Good God do I hate Elizabeth Warren

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Right, because Trump is in office the natural next step is that we are going to follow in the footsteps of Nazi Germany...If that is what you got out my using Hitler and an example I think you misunderstood.

Only thing that might get in the way of that is the Constitution, The 3 branches of Government, 50 separate state governments, and 99% of the 320,000,000 people that aren't stupid enough to let that happen.

How about instead of shouting him down and getting his appearance canceled, they show up to it, engage him in constructive debate, and show everybody, civilly, that is ideas are incorrect.

BC according to the students the last time Murray spoke on campus there was an increase of hate crimes including the writing of the N word on Black's dorm room doors. It would be nice if people could engage civilly with someone who for many years has had the view that blacks are genetically inferior and cannot compete with white men, who are intellectually, psychologically and morally superior but I think that is a pretty high bar. If you know he is going to piss off some many people why invite him to speak unless you believe those discredited views. Invite someone whose views are based in fact.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

If you know he is going to piss off some many people why invite him to speak unless you believe those discredited views.

Because you can, period. There is nothing illegal about it. It is that whole "Freedom of Speech" argument that they keep using to defend their actions when they shout down people.

Originally Posted by PaulS

Invite someone whose views are based in fact.

You mean someone whose views align with their own.

They invite Comedians to speak on campuses all the time. Is everything they say based on fact? Is everything that comes out of their mouth considered not offensive to anyone?

again, if you don't like him, don't come....or show up and try to engage in a civil discourse with him.

but instead we get this....real grown up of them

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...bhJ/story.html

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You mean someone whose views align with your own.

THERE YOU HAVE IT.

I don't think that's what Paul means (he's more fair than that), but sure as hell it's what many liberals mean.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

THERE YOU HAVE IT.

I don't think that's what Paul means (he's more fair than that), but sure as hell it's what many liberals mean.

Yeah, I know....

I mean it more like the views of the protesters...I fixed it

[FishermanTim]

Funny that whenever there is ANY socially-charged event, one that get hyped up by the media, that there are SO MANY student protestors that feel the need to voice their opinion?
Of course you have to add the fact that some schools had "rearranged" their classes so that they could be able to protest without missing any of their "educational discussions" (aka further indoctrinations).

Looking at the generations of "mental giants" some of our schools are turning out, like a conveyor belt with no quality control, it's no wonder they follow like lemmings to the sea!

[nightfighter]

An excellent quote from the Sowell article in the OC Register;

"Academia, however, is ground zero in the war against people whose ideas go against the current political correctness. The virtual monopoly of the political left, on campuses across the country, allows all sorts of things to be attributed to people the left disagrees with, irrespective of whether those people have ever said anything resembling what they are alleged to have said."


Warren is the epitome of this school of thought where the masses are churned into an unaccepting frenzy by a fish wife.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Because you can, period. There is nothing illegal about it. It is that whole "Freedom of Speech" argument that they keep using to defend their actions when they shout down people.Well, I guess then being shouted down is going to be the expected outcome.



You mean someone whose views align with their own. Not at all. Murray's theories have been widely debunked. Invite some of the conservative economists. So do you think the people invited him agreed w/his view?

They invite Comedians to speak on campuses all the time. Is everything they say based on fact? Is everything that comes out of their mouth considered not offensive to anyone?

again, if you don't like him, don't come....or show up and try to engage in a civil discourse with him.

but instead we get this....real grown up of themI agree it is crazy. (didn't look at the link) Entitled kids. It is a shame they are coddled all their lives, being always told "good job", getting their way, getting trophys for participating. They where entitled bf they got to school.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...bhJ/story.html

nm

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Well, I guess then being shouted down is going to be the expected outcome.

That may be the expected, but the desired should be that they are escorted out of the event by security.

people paid to hear him speak, they don't get to decide whether you should be allowed to listen.

Saying that its OK to act like that is akin to giving a 2 year old that cookie to stop his temper tantrum...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

That may be the expected, but the desired should be that they are escorted out of the event by security. I have never said there shouldn't be ramifications for someone's actions.

people paid to hear him speak, they don't get to decide whether you should be allowed to listen.

Saying that its OK to act like that is akin to giving a 2 year old that cookie to stop his temper tantrum...

I haven't once said it is ok - just that some reactions are going to be expected based on the actions.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I haven't once said it is ok - just that some reactions are going to be expected based on the actions.

And, after actions against free speech, happen over and over and are not stopped by those who should stop the suppression of speech, then eventually, reactions to the shutting down of free speech "are [as you say] going to be expected,". It's going to get crazy if the thugs who are stopping people from speaking are not stopped:

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So do you think the people invited him agreed w/his view?

It doesn't matter....moot point

Some may, some may have actually welcomed the chance to listen and form their own opinion of what he is saying. some may have come to behave like adults and debate his concepts.

Again, nobody has the right to deny you the right to listen to somebody speak, or to deny somebody the right to speak.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

nm

"I guess then being shouted down is going to be the expected outcome"

From liberals, yes. From conservatives, no. I would like to know why that is.

Why can conservatives tolerate that which offends them, but not liberals?

Paul, not speaking in absolutes by any means, just generalizations, OK?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"I guess then being shouted down is going to be the expected outcome"

From liberals, yes. From conservatives, no. I would like to know why that is.

Why can conservatives tolerate that which offends them, but not liberals?

Paul, not speaking in absolutes by any means, just generalizations, OK?

