Get ready for 2014, when Obamacare will *&^% small businesses even harder

[JohnnyD]

Medical costs are going up again, specifically for those who run small businesses and buy coverage on the individual market.

Here are some important snippets:

"Some 15 million Americans, or about 6% of non-elderly adults, currently buy coverage on the individual market."

"Just over half of the individual plans currently on the market do not meet the standards to be sold next year, when many key provisions of President Obama's Affordable Care Act kick in, according to a University of Chicago study. That's because the law sets new minimums for the basic coverage every individual health care plan must provide."

"Most individual plans sold next year, even the lowest-level "bronze" plans, are likely to charge higher premiums than today's most bare-bones individual insurance. "

"The insurance industry's trade group counters that some people may wind up with more coverage -- and higher monthly costs -- than they want. Some individuals may choose to simply pay the fine instead, said Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for America's Health Insurance Plans."


As a healthy 30 year old, at what point do I just put all of my assets into a Trust, pay the 1% fine and put the $600-800/month I would be paying for insurance coverage into a mutual fund and roll the dice. ERs are obligated to treat me regardless of ability to pay and if I have some catastrophic medical episode, merely declare bankruptcy. This is a no-brainer for any healthy 26 y/o being kicked off their parents coverage that makes more than $45k and has to find individual coverage. Pay the fine "tax" and save upwards of $5000 - and that's even *with* paying out of pocket for yearly physicals.

For the full article:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/03/news...html?hpt=hp_t2

[Jim in CT]

JD, any rational person would really take your comments to heart, because (1) you are an entrepeneaur and can speak from real experience, and (2) you are not a right-wing nut job who bashes everything Obama does.

The timing of the impacts of Obamacare could be disastrous for the Democrats in the 2014 elections. Obamacare was the reason that the GOP opened up a major can of whoop-ass on the liberals in 2010, and that was when Obamacare was just a conceptual discussion. When people start to feel actual pain, it could really help the GOP in 2014.

If someone's bottom-line is actually impacted, it's a bit harder for the liberals to say that concern for Obamacare is merely a lie perpetuated by the racists at FauxNews.

There are 21 Democrat Senators up for election in 2014, and I believe only 14 Republicans. Many of the 21 Democrats are from purple and red states who rode Obama's coat-tails to victory in 2008. In 2014, they will have to stand on their own. If Obamacare does what you think it's going to do, those Democrats may be vulnerable, to say the least.

[JohnnyD]

What's most telling to me is a Medical Insurance Industry affiliation of all people is stating (and I paraphrase) "forcing people to buy [our services] could be a bad thing."

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

There are 21 Democrat Senators up for election in 2014, and I believe only 14 Republicans. Many of the 21 Democrats are from purple and red states who rode Obama's coat-tails to victory in 2008. In 2014, they will have to stand on their own. If Obamacare does what you think it's going to do, those Democrats may be vulnerable, to say the least.

If Republicans move even slightly more moderate in the upcoming election, the Democrats are completely screwed. When you combine Obamacare, a still lacking economy and the plethora of gun control bills that have been pushed by the Left, I foresee a major butchering of Dems in all states, aside from the bluest of blue states.

[RIJIMMY]

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...582-pauls.html

[PaulS]

And you never answered me in that post, did you?

Your obsession with me is getting a little scary.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And you never answered me in that post, did you?

Your obsession with me is getting a little scary.

serioulsy, if one direct message is an obsession, you have a complex. I did not reply, I looked at past threads and could not find your responses. However I recall you questioning any criticism to Obamacare and the link I posted was very clear on impacts.

[PaulS]

There have been multiple threads where you have done that. On some I hadn't even posted in the thread and actually saw my name mentioned a week or 2 later when I first read the post.

