White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

[Cool Beans]

Wow, this would be good news! Obama giving up?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090816/..._care_overhaul

[Raven]

that's a change

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Raven

that's a change

Rav, i think the old expressions, believe none of what you hear and 1/2
of what you see, and I'll believe it when i see it applies here.

[Raven]

i never expected there to be social security benefits
when i reach the age 65....

there'd be some kind of excuse by then...
trillions of dollars worth of deficit seems appropriate.

i don't trust them to do anything right

[Cool Beans]

Rush mentioned some of this on thursday, how Obama could save his butt and get some of his support back. All he has to do is step back and say, "Ok, the people have spoken and this bill is not what they want, I'm dropping it and we'll go back to the table with the American people in mind and re-work this in a bipartisan way. It may take longer than I wanted, but in the end we can get a bill that helps the American people". Then he can wait a while and slam the same crap back out on a different plate and hope we take a bite. It's all a way to save face and in the end he may still get us to eat this "sh*t sandwich" of a bill.

Basic idea from Rush, except for the last 3 lines, which are my humble opinions.

Any set back in the Obama administration is a small victory for the Conservatives. "I hope he fails".....

I can hear the gerbils in Spence's head (most of them are in his head anyway) start to spin away on that wheel. I can't wait to see what they spit out of his mouth.....

[spence]

We already have a "public option" for million of people, so the notion that this is something new isn't very accurate.

Obama hasn't been able to articulate how the public option won't help costs at the expense of the free market, so to take it off the table isn't a big surprise.

That being said...Right now I'm trying to get Cigna to pay 225 dollars for something they told my wife over the phone was covered, but now say is isn't.

Aside from some meaningless appeals I have little recourse...

All the while the CEO is earning 30 Million+

And people think there's nothing wrong with our system?

-spence

[saltfly]

It's the ALTERNATIVE that's the problem.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by spence

We already have a "public option" for million of people, so the notion that this is something new isn't very accurate.

Obama hasn't been able to articulate how the public option won't help costs at the expense of the free market, so to take it off the table isn't a big surprise.

That being said...Right now I'm trying to get Cigna to pay 225 dollars for something they told my wife over the phone was covered, but now say is isn't.

Aside from some meaningless appeals I have little recourse...

All the while the CEO is earning 30 Million+

And people think there's nothing wrong with our system?

-spence

See Spence, thats the beauty of the free enterprise system we have now,, Cigna screws you over, you can switch to Blue cross or whoever.... with his plan eventually you wouldnt have that option...

Yes there are problems with the way it is now,,, but making it worse will not make it better... making it bigger will not make it cheaper... making it free to everyone that cant afford it,,, cant reduce costs... and penalizing rich will not fund the "change" they will take their $$ elsewhere... If you like socialized medicine, I believe Rush mentioned on his show Friday, he would pay for your flight to Canada if you legally changed your residence to Canada, so you could use their wonderful health care program....

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

See Spence, thats the beauty of the free enterprise system we have now,, Cigna screws you over, you can switch to Blue cross or whoever.... with his plan eventually you wouldnt have that option...

Actually, in this case it was dental insurance and I didn't have a choice as it was the only plan offered by my employer.

If you like socialized medicine, I believe Rush mentioned on his show Friday, he would pay for your flight to Canada if you legally changed your residence to Canada, so you could use their wonderful health care program....

Nobody has proposed socializing the entire system, and as I mentioned before we already have a hybrid social system. Additionally, from what I gather the health care in Canada and the UK aren't that bad. Most people's opinions have been formed by years of misinformation and rhetoric.

-spence

[Karl F]

Originally Posted by spence

Most people's opinions have been formed by years of misinformation and rhetoric.

-spence

Wow, perfect... and also an accurate, one sentence description, of the Political Forum

THAT...should be the disclaimer, upon entrance into this Forum!

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Additionally, from what I gather the health care in Canada and the UK aren't that bad. -spence

Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doctors
By Jennifer Graham (CP) – 1 day ago

SASKATOON — The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says this country's health-care system is sick and doctors need to develop a plan to cure it.

Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made.

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

[spence]

And your point is? People seem to think we have the best system on the planet and it's imploding as well.

-spence

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

Most people's opinions have been formed by years of misinformation and rhetoric. -spence

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...ck-s-operation

Bow to the journalistic integrity of Glen beck!!!
But, Canada sucks..

[Nebe]

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by spence

We already have a "public option" for million of people, so the notion that this is something new isn't very accurate.

Obama hasn't been able to articulate how the public option won't help costs at the expense of the free market, so to take it off the table isn't a big surprise.

That being said...Right now I'm trying to get Cigna to pay 225 dollars for something they told my wife over the phone was covered, but now say is isn't.

Aside from some meaningless appeals I have little recourse...

All the while the CEO is earning 30 Million+

And people think there's nothing wrong with our system?

-spence

I see nothing wrong with our present system. My family medical plan is roughly $12,000.00 per year at the moment. My medication is $100,000 per year at the moment, my co- pay for the meds is 40.00 per month. With out it I would not be able to drive, fish and hunt let alone leave my home.

Under Obama's plan I would probably be visiting his panel of doctors (death panel) and thrown aside.

Yes we have public option, there is also free medical that the hospitals dole out to the less fortunate. They lose millions in providing this service.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

I see nothing wrong with our present system. My family medical plan is roughly $12,000.00 per year at the moment. My medication is $100,000 per year at the moment, my co- pay for the meds is 40.00 per month. With out it I would not be able to drive, fish and hunt let alone leave my home.

For starters you might wonder why that medication costs 100,000 grand a year.

Under Obama's plan I would probably be visiting his panel of doctors (death panel) and thrown aside.

If they don't exist how can they cast you aside?

Yes we have public option, there is also free medical that the hospitals dole out to the less fortunate. They lose millions in providing this service.

Yes, the root of the problem is the Hippocratic oath!

-spence

[Fly Rod]

The cost does not matter.

In a poor country if some one is taking that same med they are more then likely getting it free, if at all.

I will agree with you that some changes can be made in the health system as far as cost but, not through a government plan. Mass Health is a good exsample of government taking control.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Under Obama's plan I would probably be visiting his panel of doctors (death panel) and thrown aside.

Except that's not part of the proposal. You must be listening to Rush with Cool Beans.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Except that's not part of the proposal. You must be listening to Rush with Cool Beans.

It sure as hell was,,, it recently got dropped... I'll try to get the exact page and section of the bill for you...

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

It sure as hell was,,, it recently got dropped... I'll try to get the exact page and section of the bill for you...

Yea, because Rush would never twist the truth to make a point

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

It sure as hell was,,, it recently got dropped... I'll try to get the exact page and section of the bill for you...

Please do. You might have some trouble though... I looked around Rush's website and couldn't find anything.

[scottw]

Euthanasia and “death panels” are not as clear as the fact that taxpayers will fund abortions in the bill – however there are numerous signs that point to rationing in the bill, that could then lead to such things.

The biggest question mark comes from who wrote Section 1233 of the House health care overhaul bill. The original language was written by assisted suicide supporter Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) alongside a group that once was called the Hemlock Society – the nation’s biggest advocates of euthanasia and assisted suicide. The Hemlock Society helped draft Oregon’s assisted suicide law – legislation that has led some afflicted people in Oregon getting letters “consulting” them that, while the state run plan would not pay for their cancer treatments, the state would be happy to pay for assisted suicide if they choose that "cheaper" option.

Additionally, Section 1401 establishes the Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research. A similar center was established in the economic stimulus bill passed in February. The report issued by the House Appropriations Committee at that time explained what they hoped to accomplish with this “research.”:

“By knowing what works best and (government)presenting this information more broadly to patients and healthcare professionals, those items, procedures and "interventions" that are most effective to prevent, control and treat health conditions will be utilized¸ while those that are found to be less effective and in some cases, more expensive, will no longer be prescribed. ”

Five times in various committees there were attempts to ensure that “comparative effectiveness research” is not used for rationing purposes. Each time the Democrats on the committees voted the amendments down.

