this mosque thing is blowin up for Barry

[RIJIMMY]

do they have the right - yes.
Is it insensitive to do this in that location - I think so, and so do a lot of Americans.
What adds on to this is most Americans, including me, do not see the "non - terrorist" muslims being vocal or providing any leadership in the fight against terrorism. So its a one way street - we want the religious freedom to build where we want but we are not with "america" in your fight.
If this was a muslim center for understanding or peace or human rights, etc - I think you'd see a different reaction.

[Nebe]

Any Japanese temples at pearl harbor?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Any Japanese temples at pearl harbor?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

they own pearl harbor and everything surrounding it. see what a great country we live in? Its suprising what hard work and partnership can do to heal wounds. Japan is our strongest ally.

[JohnnyD]

It's been a while since I've seen people attempt to legitimately justify their own bigotry and ignorance.

Hey buck, how about we put all the Muslims in internment camps like they did with the Japanese during WWII?




*Edit* Damn you nebe for beating me to a WWII reference.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

It's been a while since I've seen people attempt to legitimately justify their own bigotry and ignorance.

Hey buck, how about we put all the Muslims in internment camps like they did with the Japanese during WWII?




*Edit* Damn you nebe for beating me to a WWII reference.

Good point JD. I never thought of that.

[PaulS]

Check out the Mosque only 80 feet from the Pentagon. Your heads will explode.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Check out the Mosque only 80 feet from the Pentagon. Your heads will explode.

factcheck....

The truth is that there is no "mosque" in the Pentagon, according to Army spokesman George Wright. There is a chapel inside the Pentagon where Muslim employees can go to pray, as ABC News recently reported. It’s just not exclusive to followers of Islam.

The Pentagon’s non-denominational chapel was built and dedicated in 2002 in honor of Pentagon employees and passengers of American Airlines Flight 77 who died in the terrorist attack on the building on Sept. 11, 2001. The chapel was constructed at the site where the hijacked plane crashed into the Pentagon nearly nine years ago.

Wright told us that the chapel, which can seat about 100 people, hosts services throughout the week for Pentagon employees of various faiths including Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Episcopalians, Hindus and Muslims. Wright said that the chapel’s schedule for the week of August 16 actually includes daily mass for Catholics; Bible study sessions for Protestants, Jews and members of the Church of Latter Day Saints; as well as a prayer service for Muslims.

The chapel is run by the Office of the Pentagon Chaplain, and prior to its construction, all religious services were reportedly held in either conference rooms, auditoriums or informal prayer rooms inside the Pentagon

[PaulS]

Thanks for the correction - the newspaper I saw it in said "Mosque".

[buckman]

[FishermanTim]

Now that Nancy Pelosi has stuck her pig-nose into this subject (Pelosi wants to investigate mosque foes), can we all agree that the subject has now "jumped the shark"?
When we have people that are completely unqualified to think, let alone talk in the media about a subject then we truly are lost as a civilized country.
Who will chime in next?
Maybe Jerry Springer has a comment?
Or Oprah?
Or maybe some celebrity pundit will spew forth pearls of wisdom about a topic they know nothing about?

There, now I'm done.

Let the mosque-fest continue.

[Joe]

From a moral perspective, it's not a good idea to build the mosque.
But I think it's a good political decision to support the building of the mosque. Figure some militia group in Idaho is already stock piling diesel and nitrogen-based fertilizer - the mosque won't last long. This way he can support the mosque and memorialize it too.

[EarnedStripes44]

This is a non issue

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

This is a non issue

yup. It really is. Its a shame there is so much anger in the world...

Religion sucks. Especially when you get into the 'my religion is better than yours ' mindset.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

This is a non issue

I would think you would want to ask the 3000 families and friends of those murdered on 9-11 if they think it's a non issue.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by justplugit

I would think you would want to ask the 3000 families and friends of those murdered on 9-11 if they think it's a non issue.

Some here would consider them idiotic bigots.

[Nebe]

this is great

Extremist Makeover - Homeland Edition - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 08/19/2010 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

this is great

Extremist Makeover - Homeland Edition - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 08/19/2010 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

Yep, once again he nails it...

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

Some here would consider them idiotic bigots.

Originally Posted by JD

"Because they aren't idiotic bigots that believe in the Constitution.
Why are so many on the Right that have stated Obama stomps on the Constitution also so quick to discriminate a group based on their religion?" .

wow, I thought that it was only right wing bigot, racist, intolerant haters that opposed the trophy mosque...maybe if some here spent less time with their primary source of news and information...Comedy Central...they wouldn't make such errors in assertions...