Have I discussed the impacts of Obamacare that much? The only thread that I have extensively discussed the impacts was the one 2-3 weeks ago where someone said his premium went up like $2,500 in one year b/c of Obamacare and I showed that there was nothing implemented to that point that would account for that increase. Your link had NOTHING to do with what I had posted.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by PaulS

There have been multiple threads where you have done that. On some I hadn't even posted in the thread and actually saw my name mentioned a week or 2 later when I first read the post.
.

enjoy

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

What's most telling to me is a Medical Insurance Industry affiliation of all people is stating (and I paraphrase) "forcing people to buy [our services] could be a bad thing."


If Republicans move even slightly more moderate in the upcoming election, the Democrats are completely screwed. When you combine Obamacare, a still lacking economy and the plethora of gun control bills that have been pushed by the Left, I foresee a major butchering of Dems in all states, aside from the bluest of blue states.

"I foresee a major butchering of Dems in all states, aside from the bluest of blue states"

Such as CT and Mass, for example...

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"I foresee a major butchering of Dems in all states, aside from the bluest of blue states"

Such as CT and Mass, for example...

Depressingly... exactly.

[Raider Ronnie]

This is only going to make things go from really bad to something much much worse !
I don't know about others here but for us I've never see things so slow in my 35 years of doing the work I do.
Scary times !!!

[scottw]

the list is getting long isn't it?

Obamacare.......

Food Stamps and Unemployment check as economic stimulus...

Global Warming/Climate Change....

O would improve our image abroad....

O would cut the deficit in half......

fun to go back and read/listen to the promises and statements made that by this guy and apply them today....4 more years....


heard on the way home yesterday that the Prez has taken the incredible step of reducing his salary by 5% in a show of solidarity with furloughed workers.....you only do something like this if you truly believe that those that support you are either dazed idol worshippers or complete idiots...

I don't think the furloughed workers, for the most part, have the type of salary the O has to begin with, they're probably not enjoying multi-million dollar vacations on a routine basis at the tax payers expense, probably don't have a large expense account to go with their salary(The president also gets a cool $50,000 expense account $100,000 for travel expenses. In addition, there's $19,000 allotted for official entertaining. Although the salary is taxable, these other benefits aren't.), probably don't have all of their daily activities paid for by the taxpayer or a massive campaign warchest, their wives probably don't have a massive spending allowance and staff like the First Lady costing in the millions, don't think the Prez has a car payment or a helicopter payment or a Air Force 1 payment, electric bill, and on and on....

so lopping 5% off of his salary means exactly what again????????

[buckman]

Mitt never took a paycheck for any public service.
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[Slipknot]

great just what I need is to get porked over some more
with this wonderful economy we have it's so easy to just pass this extra cost on to the consumer right? already working harder for less money now, if I made any less money, I'd be paying the customer to do work for them If things continue to get worse and not better, I will just have to get some of that state insurance and suffer along with the rest of the poor

obamacare, ya great idea there, way to stimulate business
isn't there anybody with brains in charge of this country?

[Saltheart]

Anybody with any brains stays away from the sewer of American Politics.

[GregW]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

As a healthy 30 year old, at what point do I just put all of my assets into a Trust, pay the 1% fine and put the $600-800/month I would be paying for insurance coverage into a mutual fund and roll the dice. ERs are obligated to treat me regardless of ability to pay and if I have some catastrophic medical episode, merely declare bankruptcy. This is a no-brainer for any healthy 26 y/o being kicked off their parents coverage that makes more than $45k and has to find individual coverage. Pay the fine "tax" and save upwards of $5000 - and that's even *with* paying out of pocket for yearly physicals.

For the full article:
Most individual health insurance isn't good enough for Obamacare - Apr. 3, 2013

From what I've been told, at that young of an age you don't need a physical every year if you're healthy. I know a lot of younger people are doing/plan to do exactly what you are talking about.

