Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Today's Posts Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-20-2016, 03:46 PM   #1
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,105
Trump is assembling the richest administration

Many of the Trump appointees were born wealthy, attended elite schools and went on to amass even larger fortunes as adults. As a group, they have much more experience funding political candidates than they do running government agencies.

is this letting the foxes run the Hen House ??

Business and Government are not even remotely the same

https://hbr.org/1996/01/a-country-is...0Recirculation

written in 1996


economics and business are not the same subject, and mastery of one does not ensure comprehension, let alone mastery, of the other. A successful business leader is no more likely to be an expert on economics than on military strategy.


The next time you hear business-people propounding their views about the economy, ask yourself, Have they taken the time to study this subject? Have they read what the experts write? If not, never mind how successful they have been in business. Ignore them, because they probably have no idea what they are talking about.

not thinking theses guys are it it for the Blue collar worker .. we'll see
wdmso is offline  
Old 12-20-2016, 03:53 PM   #2
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 34,961
Blog Entries: 1
You may be on to something - look at the Kennedys.

To me, former Military of proper Foreign Service Officers are the better tiers.

Followed by:

Business people

White Collar

Blue Collar

Scientists

Lawyers

Academics.

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline  
Old 12-20-2016, 04:09 PM   #3
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
You may be on to something - look at the Kennedys.

To me, former Military of proper Foreign Service Officers are the better tiers.

Followed by:

Business people

White Collar

Blue Collar

Scientists

Lawyers

Academics.
John, if you put "golden retrievers" ahead of academics, your list would match my list.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 12-20-2016, 04:08 PM   #4
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
Many of the Trump appointees were born wealthy, attended elite schools and went on to amass even larger fortunes as adults. As a group, they have much more experience funding political candidates than they do running government agencies.

is this letting the foxes run the Hen House ??

Business and Government are not even remotely the same

https://hbr.org/1996/01/a-country-is...0Recirculation

written in 1996


economics and business are not the same subject, and mastery of one does not ensure comprehension, let alone mastery, of the other. A successful business leader is no more likely to be an expert on economics than on military strategy.


The next time you hear business-people propounding their views about the economy, ask yourself, Have they taken the time to study this subject? Have they read what the experts write? If not, never mind how successful they have been in business. Ignore them, because they probably have no idea what they are talking about.

not thinking theses guys are it it for the Blue collar worker .. we'll see
I don't want people who are career government employees. I'd rather have a Secretary of the Treasury that has worked successfully on Wall Street, than someone who spent his whole career in the government or in a faculty room teaching economics. You seem to be suggesting that government experience is more important than real-world experience. I could not disagree more strongly. Did Eisenhower ever run for political office before he was POTUS?

You need people who understand government, no doubt. They don't need to be in the Cabinet necessarily.

"is this letting the foxes run the Hen House "

You really believe that wealthy people have necessarily preyed upon everyone else, don't you? How many poor people are in Obama's cabinet? And what's the magical net worth number, above which you are (according to liberals) necessarily a bad person?

"Business and Government are not even remotely the same "

I agree with that statement, but not in the same spirit in which you agree with it! Career politicians are almost useless in my opinion. I'll take somebody who knows how to get things done, any day.

In business, you have to produce, and you have to do it efficiently. That's infinitely harder than government, where you can usually take as long as you want, and don't usually give a rat's azz about cost.

"A successful business leader is no more likely to be an expert on economics than on military strategy."

I could not disagree more. Business and economics are very closely related. Go tell Warren Buffet that he knows no more about macroeconomics, than he knows about infantry tactics.

Business and economics are not identical. They are very closely related. The CEO of a large company, absolutely needs to understand economics. The owner of a mom and pop pizza shop doesn't, but the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, absolutely does.

The Treasury Secretary has many assistants. He can pick one who has a PhD in economics if he wants.

Some people have a proven ability to learn what they need to know. If someone knows how to think logically, and to solve problems, that skill can translate to many different fields.

Last edited by Jim in CT; 12-20-2016 at 04:36 PM..
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 12-20-2016, 06:32 PM   #5
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 10,349
I would like scientists in charge of science based agencies, and maybe not a former governor with no nuclear experience in charge of DOE....