Additionally, the Obama plan relies heavily on cuts to Medicare to pay for the new benefits. Despite these cuts he fails to address the solvency issue of Medicare, inevitably leading to reduction of benefits to participants.

Couple these with public comments of supporters of the leading bills in Congress, like President Obama and Senator Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), that the federal government would be making decisions that usually are left up to patients and doctors the onus should be on supporters of the bill to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their legislation would not lead to rationing of care.

Again, ultimately, this is about creating a single payer government run and rationed system in which you and your children will be subject to the whims of government for your healthcare services with no "OPTIONS"....Obama and his friends, despite claiming to desire to create competition in the system have made it perfectly clear that their true intention is to drive the private sector out of the market over time...they have not given up, they are simply repackaging their lies for another round...

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea, because Rush would never twist the truth to make a point

not nearly as frequently as you Spence...

[Fly Rod]

I just like to mention the (death panel) just to get spence's attention.

It is just a panel of highly educated people mentality of a democrat (Nazi) they would discuss that you are costing the system to much money for your terminal condition and they would discuss the brown bottle that they would offer you that you would put on your coffee table and when you felt the time was right you take a gulp of the brown bottle and you just fall asleep.

[fishbones]

For anyone who really thinks there is a "death panel" provision in the bill, please copy and paste it here. I read the entire section that supposedly included the death panel verbage. While it could certainly be interpreted as doctors having the power to decide who is a good candidate to kill off because they are old and frail, you'd really need to be on the fringe to believe it.

I'm as opposed to the government taking over health care as anyone, but I'm not going to fabricate statements to make the bill look worse than it already is. The section that's being misinterpreted by the Rush's of the world actually talks about end of life counseling and options for people who have terminal illnesses and their families. It's there to help people deal with a very difficult time, not to kill off old, sick people. Even the government wouldn't try to sneak a passage into the proposal that would allow them to murder people. Keep in mind that even terminally ill people may be able to vote.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

For anyone who really thinks there is a "death panel" provision in the bill, please copy and paste it here.

Not one of them will be able to because they're just going by what Rush, Palin and Conservative radio have told them.

Or as Cool Beans stated, Rush says that conveniently, the death panel portion was very recently taken out.

Fortunately, I have a copy of the pre-congressional recess proposal that has these supposed death panel clauses in them. If anyone can't find the section in the "newly revised to cover up the death panels" version, I can send them the copy I have.

[Bocephus]

You dont need to mention death panels to scare people. They just need to hear govt involvement and they know that whatever it is, the govt will not manage it correctly and massive waste will follow. Its happening in insurance now, but if govt wanted to fix it instead of owning it, people might be receptive to it. It would be great if there were laws passed to curb malpractice lawsuits, but the lawyers are in the white house.

[spence]

Did anyone else see the story on how IBD (Investors Business Daily) reported that had Steven Hawking lived in the UK, his severe multiple sclerosis would have caused the state to deny benefits because of his diminished value to society...and we would have lost a brilliant mind.

Except they forgot to read up that Hawking was born and has always lived in the UK, and praises the quality of care the socialistic system has provided

-spence

[Joe]

The death panel interpretation is straight out of Mein Kampf - a classic "Big Lie." A lie so colossal that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".
They've done a great job of redefining the issue. Now it's not about healthcare, it's about being opposed to death panels. I think we can all agree, death panels would be bad.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Joe

The death panel interpretation is straight out of Mein Kampf - a classic "Big Lie." A lie so colossal that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".
They've done a great job of redefining the issue. Now it's not about healthcare, it's about being opposed to death panels. I think we can all agree, death panels would be bad.

which lie are you referring to? Is that the one where the Nazis looked at the Jews and said "death camps"? "Why, you'd have to be crazy and on the fringe to believe something like that....there are no ovens and anyone that tells you that is part of a conspiracy"..."now step over here and keep quiet"...


I think if you scored it by democrat/chicago standards(the death panel lable)...it was a huge success...