Seal/Fill/Prime/Basecoat/Paint/Scratchcoat/Topcoat Follies - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Eric Roach · 07-01-2011, 06:41 AM

We could probably fill an encyclopedia with mistakes in this process, and here's a new one: Don't spray an enamel undercoat to your yet-uncured epoxy-sealed plug thinking the two will bond better. Neither cured correctly.

Eric Roach · 07-01-2011, 06:56 AM

I ought to balance that with something positive: I make my waking needles out of cherry. After experimenting with many sealing concotions (BLO, Helmsman, tung) I can tell you the only sealer I've had no problems with is epoxy. I pour thinned epoxy back and forth over cherry blanks which have been microwaved for 15 seconds to warm them. After a few minutes of this, I wipe them down and hang them vertical in a heated curing box - they are done within 24 hours at ~85° (above 85° I sometimes get bubbles from the heated gas expanding in the wood).
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blondterror · 07-01-2011, 07:27 AM

I too have switched to sealing hardwoods (maple for darters) with devco 2 ton thinned with a few drops of acetone... cures O/N and sands very nice... I seal the thru wire surface area using a thru wire painted with the epoxy and push it back a forth several times

Eric Roach · 07-01-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blondterror

I too have switched to sealing hardwoods (maple for darters) with devco 2 ton thinned with a few drops of acetone... cures O/N and sands very nice... I seal the thru wire surface area using a thru wire painted with the epoxy and push it back a forth several times

Hi BT,

Do you find that you need to do much filling after sanding your seal-coat, or is the surface pretty smooth?

I know maple turns better than cherry -- I have to do a fair amount of prep work in terms of filling/priming/ to get the cherry's blemishes covered.

numbskull · 07-02-2011, 05:18 AM

What problems did you have with thinned varnish?

blondterror · 07-02-2011, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Roach

Hi BT,

Do you find that you need to do much filling after sanding your seal-coat, or is the surface pretty smooth?

I know maple turns better than cherry -- I have to do a fair amount of prep work in terms of filling/priming/ to get the cherry's blemishes covered.

I sand the devco epoxy seal coat with 220 grit and it comes out very smooth... no filling required...I have not have any problems other than sourcing the larger size of the Devco 2 ton 30 min product. I have been using the small tubes or the small parallel syringe version.. I need a larger 50ml syringe version that I only see available on-line

TheLureWasher · 07-02-2011, 08:34 PM

What is your process for scratch coating?

WoodyCT · 07-03-2011, 08:00 AM

I applaud the effort you guys are putting into making attractive plugs.

But does all the extra expense, time and effort increase their efficacy or durability?

I go cheaper, quicker and easier on plugs that will be fished and not traded or given away.
Sand to 100 grit to give tooth for the sealer and primer; polyurethane sealer followed by light sanding with 150-220 to knock off the bigger tits; BIN primer; Rustoleum or Createx paint; Spyray urethane or Etex top coat.

Not knocking your artistic efforts guys, just offering a different perspective.

Keep up the good work!
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blondterror · 07-03-2011, 10:11 AM

I use the epoxy sealer on hardwoods that get very little penetration of the thinned varnish and on some soft pine to harden up the surface to minimize hook rash

Eric Roach · 07-03-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by numbskull

What problems did you have with thinned varnish?

Swelling and top-coat splitting; this was with a 60% Helmsman / 40% naptha mix. Had that happen twice before switching to epoxy. Might not have soaked it long enough (~4 hours).
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Eric Roach · 07-03-2011, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLureWasher

What is your process for scratch coating?

I'm new to the scratch-coat, but I use Krylon acrylic clear coat over Createx acrylics. I scuff it with 150 grit before the E-Tex. Too early to say if this truly helps with top-coat adhesion.
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pbadad · 07-04-2011, 08:14 AM

On hardwoodsMaple, birch, I soak 60% helmsman/40% (PURE) turpentine 4 hrs. So far so good. Leave a grit(like Woody) 100-120 for adhesion. Prime with "oil" base Zinseer. Sand w/ 180, clean off w/ denatured alcohol. Paint w/Createx, Apple, etc. Heat set w/ heat gun. Dry over night dry. Spray clear "laquer" over painted plug, protects while handling putting on lips, grommets, eyes & wiring if you shall wish. Dry over night and apply epoxy (Flexcoat lure epoxy) or E-tex. No complaints. Some times in this art of plug building it's what one is comfortable using and has success with. This what make this a great hobby. Sometimes ones' method of success is another's achilles heel. Good Luck in whichever works.

