health coverage . . . As Congress rushes to inject cash into a listless economy, it is setting aside many of the restraints that have checked new domestic spending for more than a decade. The White House said the changes contemplated by Congress would provide coverage for nearly 8.5 million newly uninsured people who had lost their jobs and would protect Medicaid for many more whose eligibility would otherwise be at risk.”

On the same day, Jan. 28, also in The New York Times, Sam Dillon reported, “The economic stimulus plan that Congress has scheduled for a vote on Wednesday would shower the nation’s school districts, child care centers and university campuses with $150 billion in new federal spending, a vast two-year investment that would more than double the Department of Education’s current budget. The proposed emergency expenditures on nearly every realm of education, including school renovation, special education, Head Start and grants to needy college students, would amount to the largest increase in federal aid since Washington began to spend significantly on education after World War II. Critics and supporters alike said that by its sheer scope, the measure could profoundly change the federal government’s role in education, which has traditionally been the responsibility of state and local government.”


Although I support the ultimate goals of the new Democratic congressional majority for significant changes in our society, I do not want those changes imposed through stealth. I want them debated and voted on by a Congress able to sort out the good from the bad in shaping legislation. That is not what is happening now. According to Pear’s New York Times article, “Democrats said the current economic crisis did not allow time for public hearings on the legislation.”

For me, this is a form of tyranny and is not acceptable. The ends here do not justify the means. There is no need or excuse for stealth.

[ProfessorM]

Maybe its just me but it seems that the gentleman that is now responsible for getting us out of this mess is taking more heat and criticism for trying to come up with a solution than the guy who got us into this mess. What is so hard about working together and figuring out a solution to this mess instead of pointing out each others flaws. Forget about which party you belong to and figure out something that is good for the country and not a particular party. Seems like common sense to me, but what the hell do I know.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

Maybe its just me but it seems that the gentleman that is now responsible for getting us out of this mess is taking more heat and criticism for trying to come up with a solution than the guy who got us into this mess. What is so hard about working together and figuring out a solution to this mess instead of pointing out each others flaws. Forget about which party you belong to and figure out something that is good for the country and not a particular party. Seems like common sense to me, but what the hell do I know.

No - you are absolutely right. However, getting it right requires thought and debate. If you look at whats been posted, there is a ton of garbage in this stimulus. No "guy" got us into this mess, no one person, no one party, it was a number of factors over a long period of time. However, this stimulus package is the result of one guy (at least sponsoring it) and one party, thus there is a lot of criticism. We have NEVER spent this much money before and if we get this wrong, we can screw things up for decades. This bill is a big charity package that does not reward those that spent wisely. Lets stimulate by giving the money people EARNED back to the people that earned it! Lower my taxes!
I just did my 2008 last night and almost puked. I benefit from no rebate, stimulus, nothing, I jusy pay so everyone else can.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

Maybe its just me but it seems that the gentleman that is now responsible for getting us out of this mess is taking more heat and criticism for trying to come up with a solution than the guy who got us into this mess. What is so hard about working together and figuring out a solution to this mess instead of pointing out each others flaws. Forget about which party you belong to and figure out something that is good for the country and not a particular party. Seems like common sense to me, but what the hell do I know.

You're much too idealistic, Professor. Politics and common sense are mutually exclusive. They just can't go together no matter how hard anyone tries to make them.

As for the problems with the bailout, it's much more than just allocating money where it's needed. The politicians are trying to make sure it goes wherever they think it's going to help them most. By this, I mean that politicians in general are more about staying in office rather than doing what is best for their constituents.

[buckman]

A few items.

$448 million for constructing a new Homeland Security Department headquarters
$600 million to convert the federal auto fleet to hybrids
$450 million for NASA (carve-out for “climate-research missions”)
$600 million for NOAA (carve-out for “climate modeling”)
$1 billion for the Census Bureau
$89 billion for Medicaid
$30 billion for COBRA insurance extension
$36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits
$20 billion for food stamps
$4.5 billion for U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
$850 million for Amtrak
$87 million for a polar icebreaking ship
$1.7 billion for the National Park System
$55 million for Historic Preservation Fund
$7.6 billion for “rural community advancement programs”
$150 million for agricultural-commodity purchases
$150 million for “producers of livestock, honeybees, and farm-raised fish”

That's right 448 mil. for a freakin building.
600 mil. for new cars. Thats above and beyond the current budget

[buckman]

It also appears that the vast majority of American's agree with the Republican stance on the "stimulas bill" Thank God for the Republicans or this B.S. bill would have passed with out any changes.

National Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters

Conducted February 6-7, 2009

By Rasmussen Reports



1* Generally speaking, do increases in government spending help the economy, hurt the economy, or have no impact on the economy?


35% Help
48% Hurt

7% No impact

10% Not sure


2* Generally speaking, do decreases in government spending help the economy, hurt the economy, or have no impact on the economy?


45% Help
29% Hurt

16% No impact

10% Not sure


3* As Congress debates the economic stimulus plan initially proposed by President Obama, would you like to see the plan include more tax cuts and less government spending, more government spending and less tax cuts, or would you rather see the plan pass pretty much as it is today?


62% More tax cuts and less government spending
14% More government spending and less tax cuts

20% Pass pretty much as it is today

5% Not sure


NOTE: Margin of Sampling Error, +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by buckman

A few items.

$448 million for constructing a new Homeland Security Department headquarters
$600 million to convert the federal auto fleet to hybrids
$450 million for NASA (carve-out for “climate-research missions”)
$600 million for NOAA (carve-out for “climate modeling”)
$1 billion for the Census Bureau
$89 billion for Medicaid
$30 billion for COBRA insurance extension
$36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits
$20 billion for food stamps
$4.5 billion for U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
$850 million for Amtrak
$87 million for a polar icebreaking ship
$1.7 billion for the National Park System
$55 million for Historic Preservation Fund
$7.6 billion for “rural community advancement programs”
$150 million for agricultural-commodity purchases
$150 million for “producers of livestock, honeybees, and farm-raised fish”

That's right 448 mil. for a freakin building.
600 mil. for new cars. Thats above and beyond the current budget

I get the STD study got removed!
I don't think stimulus is the way to go in a D-cession, tax cuts fuel innovation and investment
Stimulus you put it in the bank

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by buckman

It also appears that the vast majority of American's agree with the Republican stance on the "stimulas bill" Thank God for the Republicans or this B.S. bill would have passed with out any changes.

Didn't the "Republicans just push that BS bank bill thru with absolutely NO acountability ? Was that 700 billion ? 800 with tax incentives . Nice ....

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Tagger

Didn't the "Republicans just push that BS bank bill thru with absolutely NO acountability ? Was that 700 billion ? 800 with tax incentives . Nice ....

We can't talk about that.
it was the last administration.
Congress over saw it not Bush
forget the past.
nothing to see there

[The Dad Fisherman]

Eddie, Everybody here wants to point at a Party to blame...makes them feel better I guess....but the Realization is that ALL, EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN is a Scumbag.....Don't matter what their party affiliation is, they ALL rake us over the coals at some point in time.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Eddie, Everybody here wants to point at a Party to blame...makes them feel better I guess....but the Realization is that ALL, EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN is a Scumbag.....Don't matter what their party affiliation is, they ALL rake us over the coals at some point in time.

I have to chuckle that for years its been "Bush Sucks!" , now its all politicians are bad once the Dems have power.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I have to chuckle that for years its been "Bush Sucks!" , now its all politicians are bad once the Dems have power.

Why Chuckle....Bush did Suck....and I gave you my reasons and it had nothing to do with Party did it.....

I couldn't stand Bush the Man....not Bush the Republican.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Tagger

Didn't the "Republicans just push that BS bank bill thru with absolutely NO acountability ? Was that 700 billion ? 800 with tax incentives . Nice ....

No it was Bush and the Democrats.Not the conservative Republicans. Don't you remember Pelousi's speach, that the Republicans were blocking the bailout bill and that they needed more Republicans on board. The Democrats needed more Republicans to sign on. How quickly we forget. That's the most dangerous thng of all.

As for Obama,he loves to say that he "inherited a trillion dollar deficit" which is true (though as a member of Congress he voted for most of it), What he neglects to mention is that his solution is to double down and make it a TWO trillion dollar deficit in his first 3 weeks. He out right lied to the American people last night when he said there were no ear marks in the current bill. How freakin stupid does he think we are.
Don't answer that, I think you already have.

[RIJIMMY]

he also lied last night by saying the Bush tax cuts are part of what got us into this mess. There is ZERO to back that up and it makes no sense.