Mosque debate divides Democrats, especially in NY

Mosque debate divides Democrats, especially in NY - Yahoo! News

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

wow, I thought that it was only right wing bigot, racist, intolerant haters that opposed the trophy mosque...maybe if some here spent less time with their primary source of news and information...Comedy Central...they wouldn't make such errors in assertions...


Mosque debate divides Democrats, especially in NY

Mosque debate divides Democrats, especially in NY - Yahoo! News

This is I think the second time today I think you've posted stories without really reading them.

-spence

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

I would think you would want to ask the 3000 families and friends of those murdered on 9-11 if they think it's a non issue.

Originally Posted by buckman

Some here would consider them idiotic bigots.

Hmmm....
Some family members of 9/11 victims to support mosque construction - CNN.com

The coalition's goals include support of "religious freedom and diversity" and the rejection of "crude stereotypes meant to frighten and divide us."

People in here need to start being reminded of the Constitution, the right to religious freedom and that the government cannot discriminate based on religion. People also need to stop vilifying an entire population based on the actions of a micro-percentage of that group.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

People also need to stop vilifying an entire population based on the actions of a micro-percentage of that group.

Good Luck with that......

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Hmmm....
Some family members of 9/11 victims to support mosque construction - CNN.com

People also need to stop vilifying an entire population based on the actions of a micro-percentage of that group.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________


Misleading article title listed as ""some family members of 9/11victims to support
mosque contruction" and left out "AND Denounce NYC Islamic Ctr.

Article's main theme was coalition of 40 relegious and civic organizations to
show support ,not some 9/11 victims to support Mosque.

The article spoke of some 9/11 victims were reliving some of the post traumatic
syndrome because of the controversy. I agree with your statement of not vilifying
an entire population on the actions of a few, however it is upto the many to
speak up against the few and in the this case where a relegious group is
involved there should be no problem in taking the feelings of the victims into
account as relegion should be about how you treat your fellow man.

Kinda like the milk of human kindness is needed.

[Joe]

Unless this is a Holy War at its core - the Last Crusade, if you will. And all this time we've been trying desperately to delude ourselves into not believing in a holy-war-in-terrorism's-clothing. My catechism education has been at odds with my belief in freedom and democracy for some time. It would be easier to discount if events were not playing out in such a scripted, apocalyptic fashion.

[detbuch]

This would be good fodder for a South Park episode. Lots of ironic humor here.

People spouting "hallowed ground?" Did they forget to put an "S" in front of the word? Nearly 10 years and still no fabulous monument. Are the plans still going forward? Does our secular society really care any more about things sacred or profane? Sometimes it makes good fodder for the next election. In the meantime, while we impotently dither over constructing a monument on this hallowed ground, the Muslims are powerfully focused on building a mosque there.

And it must be in or in the immediate proximity of that spot. And you must understand the reason that it must be there and nowhere else. It is a bridge to peace--a reaching out to show the goodwill of the muslim community (not a large financial contribution to build the stalled monument to the fallen of 9/11, or to ease the pain of those who lost loved ones there, but . . .a mosque). Somewhat similar to a man who in some blind rage beats his wife, then realizing it was not so nice to do, he makes amends by buying himself a new set of golf clubs--a gift to show he understands her pain.

And then we get the reciprocal show of understanding and peace from the POTUS. They have a constitutional right to build that mosque, this is America. Don't we understand that? Well, of course we do--never was an issue. But . . . coming from someone who sees so much in the Constitution that doesn't exist . . . ? For folks like O and his side of politics, the Constitution is a living, breathing thing that changes with time and opinion. Just about anything, if you use enough slippery language and have judges who "interpret" it your way, is constitutional.

Perhaps we need to be reminded that things that live and breath, eventually stop doing so. And, in the limited realm of perception that we humans are prone to, death is a disappearance, not a change.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

This would be good fodder for a South Park episode. Lots of ironic humor here.

People spouting "hallowed ground?" Did they forget to put an "S" in front of the word? Nearly 10 years and still no fabulous monument. Are the plans still going forward? Does our secular society really care any more about things sacred or profane? Sometimes it makes good fodder for the next election. In the meantime, while we impotently dither over constructing a monument on this hallowed ground, the Muslims are powerfully focused on building a mosque there.

And it must be in or in the immediate proximity of that spot. And you must understand the reason that it must be there and nowhere else. It is a bridge to peace--a reaching out to show the goodwill of the muslim community (not a large financial contribution to build the stalled monument to the fallen of 9/11, or to ease the pain of those who lost loved ones there, but . . .a mosque). Somewhat similar to a man who in some blind rage beats his wife, then realizing it was not so nice to do, he makes amends by buying himself a new set of golf clubs--a gift to show he understands her pain.

