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Grumpy Old Pharts Board Gerritol, Ex-Lax, Immodium, Bad Breath - all requirements for the Grumpy Board

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Old 07-27-2021, 06:18 AM   #1
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WTF

Is wrong with people resisting getting vaccinated, this group of nitwits is going to take us backwards. Sadly I include my older sister, who is a confirmed anti vaccine nitwit and ironically she is constantly sick, recovered from covid and now suffering with another local Arizona lung issue Valley Fever.
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Old 07-27-2021, 06:29 AM   #2
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i work with a couple of guys who are not and will not get vacc.

No boat, back in the suds.
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Old 07-27-2021, 06:36 AM   #3
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It’s directly related to I.Q.

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Old 07-27-2021, 09:10 AM   #4
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There is nothing "wrong" with them, and they are not nitwits. They are not causing anything to go backwards. Before you judge me as being some kind of anti vacc whacko low IQ nitwit, I am not anti vacc. What I am for is the right to question things especially something that may be forced on you. I also don't have a problem with some choosing not to get the shot that is supposed to protect us from the weaponized virus China unleashed on the world. That is not a conspiracy but you keep on believing NPR and any other media pushing this. It still is not FDA approved, I wonder why that is. The shot does not make all of us safe, and giving up liberty is not the right thing to do.
Your sister not getting it will not risk anything to you or anyone else, it's her choice and you should respect that but complaining here or on FB makes you feel better about spreading the message maybe? She may get sick often and have a slower or weaker immune system then you but it is her choice Bob. I have had Valley fever before, it is not good and having asthma I am glad it was when I was young.
Go ahead and pontificate all you want, most of those people are making their own decisions based on actual facts not spoon fed propaganda.

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!

It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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Old 07-27-2021, 09:59 AM   #5
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Spoon fed propaganda really Bruce, so the thousands of medical experts are all wrong about the efficacy, it’s safety and severe concerns we may face due to variants are all wrong. While the jury is still out on the actual source, it matters little where it came from as the death toll climbs and the affects to our economy worsens. I trust the science and the medical experts, taking anything media or politicians have to say with a grain of salt. Your kids ALL required vaccines to attend any public school, it’s how so many illnesses have been eliminated, the fact this vaccine hasn’t received official FDA approval has more to do with the process, not it’s efficacy.

So Bruce do you believe the reporting from hospitals that the majority of cases are now due to the unvaccinated is propaganda and what a political ploy to get a chip injected in your arm? Seat belts became law, that must have been hard for those thinking that’s my right to chose.

You don’t know sh*t about my crazy sister, never gets a flu vaccine and has suffered from it several times, I’d also suspect covid made her far more likely to contract Valley Fever. If I had a dollar for every crazy medical wacky paper she has sent me, even you might consider her a nitwit and yes I do respect ANY Americans right to choose, but like many horrific diseases of the past, sometimes it takes a COMPLETELY all in Americans for ALL effort.

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Old 07-27-2021, 10:54 AM   #6
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Spoon fed propaganda really Bruce, so the thousands of medical experts are all wrong about the efficacy, it’s safety and severe concerns we may face due to variants are all wrong. While the jury is still out on the actual source, it matters little where it came from as the death toll climbs and the affects to our economy worsens. I trust the science and the medical experts, taking anything media or politicians have to say with a grain of salt. Your kids ALL required vaccines to attend any public school, it’s how so many illnesses have been eliminated, the fact this vaccine hasn’t received official FDA approval has more to do with the process, not it’s efficacy.

So Bruce do you believe the reporting from hospitals that the majority of cases are now due to the unvaccinated is propaganda and what a political ploy to get a chip injected in your arm? Seat belts became law, that must have been hard for those thinking that’s my right to chose.

You don’t know sh*t about my crazy sister, never gets a flu vaccine and has suffered from it several times, I’d also suspect covid made her far more likely to contract Valley Fever. If I had a dollar for every crazy medical wacky paper she has sent me, even you might consider her a nitwit and yes I do respect ANY Americans right to choose, but like many horrific diseases of the past, sometimes it takes a COMPLETELY effort

Nope, not all wrong. it makes sense cases are from unvaccinated.