[Redsoxticket]

Pay the fine and take the risk of your pay/salary being garnished until your medical bills are paid off or having a lien placed on your estate.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Redsoxticket

Pay the fine and take the risk of your pay/salary being garnished until your medical bills are paid off or having a lien placed on your estate.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It's actually quite simple math. If you make more than $70k/yr as an individual (or $120k as a family), might as well pay for insurance, as Obama's fine would be more than the yearly cost for insurance. Considering that the "penalty" increases over time from the initial 1% fine, that $70k will very quickly become under $50k. Yet, assistance to cover costs doesn't start unless you make under $45k.

This isn't a question of "what to do". It's an issue of costs increasing significantly (as widely predicted, mind you) while Obama promised "a decrease of $2500/yr in family medical costs".

It's almost like Obama and the Democrats wake up each morning and go "hmmm... how can we further force more government impositions onto the individual while also further #^&#^&#^&#^&ing over the economy in the process."

[Redsoxticket]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

It's actually quite simple math. If you make more than $70k/yr as an individual (or $120k as a family), might as well pay for insurance, as Obama's fine would be more than the yearly cost for insurance. Considering that the "penalty" increases over time from the initial 1% fine, that $70k will very quickly become under $50k. Yet, assistance to cover costs doesn't start unless you make under $45k.

This isn't a question of "what to do". It's an issue of costs increasing significantly (as widely predicted, mind you) while Obama promised "a decrease of $2500/yr in family medical costs".

It's almost like Obama and the Democrats wake up each morning and go "hmmm... how can we further force more government impositions onto the individual while also further #^&#^&#^&#^&ing over the economy in the process."

The penalty for not having insurance in Massachusetts is much lower then you stated for that income bracket. The attached chart shows the penalty for all incomes and the max penalty for incomes above 300 percent poverty is about $105 per month. If you can find insurance less then that you have a good plan. This is assuming that the Obama plan will be the same as MA which in my opinion it will not be very far off.
My next post will show the penalty amounts, can't upload via the phone
[IMG][/IMG]

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

It's actually quite simple math.
It's almost like Obama and the Democrats wake up each morning and go "hmmm... how can we further force more government impositions onto the individual while also further #^&#^&#^&#^&ing over the economy in the process."

right...and so you are left with the question of whether these people who are supposed to be really smart(just ask them, and any of their supporters).....are somehow unaware of the damage that is being caused....or...is this being done purposefully?....and just how do you deal with people like this who are in power?

the funding mechanism and lynch pin for this was supposed to be the exchanges...this is where you were going to go when you employer's or private plan became unaffordable

another giant government bureaucracy disaster


"The Obama administration now says a special system of exchanges designed to make it easier for small businesses to provide insurance will be delayed an entire year -- to 2015.

"Lots of small businesses struggle with providing insurance for their workers so this was supposed to facilitate it and make it easier for small business to do this," said Jim Capretta of the Ethics and Public Policy Center. "It was a huge portion of the sale job. When they passed the law in 2010 there were many senators and members of Congress who were saying 'I am doing this because it's going to help small businesses.'"

probably the same senators and members of congress that are also pushing to boost the minimum wage

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Redsoxticket

The penalty for not having insurance in Massachusetts is much lower then you stated for that income bracket.

You're right but we aren't talking about MA. My post is based on Obamacare's 2014 penalty being 1% in 2014, 2% for 2015 and 2.5% in 2016.

One item I did leave out is that the penalty cannot be higher than the average cost of the Bronze Plan. Something I haven't looked at is what types of deductibles and coverage comes with the Bronze Plan.

Now, if you consider that the penalty *doubles* in 2015, it looks like Obamacare takes into consideration Obama's promise of "cheaper health care" was laughable - as costs are projected to continue to soar.

My next post will show the penalty amounts, can't upload via the phone.

Look forward to it. It'll save me from having to do a bunch of annoying math if you have a "cheat-sheet".

[Redsoxticket]

The cheat sheet was added to post #19 however it is for the MA plan not Obama.
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[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Redsoxticket

The cheat sheet was added to post #19 however it is for the MA plan not Obama.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Ah, was hoping for a cheat sheet of Obamacare, as the penalty structure is different.