Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-19-2019, 10:57 AM   #1
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 34,942
Blog Entries: 1
This explains a lot

https://www.axios.com/happy-presiden...6597bfba8.html

Most citizens cannot pass a basic Citizenship test.

I am mixed in that all citizens have the right to vote, but are they holding up their end of the bargain if they cannot pass a citizenship test?

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 11:08 AM   #2
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
https://www.axios.com/happy-presiden...6597bfba8.html

Most citizens cannot pass a basic Citizenship test.

I am mixed in that all citizens have the right to vote, but are they holding up their end of the bargain if they cannot pass a citizenship test?
It's not an accident that citizenship is not an important subject in our Progressive educational institutions.
detbuch is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 11:30 AM   #3
Pete F.
Canceled
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,067
Interesting how the low scoring states lean politically
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Pete F. is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 11:48 AM   #4
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Interesting how the low scoring states lean politically
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Seems also to be a correlation between low scoring states and which states receive the most government $ back vs what they contribute.
PaulS is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:13 PM   #5
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Interesting how the low scoring states lean politically
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
In the second highest category (topped only by Vermont the only one in first category) the "Conservative" states dominate. Not a really significant political distribution overall between "right" and "left."
detbuch is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:15 PM   #6
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Seems also to be a correlation between low scoring states and which states receive the most government $ back vs what they contribute.
Not significantly true overall, but if it were, then it would seem that government money makes people dumber.
detbuch is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:39 PM   #7
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
Not significantly true overall, but if it were, then it would seem that government money makes people dumber.
Do you have a chart to show that it is not significantly true overall bc every chart I have seen seems to indicate that the historically right leaning states all receive more back then they pay to the govern. There also seems to be a correlation between educational achievement also.

But to the point before you tried to turn this into a political arguement, it is sad people don't know more about our country. Perhaps bc many states down have civics classes anymore.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	states that get more then they give.jpg
Views:	585
Size:	238.9 KB
ID:	65996  
PaulS is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:58 PM   #8
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 34,942
Blog Entries: 1
Many of the states that get low Fed have high state taxes, salaries, and tend to spend more. States that receive higher tend to have larger government installations like gov research or large military bases or (ironically, bases that were thrown out of states)

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 01:14 PM   #9
Pete F.
Canceled
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
In the second highest category (topped only by Vermont the only one in first category) the "Conservative" states dominate. Not a really significant political distribution overall between "right" and "left."
In the lowest two categories, with the exception of New Mexico all voted for Trump 16-1 and in the highest two he only got 6 out of 10.
I suppose the low ones are not really in the conservative club.

You can read data lots of ways to make it say what you want.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
Pete F. is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 01:21 PM   #10
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post

You can read data lots of ways to make it say what you want.
I'll be using that in the next thread you start
scottw is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:12 PM   #11
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Do you have a chart to show that it is not significantly true overall bc every chart I have seen seems to indicate that the historically right leaning states all receive more back then they pay to the govern. There also seems to be a correlation between educational achievement also.

I was referring to the chart that JohnR posted.

As far as the states receiving more back than they pay, I consider that a good thing. If all the states did that, the federal government might be forced to cut back on its spending. And maybe the fed would then not need to tax us as much and more money would stay in the states so they wouldn't have to rely on the federal government dole.


But to the point before you tried to turn this into a political arguement,

This is the political forum. And like so much of what affects our civic life in America now, politics is a, or the, key factor. And the Pete F post to which I responded was specifically political. Your stuff about "right leaning" states getting back more than they pay is political.

it is sad people don't know more about our country. Perhaps bc many states down have civics classes anymore.
As I said in the first response to the thread "It's not an accident that citizenship is not an important subject in our Progressive educational institutions."
detbuch is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:20 PM   #12
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Originally Posted by PaulS

But to the point before you tried to turn this into a political arguement,



Originally Posted by detbuch

This is the political forum


scottw is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:31 PM   #13
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
As I said in the first response to the thread "It's not an accident that citizenship is not an important subject in our Progressive educational institutions."
Most people don't try to turn everything into Progress vs Cons. like you did. I'm guessing Pete's post was in reaction to your post commenting on progressive educational instituitions and pointing out that cons. states seem to score low.

If citizenship wasn't important in the progressive educational institutions what do you attribute to the low scoring conservative states? Just not as smart or is it bc they frequently spend less per student on education?
PaulS is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:35 PM   #14
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post

If citizenship wasn't important in the progressive educational institutions what do you attribute to the low scoring conservative states?
the tests are harder
scottw is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:53 PM   #15
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
the tests are harder
is that why they have lower educational achievement and lower average earnings? Might need to pay their teachers more?????
PaulS is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 03:22 PM   #16
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
is that why they have lower educational achievement and lower average earnings?
I heard they are happier.....
scottw is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 03:54 PM   #17
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,190
Could be. My commute sucks. That is why I work from home a lot.
PaulS is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 04:23 PM   #18
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Most people don't try to turn everything into Progress vs Cons. like you did.

I am not "most people". Being "most people" may be a goal you aspire to. I don't. I would normally apologize if I undeservedly offended you. But if that offends you, or irks you, I won't apologize for who I am.

Progressive vs Conservative is an essential feature of American politics, so would be totally appropriate in a political forum.


I'm guessing Pete's post was in reaction to your post commenting on progressive educational instituitions and pointing out that cons. states seem to score low.

If citizenship wasn't important in the progressive educational institutions what do you attribute to the low scoring conservative states? Just not as smart or is it bc they frequently spend less per student on education?
The public educational institutions in this country have intentionally been made Progressive in their social and political pedagogy. If not all, the vast majority with qualifying teacher certificates are educated in our Progressive colleges and Universities. This applies even in "conservative" states. Our Public schools, in all states, are progressive institutions. It would be interesting to have a chart like the one in this thread that surveyed private schools. I wouldn't be surprised if Christian school students scored higher.

In the survey that John posted all states except Vermont scored below 50%. And Vermont was only at 53%. In the next level below that "Conservative" states had higher scores than "Progressive" ones. As a whole, even including Vermont, that is pitiful. Spending more money on education evidently doesn't affect the students' knowledge of American civics and history. That's not because the students are stupid. It's because they are not being taught what Progressive pedagogues think is either unimportant or they are being taught Progressive versions which are antithetical to the historical principles of this country.

Last edited by detbuch; 02-19-2019 at 04:31 PM..
detbuch is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 07:32 PM   #19
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
is that why they have lower educational achievement and lower average earnings? Might need to pay their teachers more?????
Yes, there's all kinds of evidence to suggest that teacher pay is coordinated with student performance!! That's why private schools, where teachers are paid with dirt, score so poorly.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 08:32 PM   #20
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Yes, there's all kinds of evidence to suggest that teacher pay is coordinated with student performance!! That's why private schools, where teachers are paid with dirt, score so poorly.
So as an actuary you would have no problem comparing public schools which have to take every student regardless of ability to private schools where you have the ability to test and pick and choose which students you want to accept?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
PaulS is offline  
Old 02-19-2019, 09:28 PM   #21
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
So as an actuary you would have no problem comparing public schools which have to take every student regardless of ability to private schools where you have the ability to test and pick and choose which students you want to accept?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
i agree it’s not an apples to apples comparison. but it shows that teacher compensation has
little to do with it.

how about if we spent the money on programs that encourage good parenting, making public schools look more like
private schools?

and if you look at test scores in public schools
by state and overlay that with teacher compensation, you won’t see
much correlation. if there was a correlation, i’d be on board with huge compensation.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Jim in CT is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com