The science if done correctly is fine to trust, the medical experts that have an agenda I personally don't trust.
Why are some medical experts not prescribing Ivermectin when it is clearly proven very effective against Covid and speeds recovery?

"So Bruce do you believe the reporting from hospitals that the majority of cases are now due to the unvaccinated is propaganda and what a political ploy to get a chip injected in your arm?" No I don't call that propaganda. And no I don't believe the rumor mill on the chip thing because I have a brain and common sense, but if half those spreading that are joking, of course some will actually believe it unfortunately.

Seat belt laws or MC Helmet laws are understandably Government protecting you from yourself from possibly injuring yourself worse in case of an accident. You agree with a nanny state like we live in, your prerogative.

Yeah I don't know #^&#^&#^&#^&, I also didn't say I did. All I did was suggest an alternative theory as opposed to conspiracy theory crap. I'll do it again, maybe she is gullible for all I know. Maybe she cares about you like you might about her. It is frustrating for everyone. There is plenty of frustration to go around.

If I got covid and recovered, I would have figured my immune system has a better ability to fight it off and does not need a vaccination. That to me is better than the shot.

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!

It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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Old 07-27-2021, 11:14 AM   #7
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There is nothing "wrong" with them, and they are not nitwits[COLOR="Red"]sure they are. They are ignoring science and dying from it - that is the definition of "nitwit" and why I have choose to listen to the scientists who know far more about this than I do./COLOR]. They are not causing anything to go backwards. Before you judge me as being some kind of anti vacc whacko low IQ nitwit, I am not anti vacc. What I am for is the right to question things especially something that may be forced on youHow is it being forced on you? No one is forcing it on you. . I also don't have a problem with some choosing not to get the shot that is supposed to protect us from the weaponized virus China unleashed on the worldDo you have any proof of that?. That is not a conspiracy but you keep on believing NPR and any other media pushing this. It still is not FDA approved, I wonder why that is. The shot does not make all of us safeno, it makes the overwhelming majority safe and the fact that well over 95% of the people who are dying have put themselves at risk by ignoring science and instead listening to a bunch of idiots., and giving up liberty is not the right thing to do.
Your sister not getting it will not risk anything to you or anyone else100% false, it's her choice and you should respect that but complaining here or on FB makes you feel better about spreading the message maybe? She may get sick often and have a slower or weaker immune system then you but it is her choice Bob. I have had Valley fever before, it is not good and having asthma I am glad it was when I was young.
Go ahead and pontificate all you want, most of those people are making their own decisions based on actual facts LOL - you are so wrong that it is sad.not spoon fed propaganda.
It is science. Sad you discount it.
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Old 07-27-2021, 12:13 PM   #8
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And if you did come down with Covid, you might want to think twice about Ivermectin:

The efficacy of a drug being promoted by rightwing figures worldwide for treating Covid-19 is in serious doubt after a major study suggesting the treatment is effective against the virus was withdrawn due to “ethical concerns”.

The preprint study on the efficacy and safety of ivermectin – a drug used against parasites such as worms and headlice – in treating Covid-19, led by Dr Ahmed Elgazzar from Benha University in Egypt, was published on the Research Square website in November.

It claimed to be a randomised control trial, a type of study crucial in medicine because it is considered to provide the most reliable evidence on the effectiveness of interventions due to the minimal risk of confounding factors influencing the results. Elgazzar is listed as chief editor of the Benha Medical Journal, and is an editorial board member.

The study found that patients with Covid-19 treated in hospital who “received ivermectin early reported substantial recovery” and that there was “a substantial improvement and reduction in mortality rate in ivermectin treated groups” by 90%.

But the drug’s promise as a treatment for the virus is in serious doubt after the Elgazzar study was pulled from the Research Square website on Thursday “due to ethical concerns”. Research Square did not outline what those concerns were.