Your ignoring the fact that most people in college (according to Buckman) are libs. bc the farmers, factory workers and tradesman, etc. are all cons. So you have a much higher % of people in college who are lib vs cons. Adding in the fact that everyone has ignored the age of the people in college where that age pop. does stupid stuff. So applying that sample to the whole pop. is going to get you the wrong answer when you make a generalization.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Your ignoring the fact that most people in college (according to Buckman) are libs. bc the farmers, factory workers and tradesman, etc. are all cons. So you have a much higher % of people in college who are lib vs cons. Adding in the fact that everyone has ignored the age of the people in college where that age pop. does stupid stuff. So applying that sample to the whole pop. is going to get you the wrong answer when you make a generalization.

OK. Let's make this really simple, because you are going to bend over backwards to avoid admitting I am right...

If you look at all politically-motivated riots over the last 10 years (not just on college campuses), what % do you think were started by conservatives, and what % do you think were stared by liberals?

Gets tiresome, Paul. A little intellectual honesty would be appreciated. If you really think that liberals don't engage in riots at a rate that is disproportionate to their portion of the population, then we should stop responding to each other altogether.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

OK. Let's make this really simple, because you are going to bend over backwards to avoid admitting I am right...

If you look at all politically-motivated riots over the last 10 years (not just on college campuses), what % do you think were started by conservatives, and what % do you think were stared by liberals?

Gets tiresome, Paul. A little intellectual honesty would be appreciated. If you really think that liberals don't engage in riots at a rate that is disproportionate to their portion of the population, then we should stop responding to each other altogether.

As I said before you are assuming what a small % of the population does represents the whole population and assigning that thing to the full population - even though the demographics of the sample are totally different than the whole population. That is not intellectually honest.

That is like my saying the we know the kkk is racist and supports rep. therefore all reps. are racist. If you really think that cons. don't engage in racism at a rate that is disproportionate to their portion of the population, then we should stop responding to each other altogether.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Adding in the fact that everyone has ignored the age of the people in college where that age pop. does stupid stuff. .

Your "answer" doesn't begin to explain why conservative college students (they do exist) don't riot when politics doesn't go the way they want. It doesn't happen. Abu Mumia Jamal gets to speak. Al Sharpton gets to speak., Bill Ayers gets to speak. Black Lives Matter gets to speak. Spike Lee gets to speak. Zero riots. Zip. Just peaceful protests.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

BC according to the students the last time Murray spoke on campus there was an increase of hate crimes including the writing of the N word on Black's dorm room doors.

Your demonstrating that an effective way to bar someone from speaking on campus is to create civil disorder if they do. An increase of crimes is the fault of the criminals, not by someone who is not advocating the increase in crimes. If we must be afraid to speak because some criminals will use the speech to commit crimes, freedom of speech is effectively shut down, eliminated.


It would be nice if people could engage civilly with someone who for many years has had the view that blacks are genetically inferior and cannot compete with white men, who are intellectually, psychologically and morally superior but I think that is a pretty high bar.

Perhaps, your false understanding of Murray is due to not getting a chance to know fully what Murray thinks and says. Shutting his speech down is one way of depriving you of the truth.

Murray does not say that blacks are genetically inferior to whites in the way you describe. Nor that all blacks are genetically inferior to all whites even in the way he is discussing. He is speaking solely on the intelligence level measured by IQ. And, he says, even within that parameter, MANY blacks are superior to MANY whites. His use of IQ in this case is measuring basic groups, races and ethnicities. OVERALL, blacks and Latinos score lower than whites, but, OVERALL, East Asians and Jews score higher than whites. So there is no "white racist" motivation for what he is saying.

And he is certainly not saying that whites are "psychologically and morally superior" to blacks. Nor is he saying that blacks cannot compete with white men. Not only can the many black men who score higher IQ compete intellectually with the many white men who score lower, the majority of black men can outperform the majority of white men in areas which blacks are genetically "superior."

If you know he is going to piss off some many people why invite him to speak unless you believe those discredited views. Invite someone whose views are based in fact.

Whether you invite someone to speak who's views are supposedly discredited or not, you are obligated to let him speak if he accepts your invitation.

Murray's views have been "discredited" (falsely in my opinion) by some, but supported by others (see the link I posted above as an "expert" example). The purpose of having him speak is to put his views on display so that the audience has some direct evidence, from his mouth to their ears, on which to help make a judgement. And, usually, if the discourse is civil and not threatened with disruptive noise or violence, there are Q & A sessions after the speech in which points and counterpoints can be clarified and discussed--civilly--if civility is allowed.

Not inviting someone to speak, especially if he is "controversial," because there will be those who are "pissed #^&#^&#^&#^& is being a partner to the elimination of free speech, to the promotion of only allowing certain speech, to allowing mobs and criminals to dictate what is allowed, and to promoting ignorance and to the capture of social norms and behaviors by radical authoritarians.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

If you know he is going to piss off some many people why invite him to speak unless you believe those discredited views. Invite someone whose views are based in fact.

Funny that many of the same liberals who ask that question regarding King, have no quarrel with inviting Bill Ayers or Abu Mumia Jamal to speak.

It's OK for people to throw offensive bombs, as long as those bombs are aimed at conservatives.

Paul, Ben Shapiro is another hated conservative whose appearance on campus often triggers riots. He's a staunch conservative, but he' snot a racist or a hatemonger., He's a slightly watered down version of Ann Coulter. But he's smart, and he's conservative, therefore he must be silenced.

You make it sound like the only conservatives who trigger riots are Klansmen. Not so.