The wealth doesn't bother me.
It is concerning to me how many people dislike or actively wanted to remove the agencies they are now heading. I was prepared to give him a pass and wait and see, and posted something similar to Facebook a few days after the election. His picks for EPA and DOE concern me though. Tillerson, we'll see. Education is an odd choice, but I am glad DOI is NOT being led by Gov. Palin!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
RIROCKHOUND is offline  
Old 12-20-2016, 07:27 PM   #6
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
I like the education pick. Throw common core in the garbage, and give more poor kids a shot by giving them more choices. What in gods name is the argument against letting poor kids opt out of failing schools, and letting them choose to go to schools that work. I thought liberals were in favor of choice, pretty sure I read that somewhere. But they can't go against the teachers unions
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 12-20-2016, 07:44 PM   #7
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 10,349
I don't have a problem with common core going away. There is a difference between an outsider and inexperience. I would have loved the women from DC he interviewed over a rich donor.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
RIROCKHOUND is offline  
Old 12-20-2016, 09:07 PM   #8
Nebe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Nebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,555
Hound. America is going to be great again. Just sit back and relax.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Nebe is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 05:27 AM   #9
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,105
I see each pick as a systematic approach to dismantle each agency one by one . There is no intent to have them be more efficient . but only to allow easier money flow to the top.. a Businesses approach

Its Like taking the teeth from a Dog then tell the public its still a good watch dog because it can still bark...

(but the thieves know the dog has no teeth)


Schools dont fail parents Fail their kids its not day care
wdmso is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 05:52 AM   #10
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,105
Let talk about Trump's pick for secretary of education, Betsy DeVos
see wants to privatize education ( her children never set foot in a public school)

2010, they even opened up their own charter school

She looking at profit hidden in choice But choice does not guarantee access

She feel competition is the answer for better schools

She feels she is owed

The DeVos family is a major funder of the Republican party. In a 1997 op-ed that DeVos wrote for the Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call, she pointedly admitted, "my family is the largest single contributor of soft money to the national Republican party." She also said that she decided to stop taking offense at the suggestion that they were buying influence and simply concede the point, admitting "we expect a return on our investment," to make America reflect their vision for it.

Pay to play written all over this one
wdmso is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 07:05 AM   #11
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
Let talk about Trump's pick for secretary of education, Betsy DeVos
see wants to privatize education ( her children never set foot in a public school)

2010, they even opened up their own charter school

She looking at profit hidden in choice But choice does not guarantee access

She feel competition is the answer for better schools

She feels she is owed

The DeVos family is a major funder of the Republican party. In a 1997 op-ed that DeVos wrote for the Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call, she pointedly admitted, "my family is the largest single contributor of soft money to the national Republican party." She also said that she decided to stop taking offense at the suggestion that they were buying influence and simply concede the point, admitting "we expect a return on our investment," to make America reflect their vision for it.

Pay to play written all over this one
"he feel competition is the answer for better schools'

Most people feel that way. WDMSO, please tell me why you are opposed to letting poor families choose to opt out of failing schools, and instead send their kids to schools that work? On what basis, exactly, are you opposed to that?

Giving those parents more choice, is giving them more freedom, it's giving their kids a better shot at realizing their dreams.

Only union fanatics, who care nothing bout anyone but themselves, , could possibly oppose school choice. Poor people in cities, LOVE school choice. They love it.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 08:13 AM   #12
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 34,961
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
I see each pick as a systematic approach to dismantle each agency one by one . There is no intent to have them be more efficient . but only to allow easier money flow to the top.. a Businesses approach

Its Like taking the teeth from a Dog then tell the public its still a good watch dog because it can still bark...

(but the thieves know the dog has no teeth)

I see a couple possibilities here. I see picks that are unconventional selections for particular positions may be able to more easily get to the root of a department doing well or not doing well because the head does not drink the Koolaid. He said he was going to bring in "winners" to do certain things - maybe this is an example. Maybe the EPA needs more Egon Spengler and less Walter Peck



Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
Schools dont fail parents Fail their kids its not day care
Agreed. These kids already have 2 strikes against them with often bad parents. Totally unfair. I used to disagree with some the over application of different subsidies being given to the kids but now I am not so sure. Though I do think the parents should need to do more in conjunction with these. Kids having kids.

But schools are failing kids as are the parents - something has to give in order for these kids to have an opportunity to excel.

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 04:07 PM   #13
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
"he feel competition is the answer for better schools'

Most people feel that way. WDMSO, please tell me why you are opposed to letting poor families choose to opt out of failing schools, and instead send their kids to schools that work? On what basis, exactly, are you opposed to that?

Giving those parents more choice, is giving them more freedom, it's giving their kids a better shot at realizing their dreams.

Only union fanatics, who care nothing bout anyone but themselves, , could possibly oppose school choice. Poor people in cities, LOVE school choice. They love it.

Who are the most which you speak ? charter schools are nothing but cash cows for investor's to milk all ready limited funds from school districts (look who funded the ballot question in MA for charter schools some NY hedge fund) they are not the magic bullet they are billed to be ... Funny people complain about people being on welfare but then champion choice for poor families for charter schools .. but in the next breath want lower taxes ... all citizens should have the right to an good education but a free market based system is crazy and will start a new class system your bank account will select your education quality is that what we want ?