A medical student in London, Jack Lawrence, was among the first to identify serious concerns about the paper, leading to the retraction. He first became aware of the Elgazzar preprint when it was assigned to him by one of his lecturers for an assignment that formed part of his master’s degree. He found the introduction section of the paper appeared to have been almost entirely plagiarised.

It appeared that the authors had run entire paragraphs from press releases and websites about ivermectin and Covid-19 through a thesaurus to change key words. “Humorously, this led to them changing ‘severe acute respiratory syndrome’ to ‘extreme intense respiratory syndrome’ on one occasion,” Lawrence said.

The data also looked suspicious to Lawrence, with the raw data apparently contradicting the study protocol on several occasions.

“The authors claimed to have done the study only on 18-80 year olds, but at least three patients in the dataset were under 18,” Lawrence said.

“The authors claimed they conducted the study between the 8th of June and 20th of September 2020, however most of the patients who died were admitted into hospital and died before the 8th of June according to the raw data. The data was also terribly formatted, and includes one patient who left hospital on the non-existent date of 31/06/2020.”

There were other concerns.

“In their paper, the authors claim that four out of 100 patients died in their standard treatment group for mild and moderate Covid-19,” Lawrence said. “According to the original data, the number was 0, the same as the ivermectin treatment group. In their ivermectin treatment group for severe Covid-19, the authors claim two patients died, but the number in their raw data is four.”

Lawrence and the Guardian sent Elgazzar a comprehensive list of questions about the data, but did not receive a reply. The university’s press office also did not respond.

Lawrence contacted an Australian chronic disease epidemiologist from the University of Wollongong, Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz, and a data analyst affiliated with Linnaeus University in Sweden who reviews scientific papers for errors, Nick Brown, for help analysing the data and study results more thoroughly.

Brown created a comprehensive document uncovering numerous data errors, discrepancies and concerns, which he provided to the Guardian. According to his findings the authors had clearly repeated data between patients.

“The main error is that at least 79 of the patient records are obvious clones of other records,” Brown told the Guardian. “It’s certainly the hardest to explain away as innocent error, especially since the clones aren’t even pure copies. There are signs that they have tried to change one or two fields to make them look more natural.”

Other studies on ivermectin are still under way. In the UK, the University of Oxford is testing whether giving people with Covid-19 ivermectin prevents them ending up in hospital.

The Elgazzar study was one of the the largest and most promising showing the drug may help Covid patients, and has often been cited by proponents of the drug as evidence of its effectiveness. This is despite a peer-reviewed paper published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases in June finding ivermectin is “not a viable option to treat COVID-19 patients”.

Meyerowitz-Katz told the Guardian that “this is one of the biggest ivermectin studies out there”, and it appeared to him the data was “just totally faked”. This was concerning because two meta-analyses of ivermectin for treating Covid-19 had included the Elgazzar study in the results. A meta-analysis is a statistical analysis that combines the results of multiple scientific studies to determine what the overall scientific literature has found about a treatment or intervention.

“Because the Elgazzar study is so large, and so massively positive – showing a 90% reduction in mortality – it hugely skews the evidence in favour of ivermectin,” Meyerowitz-Katz said.

“If you remove this one study from the scientific literature, suddenly there are very few positive randomised control trials of ivermectin for Covid-19. Indeed, if you get rid of just this research, most meta-analyses that have found positive results would have their conclusions entirely reversed.”

Kyle Sheldrick, a Sydney doctor and researcher, also independently raised concerns about the paper. He found numbers the authors provided for several standard deviations – a measure of variation in a group of data points – mentioned in tables in the paper were “mathematically impossible” given the range of numbers provided in the same table.

Sheldrick said the completeness of data was further evidence suggesting possible fabrication, noting that in real-world conditions, this was almost impossible. He also identified the duplication of patient deaths and data.

Ivermectin has gained momentum throughout Latin America and India, largely based on evidence from preprint studies. In March, the World Health Organization warned against the use of ivermectin outside well designed clinical trials.