Pete F. · 07-04-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

I applaud the effort you guys are putting into making attractive plugs.

But does all the extra expense, time and effort increase their efficacy or durability?

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efficacy
I think this must mean something special in Croation and plug building. The only times I've seen it in print in something I wanted to read were plug related.

My plug sealing and painting are roughly the same as yours, Pretty much basic Earl Schweib

togue · 07-04-2011, 02:36 PM

Eric -

pbadad's system should work just fine, similar to what I have done. Just a few things to watch out for.

Make sure the seal coat is fully dry before priming. How long do you wait pbadad?

Oil based primer works very well, and can be thinned and dip coated just like the seal coat. The Zinnser exterior in the gold can works well. I have had success with the water based, which can more easily be sprayed without solvent hazard issues.

With Createx you really have to heat set it or it never sets up. If you don't believe it, try spraying a plug and set it aside for as long as you want to wait, then wet it. I have some that were done 3-4 years ago and I can still run the Createx paint right off with a wet finger. You may get away with it, but I've seen the Etex come off a soaked plug like a snake shedding its skin if you aren't careful. Kind of a neat trick since it sloughs off with all the paint attached, like an old model airplane decal. Many have experienced this unfortunate uh-oh moment. Lots of guys use the heat gun approach (talk to gonefishing, cause that's what Don does), but I use an oven.

Also, make sure all is fully dry before you put on your clear coat, particularly Etex, since if you don't that can also lead to it all peeling right off.

You can keep using the epoxy approach, it definitely works, but it is expensive and messy. Also, search the net, there is some good info out there including some pretty detailed studies on the effectiveness of different sealing methods with % water penetration measured a a function of time. Do the homework, you might be surprised that what you find out is not what you thought works best.

In the end it is all personal preference anyway.

Can't wait to see you power casting some examples of your plug work, will keep an eye out for you on PI this fall.

pbadad · 07-04-2011, 06:57 PM

I wait 24hrs in a warm area, 60degree or more w/ < 60% humidity. Usually its longer b/4 I get around to sanding the sealer coat 180 grit and priming. I like using oil base primer for 1 reason, oil sealer coat then oil primer. I think the 2 make nice together!! Also I like 2 coats of primer. 24 hrs dry time between primer coats and createx.

Eric Roach · 07-05-2011, 06:38 AM

I do like to tinker, and I enjoy testing new plug designs during the season. Almost all of my plugs made this time of year are barely fish-worthy; most are turned, sealed, painted and tested/fished within one day. Most require rattle cans or black magic marker repairs every-other trip.

The reason for all the questions is because I would like to be able to create an attractive, durable finish for give-aways.

Thank you for the good info here for "properly" finishing a plug. I've learned that I haven't been scuffing between the important layers. I probably haven't been letting hardwoods soak in Helmsman long enough. I'm sure I haven't been allowing enough time to dry between most coats. I haven't been heat-setting the Createx (and I have probably over-thinned the pearls, and with water instead of airbrush medium).

Once I have the finish I'm satisfied with, the easiest way possible, I'll call that "my" system...at least for that wood type.

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Eric Roach · 07-05-2011, 07:01 AM

Quick aside: Seems strange to realize this so late, but the beginning of my problems lies with the turning of the plug. Even with the carbide tip on the Vega, I've been experiencing more tear-out than is needed. The problem seems to be that I've been going too fast and cutting too deep on the parts of the pass in initial contact with the template. Slowing down, cutting shallower and taking a nice, slow "finish pass" at the end is greatly reducing my filling needs, which speeds the whole finishing process up.
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