Guess who can start a charter school....Parents that are dissatisfied with their kids’ public education options but can’t afford the tuition of a private school can take matters into their own hands and start a charter school. or anyone !!! How is that a good Idea? how about we run the same model for police depts

Why hedge funds love charter schools
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.fa65a4ddaa84

Last edited by wdmso; 12-21-2016 at 04:42 PM..
wdmso is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 07:57 AM   #14
The Dad Fisherman
Super Moderator
iTrader: (0)
 
The Dad Fisherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
Schools dont fail parents Fail their kids its not day care
it's really both...

Parents fail their kids by not holding them accountable for their performance at school, not getting involved in or even caring about what's going on in school, and not setting boundaries on school nights and school work.

But parents aren't to blame for 30 year old text books, crumbling buildings and infrastructure, teaching to a test, and 40 kids to a class. Those kinds of problems fall on the School district and the communities that support them.

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
The Dad Fisherman is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 09:17 AM   #15
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman View Post
it's really both...

Parents fail their kids by not holding them accountable for their performance at school, not getting involved in or even caring about what's going on in school, and not setting boundaries on school nights and school work.

But parents aren't to blame for 30 year old text books, crumbling buildings and infrastructure, teaching to a test, and 40 kids to a class. Those kinds of problems fall on the School district and the communities that support them.
Good post.

Nor are responsible parents at fault if the teachers are forced to spend 99% of their time disciplining the wild kids, leaving no time to teach the small number of kids who are actually there to learn.

This is low hanging fruit, a problem with a laughably simple solution. This isn't splitting the atom.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 04:14 PM   #16
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman View Post
it's really both...

Parents fail their kids by not holding them accountable for their performance at school, not getting involved in or even caring about what's going on in school, and not setting boundaries on school nights and school work.

But parents aren't to blame for 30 year old text books, crumbling buildings and infrastructure, teaching to a test, and 40 kids to a class. Those kinds of problems fall on the School district and the communities that support them.

No ..but Political parties who would rather spend billions on wars and military spending Are to blame .. they turn a blind eye towards infrastucture all over the country leaving it to the states and cities and towns to struggle with increase costs lower tax base .... because the see that spending as a form of Socialism rather than securing americas future ..

Last edited by wdmso; 12-21-2016 at 04:29 PM..
wdmso is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 04:38 PM   #17
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
No ..but Political parties who would rather spend billions on wars and military spending Are to blame .. they turn a blind eye towards infrastucture all over the country leaving it to the states and cities and towns to struggle with increase costs lower tax base .... because the see that spending as a form of Socialism rather than securing americas future ..
hh..so the party that wants to let families choose which school is best for them, is to blame.

First you said bad parents are to blame, now you are saying Republicans are to blame.

"they turn a blind eye towards infrastucture all over the country "

For Obama's first 2 years as POTUS, his party controlled the legislature. I guess he turned a blind eye too.

Trump is proposing to spend a trillion dollars on badly needed infrastructure improvements. Where do you get your information from?

"the see that spending as a form of Socialism rather than securing americas future "

Please support your claim that conservatives are opposed to spending on infrastructure?

One false stereotype after.

Do yourself a favor...instead of listening to Rachael Maddow tell you what conservatives believe, you might try listening to a rational, intelligent, influential conservative. Listen to what he says, not to what MSNBC claims he says. Try Charles Krauthammer, a thoughtful, articulate conservative. Read his columns, you will see how badly you are being misinformed, by whoever you get your information from.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 09:01 AM   #18
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
The quality of the parenting is more important than the quality of the school. No question.

But all other things being equal, a good school beats a crappy school. That's why in our cities, parents that are trying to do the right thing, are almost unanimously in favor of school choice.

Still haven't heard an argument against it.

In Hartford CT, the town spends almost 20k on educating each kid. And the schools are colossal failures.

In West Hartford, there is a fantastic private school that charges $12k per kid.

So...instead of spending 20k to send a kid to a failing sh*thole of a school, the city of Hartford can send a few promising students to the private school. The town saves a ton of money, the kids gets a much better education.

In the real world, this solution would be called a "no-brainer". But not with politicians! Public teachers unions don't like school choice, because public employees like having a total monopoly, they don't like letting their customers have a "choice". So teachers unions are opposed to school choice. And teachers unions give a whole lot of money to Democrats. So democrats vote against school choice, thus continuing to waste huge amounts of money, and worse, limiting the opportunities of their poorest constituents who are trying to do the right thing.

There is no sane argument against school choice, none. I could almost lose an argument about why I oppose slavery, before I could lose an argument about why I support school choice.