The conservative Australian MP Craig Kelly, who has also promoted the use of the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19 – despite World Health Organization advice that clinical trials show it does not prevent illness or death from the virus – has been among those promoting ivermectin. Several Indian media outlets ran stories on Kelly in the past week after he asked Uttar Pradesh to loan the state’s chief minister, Adityanath, to Australia to release ivermectin. After this story was initially published, Kelly contacted the Guardian to say he disagreed that there was no evidence that hydroxychloroquine worked, and that he stood by his views.

Lawrence said what started out as a simple university assignment had led to a comprehensive investigation into an apparent scientific fraud at a time when “there is a whole ivermectin hype … dominated by a mix of right-wing figures, anti-vaxxers and outright conspiracists”.

“Although science trends towards self-correction, something is clearly broken in a system that can allow a study as full of problems as the Elgazzar paper to run unchallenged for seven months,” he said.

“Thousands of highly educated scientists, doctors, pharmacists, and at least four major medicines regulators missed a fraud so apparent that it might as well have come with a flashing neon sign. That this all happened amid an ongoing global health crisis of epic proportions is all the more terrifying.”
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Old 07-27-2021, 12:14 PM   #9
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Go ahead and pontificate all you want, most of those people are making their own decisions based on actual facts not spoon fed propaganda.
Bruce, please, PLEASE, show me where I can find these actual facts!!! Maybe I would not be so upset with my son's decision not to get the shot. I am open to hearing and considering that side if it makes sense. But until I see FACTS, I choose to go with the science for myself, in order to feel I can go out to work and not risk bringing it home to an 85 year old who lives with us. And to allay my fear that I could easily be the one struggling to breathe if I were to contract Covid.

As for the FDA, I believe they have a time parameter to meet for general approvals, and the period from the vaccines' initial introduction to now just doesn't meet that time frame. No different, in my mind, from a manufacturer of building product being restricted from making a ten or thirty year guarantee on a two year old product line.

And I am pissed off that the subject has become politicized.... Makes me hate politics even more.

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.” – James Madison.
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Old 07-27-2021, 01:47 PM   #10
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I get it Ross

it pisses me off too, but that is what they want

Control freaks are gonna control

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!

It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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Old 07-27-2021, 02:47 PM   #11
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Darwinism at work. Survival
Of the fittest ….
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Old 07-27-2021, 03:47 PM   #12
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It sounds to me that if (god forbid ) we have another draft, 45 % of Americans will move to Canada…

I don’t really believe that but that’s how I feel about it…
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Old 07-27-2021, 03:56 PM   #13
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do whatever you feel is right. I got both shots, feel fine and just logged for 8 hours in this heat at 73 years old.

BTW, I also just bought my 6th Stihl saw. Bit the bullet and bought a MS261 pro saw. $800 with a 20" bar and I'm running a Stihl "yellow" full chisel chain. This bastard "EATS"!!!!

No boat, back in the suds.
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Old 07-27-2021, 04:29 PM   #14
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do whatever you feel is right. I got both shots, feel fine and just logged for 8 hours in this heat at 73 years old.

BTW, I also just bought my 6th Stihl saw. Bit the bullet and bought a MS261 pro saw. $800 with a 20" bar and I'm running a Stihl "yellow" full chisel chain. This bastard "EATS"!!!!
More power! My MS170 with a dime tip just won’t start, finally stopped messing with it and dropped it off, love that little guy for the detail carving. Ironically the Echo I bought from Home Depot years ago starts with two pulls every time.
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Old 07-28-2021, 07:20 AM   #15
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Unvaccinated and vaccinated people should be concerned about the rapid rise of Delta, which now makes up at least 83% of sequenced cases in the US.
The more uncontrolled spread, the more risk of even more dangerous variants. Vaccination, masks, ventilation and distancing can stop Covid, including Delta. Variants remain the wild card for the trajectory of the pandemic. Delta may not be the worst strain the virus deals us.
We can reduce the risk of other dangerous variants by vaccinating widely and also tamping down spread.
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Old 07-28-2021, 10:31 AM   #16
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"If I got covid and recovered, I would have figured my immune system has a better ability to fight it off and does not need a vaccination. That to me is better than the shot."