And then we get the reciprocal show of understanding and peace from the POTUS. They have a constitutional right to build that mosque, this is America. Don't we understand that? Well, of course we do--never was an issue. But . . . coming from someone who sees so much in the Constitution that doesn't exist . . . ? For folks like O and his side of politics, the Constitution is a living, breathing thing that changes with time and opinion. Just about anything, if you use enough slippery language and have judges who "interpret" it your way, is constitutional.

Perhaps we need to be reminded that things that live and breath, eventually stop doing so. And, in the limited realm of perception that we humans are prone to, death is a disappearance, not a change.

I see Detbutch has been on a David Carradine cinematic bender

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

quick and simple questions for Johnny D and Spence -
1. Do you want anti- abortion protestors at Planned Parenthood heckling girls as they enter?
2. Do you want anti-military protestors at the funerals of service men/women KIA?

The fact is they have the constitutional right to do those things. However most people dont think its the right thing to do. Exact same thing as this mosque, simple concept that you do not seem to be able to grasp.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

quick and simple questions for Johnny D and Spence -
1. Do you want anti- abortion protestors at Planned Parenthood heckling girls as they enter?
2. Do you want anti-military protestors at the funerals of service men/women KIA?

The fact is they have the constitutional right to do those things. However most people dont think its the right thing to do. Exact same thing as this mosque, simple concept that you do not seem to be able to grasp.

I think you're missing with this one.

In both cases, the protests can be considered out of the mainstream. Perhaps less so for anti-abortion advocates , but certainly the groups protesting the military are way, way out there.

The abortion issue may be closer as there is a large % of Americans that do believe in the right to life issue, but the majority wouldn't join a picket line. But when you think about it, drawing a parallel between when life begins and religious fanaticism is a really big stretch!

So same issue I say they are not.

-spence

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

quick and simple questions for Johnny D and Spence -
1. Do you want anti- abortion protestors at Planned Parenthood heckling girls as they enter?
2. Do you want anti-military protestors at the funerals of service men/women KIA?

The fact is they have the constitutional right to do those things. However most people dont think its the right thing to do. Exact same thing as this mosque, simple concept that you do not seem to be able to grasp.

1. Nope
2. Nope

The difference in your example is that 1 and 2 are Constitutional. Telling a particular religion that it cannot build a Muslim community center somewhere because it is offensive is not Constitutional.

It's not even close to the exact same thing because you're switching up who the antagonist is when comparing 1, 2 and the Mosque.

In 1 and 2, the protesters are the antagonists. They are being offensive with the goal of getting in the face of their opposition and either being offensive or bringing change. The Muslims trying to build their compound have not displayed an intent to offend or be antagonistic in any way. The people who don't think building this Center is the right thing, are the antagonists.

The fact is should this have been a Christian Community Center, it would have been approved quickly and there would be no news coverage. The fact is that the only reason this is a major controversy is because of the religious group involved.

My wants, needs, desires and what I am offended by have no bearing on the law. *I* am not the Constitution - *I* am not the law - *I* do not declare what is right and what is wrong; and that goes for every single person involved with this discussion. Politicians already buckle at the slightest sign a demographic might be *offended*. All this PC bulls#t is a result of people being offended. Growing up, if something offended me, I was told to suck it up... that's life. It'll be a frozen day in hell when I spend my day-to-day life walking on eggshells out of fear of offending someone and I wouldn't expect anyone else to walk on eggshells out of fear for offending me.


"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

People are allowed to be pissed about the Center and they should be allowed to voice their opinion. On the other hand, that shouldn't be a reason to prevent development of the Center.

[RIJIMMY]

the fact that neither of you get it is no suprise. Makes perfect, simple sense.
You both chose to question the motives of the protestors, thats not the issue. The issue is the RIGHT to do it. All 3 are constitutional RIGHTS. you both dove into the "act" (protest/mosque) vs. people's response/opinion. Thats what Im driving at. The response. I dont care about the correlation of the "act".
If you are against these protestors, which I assume you are, are you against people's civil rights? Freedom of expression? I dont think so. So - dont label those opposed to the mosque as bigots. Dont say there against freedom of religion.
You may have no issue with the mosque being built, but some do. Just as Spence says right to lifers may not have a problem with PP protests, but some do. The mosque may not be "out there" but neither you nor I lost any family on 9/11, we werent evacuated from our offices in the midst of chaos and we dont have family overseas being blown up by religious fanatics. But some do, and I value their opinions and understand them.

[buckman]

Not to change the focus here.


Do you think this mosque will get the same attention by Homeland Security then say... St. Mary's here in Mansfield?

Why would it?