And I am fairly certain I heard somewhere that liberals identify themselves as "pro choice", so I am a bit confused about their position here...
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 09:52 AM   #19
Nebe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Nebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,555
I agree. Parents have forgotten how to parent
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Nebe is offline  
Old 12-21-2016, 07:21 PM   #20
Sea Dangles
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Sea Dangles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
My niece and nephew live in a town that is backward at best. They each were accepted at a charter school which also happens to have an excellent special education program. Win for them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Sea Dangles is offline  
Old 12-22-2016, 08:46 AM   #21
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,194
Trump said he no longer wants to drain the swamp. I think that was right after his 2 kids where caught trying to sell access to him for up to $1,000,000.

Edit - I should make it clear the $ was for a charity.

Last edited by PaulS; 12-22-2016 at 09:16 AM..
PaulS is offline  
Old 12-22-2016, 08:51 AM   #22
Nebe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Nebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Trump said he no longer wants to drain the swamp. I think that was right after his 2 kids where caught trying to sell access to him for up to $1,000,000.
In my eyes, I am witnessing the biggest con job in the history of us polotics. The war in Iraq was a serious con job but what's unfolding now is just so blatent. I just wonder how long it's going to take for the average dipchit to realize all those campaign promises were meaningless.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Nebe is offline  
Old 12-22-2016, 09:40 AM   #23
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe View Post
In my eyes, I am witnessing the biggest con job in the history of us polotics. The war in Iraq was a serious con job but what's unfolding now is just so blatent. I just wonder how long it's going to take for the average dipchit to realize all those campaign promises were meaningless.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I cannot believe that Trump doesn't feel compelled to sell 100% of his business interests, as well as that of his kids. The optics are really, really bad.

"all those campaign promises were meaningless."

Tell that to the few hundred families in Indiana who can sleep at night because they have jobs that he helped secure.

The guy is 3 weeks away from inauguration, and people are commenting on his job performance.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 12-22-2016, 09:56 AM   #24
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post

I think that was right after his 2 kids where caught trying to sell access to him for up to $1,000,000.

Edit - I should make it clear the $ was for a charity.
pretty sure none of the Lincoln Bedroom money went to charity
scottw is offline  
Old 12-22-2016, 10:40 AM   #25
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
pretty sure none of the Lincoln Bedroom money went to charity
Well who got it?

The Clinton's didn't keep it.
PaulS is offline  
Old 12-22-2016, 09:52 AM   #26
Nebe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Nebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,555
Jim. Let's see how it's going in 2 years. So far though... may promises have been broken
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Nebe is offline  
Old 12-22-2016, 11:08 AM   #27
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,194
I wonder if everyone knows there is a difference bt a charter school and the voucher program Choo is in favor of.
PaulS is offline  
Old 12-22-2016, 11:24 AM   #28
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
I wonder if everyone knows there is a difference bt a charter school and the voucher program Choo is in favor of.
That's a great point.

I still don't see why (unless you are a public schoolteacher, and also very self-centered and very greedy), why you'd oppose school choice in any form - charter schools, vouchers for private schools, whatever...almost anything, is necessarily better than sending a well-meaning kid, to a failing urban school.

I grew up in a crappy city that had a very, very rough public high school. My parents broke their backs to send me and my 4 brothers, to a Catholic high school. It was an awesome school. I cannot imagine how much easier life would have been for us, if we were allowed to use vouchers to offset some of the cost. Today, there are a lot of families out there like we were.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 12-22-2016, 11:31 AM   #29
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,194
I don't mind the public charter schools but disagree with vouchers. I think some of the success w/charter schools (and I have read articles saying they have success and some saying they don't) is they can accept the people who are more involved w/their children's education. As everyone prob. agrees, the more involved the parent is, the more likely the child will be successful. Some parents either don't care or don't have the where with all to raise their kids where they can succeed.
PaulS is offline  
Old 12-22-2016, 12:46 PM   #30
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
I don't mind the public charter schools but disagree with vouchers. I think some of the success w/charter schools (and I have read articles saying they have success and some saying they don't) is they can accept the people who are more involved w/their children's education. As everyone prob. agrees, the more involved the parent is, the more likely the child will be successful. Some parents either don't care or don't have the where with all to raise their kids where they can succeed.
"the more involved the parent is, the more likely the child will be successful"

Exactly correct. Well said.

"disagree with vouchers"

How come?

In the city of Hartford, they spend almost 20k per year, per pupil, and the schools are war zones. If instead, the town pays 12k to send a few promising students to a quality private school, that means the town saves money, and the kid gets a much better education.

You have me curious as to your opposition.
Jim in CT is offline  
 

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com