If you aren't vaccinated get covid and die, well I guess you will have gone down holding on to your belief that the government partnered with big pharma on this one are out to get you.

This crap isn't going away, the only way that happens is if a lot more get vaccinated or in your world get covid and survive with some sort of natural immunity. Your way if followed by the remaining unvaccinated who have access and won't get it, will just continue to kill people, allow more and possibly deadlier variants to develop, impact our economy and force more government and employer mandates on masking, you ok with your way forcing more mask mandates; isn't that taking us to a place you hate?

You may and I say may because that will be determined by your customer, have the luxury of not masking up as an independent contractor, but I'm sure I speak for a lot of people, we aren't happy the unvaccinated might be taking us backwards instead of forwards.
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Old 07-28-2021, 10:47 AM   #17
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And I would say WTF is wrong with people who freak out about those who aren't getting vaccinated. What happened to "my body my choice"?

We've had covid in my house twice now. My son and I had it first, right before pandemic shutdowns started (before anyone was even talking about it). And my wife had it in the fall. My son and I both had a bad cough, but because covid wasn't 'a thing' yet, all the pediatricians did was test for flu and suggest a humidifier in his room. Other than the fact that my wife still has no sense of smell, we made it thru just fine.

I am not anti-vax, I'm just anti-force. I fully supported all the standard (read here: "approved") vaccinations for my son. I also got whatever shot my doctor recommended when my wife was pregnant. But my wife's doctor has openly said there isn't enough data to really know for sure what effects the vaccine might have on women that are pregnant, trying to get pregnant, and/or breastfeeding.

When I was in college, I participated in medical experiments/studies for money. The more invasive, the more I got paid. Every time I had to sign a waiver stating that I understood the risks and couldn't hold the doc/hospital/school responsible in any way. And THAT is what's going on right now, except you aren't getting paid like I did.

At the end of the day, all I really want is for people to chill out and mind their own business, regardless of what side you're on. Nobody freaks out when a family member doesn't get the flu shot. Nobody freaks out and cuts off a family member when they buy a pack of cigarettes.

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Old 07-28-2021, 11:37 AM   #18
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More power! My MS170 with a dime tip just won’t start, finally stopped messing with it and dropped it off, love that little guy for the detail carving. Ironically the Echo I bought from Home Depot years ago starts with two pulls every time.
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I know a contractor who clears house lots with a 170. Good little saw.

No boat, back in the suds.
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Old 07-28-2021, 11:55 AM   #19
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And I would say WTF is wrong with people who freak out about those who aren't getting vaccinated. What happened to "my body my choice"?


At the end of the day, all I really want is for people to chill out and mind their own business, regardless of what side you're on. Nobody freaks out when a family member doesn't get the flu shot. Nobody freaks out and cuts off a family member when they buy a pack of cigarettes.
I guess you don't understand that your not getting the vaccine is putting others at risk - including people w/compromised immune systems. The unvaccinated are causing pain and economic hardship to the entire country.
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Old 07-28-2021, 02:06 PM   #20
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You don't have the right to drive drunk because your decision can endanger other people. Your decision not to get vaccinated also endangers other people. (If it just endangered you alone, I'd say fine. Do what you want. But it doesnt work that way!)
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:00 PM   #21
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Paul and Pete - I'm not out in public, I'm not part of the workforce. The only people that come to my home are family, and they're either vaccinated themselves or in the same boat as me. I wear a mask when I'm in a public place, and I spend 85% of my time in my own house.

You're right, I'm not allowed to drive drunk. But I am allowed to drink myself stupid in my own home. And I'm definitely not allowed to force you to drink just because I think it will make you more fun to be around. Again, you do your thing and I'll do mine. I'm not trying to convince anyone else to believe what I believe, I just want people to stop shoving their preferences in my face.

If I follow the same logic, shouldn't I try to force everyone to be atheist? More people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else in the history of humans. While we're at it, let's 100% stop production of all cigarettes and alcohol because those kill quite a few people every year.

Politics, religion, sexual preference, music, sports, - it's all the same to me - I don't care what you believe, as long as you don't try to force me to follow the same ways.

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Old 07-28-2021, 05:04 PM   #22
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Sounds to me like the control freaks have ginned up the notion that we should point the finger at the bad guy(the unvaccinated). So where is the science that has proven the unvaccinated are putting me at risk? I call bulshi t

You want someone to blame? get over yourselves. You know who is to blame for this pandemic and it is not Trump so deal with it, we all know who it is.
Control what you can control and move on.

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!

It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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Old 07-28-2021, 05:05 PM   #23
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That's fine but a lot of people are out and about without being vaccinated and that is the issue. And without masks.
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Old 07-28-2021, 05:32 PM   #24
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You know who is to blame for this pandemic and it is not Trump so deal with it, we all know who it is.
Pelosi? Oh wait that's the insurrection
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Old 07-28-2021, 06:12 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Slipknot View Post
Sounds to me like the control freaks have ginned up the notion that we should point the finger at the bad guy(the unvaccinated). So where is the science that has proven the unvaccinated are putting me at risk? I call bulshi t

You want someone to blame? get over yourselves. You know who is to blame for this pandemic and it is not Trump so deal with it, we all know who it is.
Control what you can control and move on.
Who here brought up Trump, oh wait it was you, who the f*ck cares where it originated, that’s for the current administration and intelligence agencies to determine and address with sanctions if needed. This is about those (with access) resisting getting vaccinated, which has been proved to be effective, continuing the spread and allowing time for new variants to develop. All this impacts every American and our economy, if you are anti vaccine from the get go or have religious objections ok, but if your listening to the BS primarily politically generated suggesting this vaccine isn’t effective, or government overreach, be ready for more of the same.
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Old 07-29-2021, 07:27 AM   #26
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Nothing in my lifetime has come close to this virus in terms of worldwide impact. So take the cigarette and alcohol argument off the table. The percentages are low, BUT the incidence of Delta, currently, is going in the wrong direction, rapidly. And my view is that we are all headed to more lockdowns, shutdowns, closures, hand outs, higher costs, hyper inflation, loss of jobs, and more governmental control, worldwide.... Because we couldn't get this virus under control when we have/had a chance... And the reason for this is a significant percentage of the American population was not able to procure the antibodies... That is how I connect the dots. Sometimes the choices made available to us are bad and worse. I am a big proponent of our freedoms. Clearly, mandating vaccination is goes against the grain of our freedoms we have grown to love and expect in America. But losing the ability to work, make a reasonable income, and keep my buying power current with the economy is going to be put at risk, again! By this virus! Just doesn't make sense to me when the tool to prevent this is available.

Maybe some of you will remember this post when we are all locked down in our houses again....

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.” – James Madison.
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Old 07-29-2021, 07:33 AM   #27
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And just so I am clear on this; I respect those who (can) choose not to get the vaccine. But the blame will be squarely on your collective non-vaccine shoulders when the shutdown and economic fallout arrives. And when that happens I will be vocal in reminding you that your choice affected my freedoms....

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.” – James Madison.
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Old 07-29-2021, 07:33 AM   #28
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Just doesn't make sense to me when the tool to prevent this is available.

Ross you hit the nail on the head and you have the hammers to do it. Want freedom to move around, work, go out to dinner or shop with these damn masks, not to mention NOT putting family, neighbors and friends at risk get the shot.
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Old 07-29-2021, 07:49 AM   #29
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Maybe the French have it right; No proof of vaccination, no access to public restaurants, grocery stores, events, anything. Stay home in quarantine and wait for the Delta pandemic of the un-vaccinated. What you gonna do then?

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.” – James Madison.
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Old 07-29-2021, 08:57 AM   #30
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What if PPP loan forgiveness were to get tied to proof of vaccination?....for all employees as well. I hear that could be put on the table.

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.” – James Madison.
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